Mainstream Video Quality Shootout

Discussion in 'PC Hardware, Software and Displays' started by Arty, Dec 7, 2005.

  1. Geo

    Geo Mostly Harmless
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    It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas, everywhere you go. . . err, that is, I'm now expecting "those drivers" before too long. And not expecting to see 7600 until January. But early Feb for the rematch would work for me. Tho I think Alan is so genuinely excited by all this stuff (which I always love to see) that I wouldn't be overly surprised if he gives us at least a little peak at what he's found as soon as he gets his mitts on the new drivers.
     
  2. Murakami

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    I've already read those reviews (only Anand's one is a real review...:roll: ), they're too much old; if nVidia didn't fix this in driver i don't understand why their support page lists NV40 AGP as "broken" and his PCI-E counterpart (NV45) as "fully functional"...it's a non-sense (let's list as "broken" or "fully functional" both! :lol: ).
    However, if the "broken part" it's only the WMV9 acceleration i can tolerate this one, cause the image quality is the same as newer chips.
     
  3. Deathlike2

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    Well, this info is old because this issue was already revealed "that much time ago"... this is not driver fixable.. that's for sure. I don't like Anandtech for information.. but this info was pretty available for all major websites.. so I don't see the point in your response.

    The G70, NV41 (6600 AGP), NV43 (6600 PCI-E), 6800 vanilla, and NV42 (6800GS) is not affected by this issue (the AGP/PCI-E version has no significance in the matter). The issue is just over the CPU utilzation (since it cannot be done on the video card, it will be done over the CPU)... there should be no image quality differences in the first place...

    http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=530&st=0
    If you're not into looking into Anandtech's info.. there's always NVidia's forums...
     
    #23 Deathlike2, Dec 10, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2005
  4. Murakami

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    Your post does not explain why nVidia lists, in his PureVideo support page, NV40 as "broken" and NV45 as "fully functional": please, explain me that thing, not NV41, 42, 43 and so on...if you're right, nVidia keeps on lying, no excuse or reading between the lines.
    I would like to see new tests made with new drivers, new PureVideo decoder and 6600 GT PCI-E versus 6800 GT PCI-E (not AGP)...:evil:
     
    #24 Murakami, Dec 10, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2005
  5. Deathlike2

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    I didn't see the link... apparently NVidia made a mistake in their listing..

    NV40 (Geforce 6800 Ultra/GT AGP) and NV45 (Geforce 6800 Ultra/GT PCI-E) are the hardware with the bug... I'll cut them a "little slack" as their tables are huge.. though it should be their job to get the info correct.

    Did I not say that new drivers won't fix the FLAW in the hardware? You will not get any performance benefits if the hardware is not able to support it...
     
    #25 Deathlike2, Dec 10, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2005
  6. Skrying

    Skrying S K R Y I N G
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    Nv40 covers 6800 Ultra, 6800 GT and the 6800 vanilla. All three of those are effected, its that simple. Nv45 is possibly different than Nv40 (or is it Nv40 with an outside of the core bridge?) but if its just a bridge to PCIe and not in the core then the flaw is still there.
     
  7. Deathlike2

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    6800 vanilla is not affected... for whatever the reason...

    The NV45 is just an NV40 that uses a different slot.. that's really all it is. (I don't know/care whether it uses the AGP->PCI-E bridge, but I haven't seen anything about this that has affected benchmarks).
     
  8. Skrying

    Skrying S K R Y I N G
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    Uhh, BS. Yes it is too, or else my 6800 (two now, I just got an RMA back) is to affected. What would make it special? Its Nv40, what would make the vanilla 6800s special?

    Also, the fact that either Nv45 uses a bridge or not is important to this arguement, not about any type of performance benchmarks. If its a bridge then I highly doubt they changed anything in the core to fix this flaw. If its not a bridge then its highly likely they did fix this probably in the core.
     
    #28 Skrying, Dec 10, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2005
  9. Deathlike2

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    Well, assuming you are using a 6800 vanilla, the reason I recall why it is not affected was that it was made AFTER the 6800GT/Ultra (the high end stuff comes out first of course)..

    It doesn't really matter though... there's always some huge flaw that never seems to get enough attention.

