Matrox & Selective Reviewing?

[Ichneumon]

Regarding the whole quack mess... I had at least 4 conversations with Dave Nalasco on that issue and wrote a lengthy editorial about it at Rage3D. However, with what I have learned since then, I can safely say that Dave did not have all the info when he said what he said about ATI purposely doing what they did.

The reason he was saying that was because indeed... ATI did have Quake3 Engine specific code paths in their drivers. However the reduced IQ due to that code path in that one driver set was a bug. The reduced IQ was not intentional, and has been noted many, many time since then, the next driver set maintained the enhanced performance from the Q3 code path, without reducing texture detail.

ATI was incredibly poorly equipped to deal with the quake/quack issue from a PR standpoint... and while I think a lot of Dave and crew at ATI that was in constant contact with Many web sites, they should have figured out what was going on before they made statements about what was actually going on.

 

[Doomtrooper]

I'm sorry because you run a hardware site doesn't mean you automatically get a review card, especially a site that has a past history of pathetic reviews and 'conspiracy theories'.

Kyle did do wrong because the whining moron couldn't win over a PR guy on the phone he thought as 'usual' I will use the power approach and post this on the front page. How about the emails with the Inquirer or Tom Pabst being posted on the front page..as If we really care Kyle

If I was Matrox I would send him a card...I'd send him a Matrox Mystique and tell him to have fun

 

[John Reynolds]

Re: Double standards

If it were NV being "selective" with review samples, most of you guys would roast them for that.

Nvidia can be "selective" with review samples. Ask when the last time a B3D staff member received a review sample directly from Nvidia.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Scare Tatics ??

Getting better...

3Dchipset says it well....

I stumbled acrossed this site that I couldn't believe would basically in some aspects use scare tactics to get a product to review from a company. Would I inform all my viewers that a company wasn't going to send us a review unit first with other top end sites? Hell no... I would simply state that our so and so review is forthcoming. Man... Somebodies Ego needs some deflating before they get caught in a door jam.

In closing, I did let Matrox know that we would be publicly commenting on this situation and it garnered a “clean-upâ€￾ phone call from them as I was putting the final edit on this article. Matrox committed to shipping a Parhelia card to us tomorrow that we could post a preview on next Tuesday. They also explained that their reasoning for not sending us a first-round review sample was based on incomplete information and apparently the wrong message was conveyed to us on the testing issue.

Man... If I was Matrox I would say, "You get one when we feel like you get one". I wouldn't of backed down, but that's just me. You should feel honored to receive a product for review. Not demand one because you think you should get one like all the others. Sad... Just plain ole sad...

http://www.3dchipset.com/news.shtml#newsitem1024445354,75107,

 

[Matt Burris]

Glad we could agree on something Althornin. Reading what 3DChipset said, "scare tactics", really does hit the nail on the head. It's not the first time Kyle used his widely popular site as a bullying tool to get what he wants. When I first posted this thread, I didn't notice that end part with the final edit, but with that update, it really makes sense. An ego got broke, and then regained via that tactic.

In the end, I just hope the reviews are just that ... reviews, and not overhyped previews focusing on just the strengths, and not the weaknesses. Since Matrox more than likely won't send me a review sample, I'll end up buying a retail card if I want the card.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

In the end, I just hope the reviews are just that ... reviews, and not overhyped previews focusing on just the strengths, and not the weaknesses.

Agreed. And I would hope that you could see Matrox's perspective: that they also want reviews...and not just sensationalistic previews focusing on just the weaknesses.

If Matrox believes that's what Hard OCP has the tendency to do, then they are doing everyone a service by not sending him a card.

Just because Matrox felt that Hard OCP wasn't "worthy" of the first round of samples, DOESN'T MEAN, as much as Kyle would have you believe, that the sites that DID get one, are only those that will give glowing, rather than FAIR reviews.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

If Matrox believes that's what Hard OCP has the tendency to do, then they are doing everyone a service by not sending him a card.

But this is a suicidal approach. Would Matrox rather have Kyle writing negative editorials for a week, then be in a foul mood when reviewing the production cards? Like it or not, HardOCP is a reasonably popular site.

