Metroid DS : With AND without stylus
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Squeak said:Paul said:Don't ever do that again if you really care about the screen!
How can you be sure that a hard speck, or grain of sand isn't somewhere in the fabric? And cotton or whatever your shirt is made of isn’t exactly the gentlest thing to rub a screen with. Buy one of those special cloths for polishing lenses, that will do the job.
At that point I had nothing to lose.
I rarely see more choice within a game as a bad idea, and on the whole the driving point of the DS is the dual screen concept, not the touch-screen capabilities of the lower one. (My own concerns as to the direction of the DS were mentioned long before I knew of touch-screen capabilities.)
What might be discouraging is if developers are worried about bringing possible harm to the screen and if, indeed, from a technical sense the screen is not resiliant enough to take it. Getting them started on that path will likely lead to less use and more limited usage of it when they do. If they are approaching it from a "some gamers might find it weird and disconcerting, or don't feel like whipping out and using a stylus in some situations, so we should give them the option" then this is a Good Thing(TM). In this case it would be just about giving players more options, and not even have wry marketing uses. (Think FF:CC) I don't like it when button configurations are force on me either, so why would I like having a whole new imput device forced instead? If a game can't be played without it that's one thing... If the game just requires a few tweaks, tweak it!
Some maneuvers deserve a solid drubbing right now, though. Scratching a stylus back and forth as fast as possible?! How could ANYTHING bad happen from that?
What might be discouraging is if developers are worried about bringing possible harm to the screen and if, indeed, from a technical sense the screen is not resiliant enough to take it. Getting them started on that path will likely lead to less use and more limited usage of it when they do. If they are approaching it from a "some gamers might find it weird and disconcerting, or don't feel like whipping out and using a stylus in some situations, so we should give them the option" then this is a Good Thing(TM). In this case it would be just about giving players more options, and not even have wry marketing uses. (Think FF:CC) I don't like it when button configurations are force on me either, so why would I like having a whole new imput device forced instead? If a game can't be played without it that's one thing... If the game just requires a few tweaks, tweak it!
Some maneuvers deserve a solid drubbing right now, though. Scratching a stylus back and forth as fast as possible?! How could ANYTHING bad happen from that?
Jov
No nobody is exactly bashing Nintendo, I did actually intend a smillie in my post.. sorry. Still just seems to be some rather over the top things being said here.
Anyway two points:
1: Nintendo can't actually force developers to use every feature of DS, nor should they want to. Developers have been given new tools and most will want to use them. For the developers who don't particularly want to think up new idea's with this tech the DS userbase will be the real driving force to make them do so. If they want to sell there games on DS they'd better make some use of the hardware or, unless its a great game, people simply won't buy it.
2: I've seen quite a few video's of the DS in action. I've seen Sonic DS being played. In the video a guy was basically scribbling as fast as he could from one side of the screen to the other with the stylus. He wasn't being careful, he was just scribbling like mad. Being a PDA owner myself I cringed. Yet the DS screen didn't have a scatch on it after minutes of this. Another person then had a go, no scratching. I wonder how many others must have had goes on the game in that session, yet not a single journalist mentioned scratched screens. I almost wonder if Sonic DS wasn't just made to show DS's graphical power, but also to show how tough the screen really is. I mean its basically the most careless thing you can do to a touch screen that could possibly be integrated into a tech demo No actual game is going to require anything even close to as bad as scribbling from side to side in a straight line as fast as possible.
I remember hearing somewhere Nintendo talking about some sort of extra tough layer they'd put onto the touch screen. It apears that whatever that is it does the trick for protecting the screen from scratches.
No nobody is exactly bashing Nintendo, I did actually intend a smillie in my post.. sorry. Still just seems to be some rather over the top things being said here.
Anyway two points:
1: Nintendo can't actually force developers to use every feature of DS, nor should they want to. Developers have been given new tools and most will want to use them. For the developers who don't particularly want to think up new idea's with this tech the DS userbase will be the real driving force to make them do so. If they want to sell there games on DS they'd better make some use of the hardware or, unless its a great game, people simply won't buy it.