    FX - poor PS2 performance
    6800 - borked WMV 9 decode acceleration
    7800 - shimmering sensitive
     
  10. Murakami

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    This is the link, already posted in this very thread; you already said that new drivers won't fix the flaw in the hardware, but you have to prove that a flaw exists, because nVidia says that NV45 video processor is fully functional and the only review that seems to deny this claim is very old.
    Another link for you: Although this chip is labelled as NV45, other than the on-package integrated bridge chip, it’s not clear what changes are in the chip. NVIDIA suggest there are some improvements... :twisted:
     
    #30 Murakami, Dec 10, 2005
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  11. no-X

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    6800 vanilla can use different cores. NV40/45 are broken, NV41/42 not.
     
  12. Murakami

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    Prove that NV45 are broken, please, and i'll thank you.
     
  13. Skrying

    Skrying S K R Y I N G
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    I thought Nv41 and Nv42 were only used on the PCIe versions? Which from my understanding are not borked. Nv40 was used for the AGP versions correct?
     
  14. no-X

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  15. Arty

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    Initial shipments of 6800 vanilla were NV40 (binned cores) that didnt have 4 working quads, hence there was 50-50 chance of unlocking them.

    Later on Nvidia used NV41 for the same.
     
  16. Skrying

    Skrying S K R Y I N G
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    Hmm, weird. I just go a RMA back from BFG (5 day RMA at that... amazing service), its not my old one fixed or anything, totally different heatsink and slightly different positioning of molex connector. But this one still works just fine, maybe BFG only ordered Nv40s so they could easily do the OC?
     
  17. Deathlike2

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    It doesn't have to be proven when every major website you can think of has repeated this major bit of info.. I'm not wasting my time repeating myself when a quick google search can answer your question..

    One other thing..

    Italics highlight the quoted, bold highlight the MOST IMPORTANT part of Dave's statement.

    In any case, there's nothing particularly special about the NV45 (PCI-E version of the NV40). If you had paid any attention to all the websites providing the news, you would have already know this to be fact.. especially when some have quoted NVidia the information necessary to figure out what was going on.

    I don't understand why this "old news" is that special.. given that this has been repeated everywhere... the only issue is probably NVidia's site documenting the info incorrectly (it was correct prior to the G70).
     
    #37 Deathlike2, Dec 11, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2005
  18. Murakami

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    Every major website i can think of were speculating, not proving anything with real tests.
    In your opinion, the most important part of Dave's statement is "it may be the case"...my english is basic but "it may be the case" means only a possibility, whereas nVidia suggests "there are some improvements" and his support page lists NV45 as supporting WMV9 decode acceleration...maybe the improvements are exactly in video processor.
    I'm sorry, but i'll stay with nVidia until someone can prove that his statement is plain wrong; this "old news" is so special for me because i bought a 6800 GT PCI-E exactly for his video processor... :???:
    I'm going to send a mail to nVidia with this question... :twisted:
    EDIT: i'm not able to find a valid e-mail address... :cry:
     
    #38 Murakami, Dec 11, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2005
  19. Deathlike2

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    Ugh..if you even READ the Anandtech link I posted.. it does exactly what you were asking for... though the problem is that they did not specify (it's late, so I didn't thoroughly check) which video card (PCI-E or AGP version) they used for testing.

    Do yourself a favor.. scour the NVidia and NVNews forums and see what people are saying about Purevideo support in the PCI-Express versions of the 6800 (NV45)... then you will understand the truth of the matter. Your blind ignorance in not looking through forums (let alone the "speculation" as you call it, especially when reported by reputable sources) to at least see what other people have to say in the matter... that's all I will ask you to do..
     
  20. Murakami

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    I'm tired to argue with you, our points of view are opposite: i'm not interested in forums' talk (that i've already read), speculation or something like that...i'm searching for a proof, an official statement, because my brain tells me that if nVidia admits that NV40 video processor is "borked" there were no problems admitting the same thing for NV45.
    The difference between us is that you're losing your patience insulting me about my "blind ignorance", me not.
    I'll do myself a favor: i'll test this infamous WMV9 acceleration feature on my own...the only real problem is that one of the 2 WMP10 patches that enable DXVA acceleration is not removable and i don't want to format my O.S. for that matter.
     
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