The only successful strategy is to grin insanely, be as nice as possible to Anand, Tom, and Kyle, and hope for the best. What everyone else (on the net) says in their reviews is largely irrelevant, from a commercial perspective. No matter how nice you are, one or more of them may temporarily turn on you, but that's uncontrollable.

 

[Matt Burris]

The only successful strategy is to grin insanely, be as nice as possible to Anand, Tom, and Kyle, and hope for the best. What everyone else (on the net) says in their reviews is largely irrelevant, from a commercial perspective. No matter how nice you are, one or more of them may temporarily turn on you, but that's uncontrollable.

Well in that case, Matrox are more than welcome to send the card to me. Just so long as they insert $20,000 into my bank account when they do.

Oh god, I'm going to get flamed for this one. I can already see Doomtrooper moving in for the kill.

Although I do think that if HardOCP turns on Matrox, Tom's Hardware wouldn't for the world. Tom would like nothing more than to gloat.

 

[Doomtrooper]

I think you give review websites far too much credit, 96% of most graphic card consumers don't even know what Hardocp is or Anand or Beyond3D

 

[Joe DeFuria]

But this is a suicidal approach. Would Matrox rather have Kyle writing negative editorials for a week, then be in a foul mood when reviewing the production cards?

A couple reasons off the top of my head reasons:
1) First impressions are important. If a handful of "FAIR" reviews come out one day, and then weeks later a "bad" review comes out, is a much better situation to be in than having the "bad" review come out at the same time.

2) Some of Matrox's concerns may have to do with the "non final" version of the drivers, and how Kyle would handle any "issues" found in them. (Blow out of proportion for sensationalism, or treat fairly.) The later that Kyle gets a board in his hands, the more issues Matrox has to address before hand.

The only successful strategy is to grin insanely and be as nice as possible to Anand, Tom, and Kyle, and hope for the best.

Disagree. The right strategy for REVIEW sites is to be as fair to the hardware vendors and products as possible. That will give them the best chance at getting first crack at new hardware.

 

[Doomtrooper]

The only successful strategy is to grin insanely, be as nice as possible to Anand, Tom, and Kyle, and hope for the best. What everyone else (on the net) says in their reviews is largely irrelevant, from a commercial perspective. No matter how nice you are, one or more of them may temporarily turn on you, but that's uncontrollable.

Well in that case, Matrox are more than welcome to send the card to me. Just so long as they insert $20,000 into my bank account when they do.

Oh god, I'm going to get flamed for this one. I can already see Doomtrooper moving in for the kill.

Although I do think that if HardOCP turns on Matrox, Tom's Hardware wouldn't for the world. Tom would like nothing more than to gloat.

I would never do that ..really

 

[Oompa Loompa]

1) First impressions are important. If a handful of "FAIR" reviews come out one day, and then weeks later a "bad" review comes out, is a much better situation to be in than having the "bad" review come out at the same time.

My model presupposes that the stated opinion of key sites matters more than anything else, including timing. The post-NDA flood of reviews tends to overwhelm, leaving customers to rely upon one or two (of a very limited pool of) trusted sources.

2) Some of Matrox's concerns may have to do with the "non final" version of the drivers, and how Kyle would handle any "issues" found in them. (Blow out of proportion for sensationalism, or treat fairly.)

This is a valid concern, and one need look no farther than Tom's treatment of S3's Savage3D drivers 3 months before hardware availability for evidence. In this case, however, I find it hard to believe that the drivers will change dramatically in ~14 days.

The right strategy for REVIEW sites is to be as fair to the hardware vendors and products as possible. That will give them the best chance at getting first crack at new hardware.

No argument, from a "high road" perspective, but there are very few sites that have a measurable consumer impact. That gives them a certain amount of power; one need look no further than the frantic response of Matrox's PR crew to Kyle's menacing noises to see that.

The simple fact is that each of the key sites is, to varying degrees, ego driven. Egos need stroking, and this is relatively inexpensive from a cost-benefit perspective. (For the literal-minded: no, I am not suggesting that anyone is bribed)

 

[dksuiko]

Sorry, but I have to disagree.