2: I've seen quite a few video's of the DS in action. I've seen Sonic DS being played. In the video a guy was basically scribbling as fast as he could from one side of the screen to the other with the stylus. He wasn't being careful, he was just scribbling like mad. Being a PDA owner myself I cringed. Yet the DS screen didn't have a scatch on it after minutes of this. Another person then had a go, no scratching. I wonder how many others must have had goes on the game in that session, yet not a single journalist mentioned scratched screens. I almost wonder if Sonic DS wasn't just made to show DS's graphical power, but also to show how tough the screen really is. I mean its basically the most careless thing you can do to a touch screen that could possibly be integrated into a tech demo
No actual game is going to require anything even close to as bad as scribbling from side to side in a straight line as fast as possible.I remember hearing somewhere Nintendo talking about some sort of extra tough layer they'd put onto the touch screen. It apears that whatever that is it does the trick for protecting the screen from scratches.
<Snip> Agree with #1.
Well I wish they would have put this on the GBA/GBA-SP then. I'm surprised that Nintendo has the technology/money to do this and Palm, etc. didn't do this for their much more expensive PDAs. In otherwords, until we see it in action I'm skeptical that this exists (and a demo you watched isn't good enough proof imo) because this has been a problem for years and yet Nintendo is going to solve it? But hey, who knows, right?
Do you have a link where Nintendo mentions this?
I also don't think the demo is a good enough example of the "average" wear and tear a DS unit would undergo, i.e. 8 hours a day on a single unit over 3 days is still just a total of 24 hours of use. Who knows if they were replacing/rotating units as well? (I'm sure they weren't "dying" but the point is it wasn't any sort of controlled experiment).
If the screen was that good, you'd think Nintendo would be hyping it up, "Here's a demo unit that has undergone hundreds of hours of repeated use and not a scratch exists!". Yet there is none so I must be right - the lesson being a negative (lack of a reviewer mentioning scratches or lack of Nintendo proclaiming a scratchless screen) does not prove a positive (that the screen is tough or that I'm right - though technically I could be using a negative to prove a negative).
Teasy said:
Well I wish they would have put this on the GBA/GBA-SP then. I'm surprised that Nintendo has the technology/money to do this and Palm, etc. didn't do this for their much more expensive PDAs. In otherwords, until we see it in action I'm skeptical that this exists (and a demo you watched isn't good enough proof imo) because this has been a problem for years and yet Nintendo is going to solve it? But hey, who knows, right?
Do you have a link where Nintendo mentions this?
I also don't think the demo is a good enough example of the "average" wear and tear a DS unit would undergo, i.e. 8 hours a day on a single unit over 3 days is still just a total of 24 hours of use. Who knows if they were replacing/rotating units as well? (I'm sure they weren't "dying" but the point is it wasn't any sort of controlled experiment).
If the screen was that good, you'd think Nintendo would be hyping it up, "Here's a demo unit that has undergone hundreds of hours of repeated use and not a scratch exists!". Yet there is none so I must be right - the lesson being a negative (lack of a reviewer mentioning scratches or lack of Nintendo proclaiming a scratchless screen) does not prove a positive (that the screen is tough or that I'm right - though technically I could be using a negative to prove a negative).
Teasy
#1 - Yep, it never crossed my mind Nintendo would restrict devs in their design/innovation. I was simply rebutting LB's reaction to this topic. As most mentioned its always good to have more options.
#2 - The clips I've seen showing off the DS was in a poor ambient light level room (as intended) and most of the light was emitted from the DS. It’s a lot harder to see scratches on the screen under this condition. Have a bit of sun light on the screen and scratches will be very obvious.
At the end of the day, if Nintendo made the touch screen scratch resistant, then great. Otherwise money will go to some 3rd party producing the protectors for the DS.
Slightly off topic, but on topic...
My 1st impression after seeing some screens of MP: Hunters was the dev was using the Cube's MP to fudge what to be expected. After seeing the E3 clip it looks good and now the DS is a lot more attractive. Damn, I might have to shorten the service life of my SP (got it last Xmas).
#1 - Yep, it never crossed my mind Nintendo would restrict devs in their design/innovation. I was simply rebutting LB's reaction to this topic. As most mentioned its always good to have more options.
#2 - The clips I've seen showing off the DS was in a poor ambient light level room (as intended) and most of the light was emitted from the DS. It’s a lot harder to see scratches on the screen under this condition. Have a bit of sun light on the screen and scratches will be very obvious.
At the end of the day, if Nintendo made the touch screen scratch resistant, then great. Otherwise money will go to some 3rd party producing the protectors for the DS.
Slightly off topic, but on topic...
My 1st impression after seeing some screens of MP: Hunters was the dev was using the Cube's MP to fudge what to be expected. After seeing the E3 clip it looks good and now the DS is a lot more attractive. Damn, I might have to shorten the service life of my SP (got it last Xmas).
Ty
I don't know perhaps the size of the screen has something to do with it (its only 3 inches for DS)? Or maybe Palm just don't need it enough. After all Palm don't expect kids to be playing games on there systems. Nintendo know DS will be used not just to play lots of games with a stylus, but by kids playing games with a stylus. As you can tell I'm just throwing up wild guesses here. By all means be skeptical, I'm still slightly skeptical myself. It just seems to me that Sonic DS is a pretty extreme test of the touch screen. I can't see any games or any other normal uses of the touch screen that will be anywhere near as likely to cause scratches. I know ware and tear over time is the ultimate test. But I think if DS's touch screen can remain unscathed after even 30 minutes of that sort of punishment (never mind the length each showing lasted.. which was a few hours I think) then that's definitely impressive and very encouraging as far as scratch resistance goes.
Why aren't Nintendo hyping the toughness of the touch screen and giving it the old Daz challenge?..)) I don't know. I am sure, though, that if any journalist saw scratches on the screen it would be mentioned. Because wether or not the screen scratches will be high on any reporters list of questions. I also think that if people were reporting it then it would spread accross the net pretty quickly "ooh DS is crap its screen scratches see quote below". So at least its pretty certain that DS can, at the very worst, take a few hours of crazy fevered scribbling As I said that's already very encouraging IMO.
P.S. no I can't remember where I saw the comment ATM. Hopefully I'll remember sooner or later, or someone else might have seen it.
I don't know perhaps the size of the screen has something to do with it (its only 3 inches for DS)? Or maybe Palm just don't need it enough. After all Palm don't expect kids to be playing games on there systems. Nintendo know DS will be used not just to play lots of games with a stylus, but by kids playing games with a stylus. As you can tell I'm just throwing up wild guesses here. By all means be skeptical, I'm still slightly skeptical myself. It just seems to me that Sonic DS is a pretty extreme test of the touch screen. I can't see any games or any other normal uses of the touch screen that will be anywhere near as likely to cause scratches. I know ware and tear over time is the ultimate test. But I think if DS's touch screen can remain unscathed after even 30 minutes of that sort of punishment (never mind the length each showing lasted.. which was a few hours I think) then that's definitely impressive and very encouraging as far as scratch resistance goes.
Why aren't Nintendo hyping the toughness of the touch screen and giving it the old Daz challenge?..
)) I don't know. I am sure, though, that if any journalist saw scratches on the screen it would be mentioned. Because wether or not the screen scratches will be high on any reporters list of questions. I also think that if people were reporting it then it would spread accross the net pretty quickly "ooh DS is crap its screen scratches see quote below". So at least its pretty certain that DS can, at the very worst, take a few hours of crazy fevered scribbling As I said that's already very encouraging IMO.P.S. no I can't remember where I saw the comment ATM. Hopefully I'll remember sooner or later, or someone else might have seen it.
Oh yes, because over-generalizing is the way to go... Some are just worried that any game that can fall back to non-stylus control would do so. It could be either a good thing or a bad thing, however... All depends on how the developer handles it.
Some are just worried that any game that can fall back to non-stylus control would do so. It could be either a good thing or a bad thing, however... All depends on how the developer handles it.PC-Engine said:
cthellis42 said:Oh yes, because over-generalizing is the way to go...
I'm going to go with "People who believe waffling on a compelling feature from AAA titles might be setting the wrong example for other companies" for $400, Alex.
Seriously, if you're going to debate the matter at hand, debate the matter not nitpick the premise which, although it's really easy to follow, you can pretend is silly and roll your eyes at.
Seriously, if you're going to debate the matter at hand, debate the matter not nitpick the premise which, although it's really easy to follow, you can pretend is silly and roll your eyes at.
Ty said:
At least when someone asks for recommendations for a good $400-$500 tv I don't go off into La-La land and jerk off to a $2000 super SONY tv.
Anyway I don't see how ONE game that CAN be played the traditional way makes it a bad influence. It's not like you can play that Pacman game without the stylus/touchscreen. Nintendo went the Cellshaded route too, but I don't see a sh*tload of of Cell shaded games from 3rd parties.
The stylus, as I see it, while a DS-specific feature, is far from being the main feature of MP: Hunters. This game, specifically, is about showing off the DS 3D and multiplayer, the stylus and the map on the second screen are just nice additions. At least the last two were definitely not the features that make me want it. So it's all good, as long as Nintendo does push those in other games.