The reality of the situation is that Matrox, being gone from the 3D industry for as long as they were, has fallen into a state of euphoria after finally releasing a new chipset. Though a state of euphoria may be a positive reinforcement in acting openly, Matrox has been suffering from a case of a sexual insecurity that has undoubtedly been caused after having shown their previous largest offering, headcasting technology - only to have been laughed at as it was not large at all, but instead - incredibly small.

Further analysis may reveal a proper solution for the situation, but it would be wise to wait for the euphoria to pass as it can possibly skew our views of Matrox. In any case, the fact that they are not willing to share themselves and their videocards with HardOCP is, without a doubt, strong proof of their heightened sense of sexual insecurity and should be taken into consideration when electing to review their products. </Freud>

 

[Ailuros]

Excuse me dksuiko, is Parhelia battery powered? With all that sexual undercurrent floating around in your post I thought for a minute that Parhelia isn't a vga............ *ahem*

 

[dksuiko]

 

[Randell]

Rather than concentrate on perceived bias at [H] isn't the issue the qulaity and depth of the review? Some of there recent reviews have been quite good, a bit more than 3dmark & quake3, but overall that is the impression that [H] (specificially Kyle maybe) give, i.e. pure framerate is more important than IQ.

So Matrox should be looking for sites that give it a fair analysis where Matrox (and say most of this board) beleive card reviews should be going anyway. That is performance concerns with IQ on (AA, anistropic filtering), driver stability &/or quirks, 2d & 3d clarity at high resolutions, TV-out quality, DVD playback quality and driver/DVD software capability.

This surely would rule out [H] anyway regardless of whether you beleive he has an agenda.

 

[Matt Burris]

Early morning browsing with Starbucks frappucino almost makes my browser looks 3D. I was surfing around ShackNews and saw this in the comments that Kyle posted:

#45, Actaully I was simply posting the facts. If you want to be dramatic about it, which you are, that is certainly your right. I have been told lots of things by VidCard companies, and "We are not sending you a card because you test too harshly" is a new one on me.

Heh, too harshly. It may be the frappie, but I find that pretty funny. It's post #72 here: http://www.shacknews.com/funk.y?comments=21052+page=2

Here's more of what Kyle said, in post #132:

I spent a long time on the phone with the Matrox rep and he explained why they did not want us testing their card. I then tell them via email that I will be doing an article on this issue. THEN I get a call back saying that what we discussed previously was all a misunderstanding. It was NOT a misunderstanding, Matrox was very aware of what they were saying and what they meant.

So when they find out we are going to go public, they suddenly find cards we can test and have no issues with it. All a big mistake?

At this point I simply think we were going to get shipped a "cherry picked" card that would perform under our testing circumstances and very likely not show us the true potential of the card.

Simply put the only silly mistake Matrox made was telling the truth about why they were not sending a card.

 

[MikeC]

Re: Double standards

Nvidia can be "selective" with review samples. Ask when the last time a B3D staff member received a review sample directly from Nvidia.

Your probably right and think they are making a mistake by not including Beyond3D in the mix. There are a only a handful of reviews I trust which include those at Beyond3D. Beyond3D also goes above and beyond the typical graphics cards reviews by touching on the technical aspects and including interviews from the people behind the technology.

Although I mention as many graphics card reviews at nV News as possible, I don't read many of them. I've always felt that those supplying graphics cards for review should keep up with the content in those reviews and grade their quality.

 

[jb]

I dont find that the actual reviews at HardOCP is the problem. Just they way the handle issues with new video cards.

 

[Doomtrooper]

I have a real big problem with their reviews, I find the games tested in this review a complete joke...and done by none other than Kyle himself

1) Dronez...Nvidia tech demo
2) Aquamark...Nvidia Tech Demo
3) Quake 3 A...need I say more


http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Mjc0

Zetha gameZ

In over two years, the team developed a proprietary 3D Technology to reach an outstanding quality in realtime rendering; this technology is based on the OpenGL API to fully exploit the latest hardware technolgies and especially nVidia's nFiniteFX

Oops I forgot the benchmark that doesn't mean anything anymore..3Dmark 2001 SE (Splash Screen Edition)