Purevideo and AVIVO

I have my two cents to add to this. I bought an ATi X1600 Pro AGP. I'm not impressed with its MPEG-2 decoding.

My PVR box grabs TV using a Hauppauge PVR-250 card and playback of that with any DVD decoder like PowerDVD or even nVidia's PureVideo decoder on the ATi card produces a horrible smearing effect. The only way to eliminiate this is to force "Bob" deinterlacing in CCC and switch DVD playback to VMR HQ mode. DVDs also exhibit this to a certain extent where some stuff leaves smear trails, like from light souces. I don't think this is desirable in any kind of MPEG-2 playback. Software mode playback is perfect, but then I lose the AVIVO tech.

In particular, some of my recordings of "Smallville" show hideous trails on Lex Luthor's bald head like bits of where his head used to be being overlayed on where his head is now but in a lighter colour. 'tis horrible. Or seeing Lana Lang's cheek from its previous position superimposed on new positions as a lighter shade. I honestly doubt 'tis something wrong with the card. Some colours seem to exhibit this more than others. Forcing the deinterlacing mode to "Bob" and switching to VMR HQ mode eliminates this altogether producing decent playback.

It doesn't seem right to pay for advanced deinterlacing when it smears video all over the place.

This is the reason I've gone back to my 6600 GT. To be honest, even DVDs look clearer than with the Radeon X1600, irrespective of what the reviews says.

nVidia's PureVideo hardware has three components to it:

a) MPEG-2 decode engine
b) Motion Estimation Engine ( Used for encoding )
c) Programmable Video Processor. ( Used for WMV HD and H264 decoding. ) ( This is broken on the NV40 )

The deinterlacing is done on the pixel shaders from what I've heard.

From what I've seen with the 6600 GT and the ATi X1600, the nVidia card supports:
ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_B ModeMPEG2_C ModeMPEG2_D ModeWMV9_B ModeWMV9_A

and the ATi card supports:
ModeMPEG2_C ModeMPEG2_D ModeWMV8_B ModeWMV8_A ModeWMV9_B ModeWMV9_A

( as reported by DXDIAG.EXE )

With the PureVideo decoder the ATi card runs in Modes C and D ( which are the more hardware accelerated modes ) and the nVidia card runs in Modes A and B which are less accelerated modes, which could explain the differences in CPU utilisation. I also think it picks the modes depending on the order they're listed here, so for unencrypted MPEG-2 clips, mode A is used on nVidia and mode C on ATi and modes B and D for DVD playback on the respective cards even though the nVidia cards support Modes C and D.
 
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Have you tried actually using ATI's Multimedia software for DVD playback?
 
Mariner said:
But does Avivo XCode actually use the GPU at all? I seem to remember reading that it doesn't actually use any of the capabilities of the GPU but is an entirely software-based solution.

If this is the case, how feasible is it that we'll see Video Encode assistance from the current generation of GPUs?

Supposedly, the reason they limited it to X1K is that they intend it to use X1K hardware (one hopes sooner rather than later), and therefore did not want X8xx-class users getting fond of it in the meanwhile.

"Supposedly" being the key word there, tho. Haven't heard anything lately.
 
Ok, this would be a lot of anyone wish, a recent article on AVIVO vs PV. FiringSqud is up "ATI Avivo vs NVIDIA Purevideo: Spring 2006" . They present the wmv clip for the article... the wmv is here (about 80MB download :oops: ) and you are advised to watch the wmv before continue reading at the conclusion... I still cannot say much as it is very slowwwwww download that WMV.

Arhhhh.... someone with speedy network please try it.
 
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BRiT said:
Have you tried actually using ATI's Multimedia software for DVD playback?


I have a Sapphire Radeon. It doesn't seem to come with ATi MMC. The downloadable version of MMC requires a previous install.

In any case, ATi's MMC decoder is Cyberlink's PowerDVD and it does the exact same thing with that.

DVD's don't really suffer from the smearing. 'tis just my MPEG-2 recordings off cable via a Hauppauge PVR-250 which suffer from this. The nVidia card has this too, but 'tis very slight and not really noticeable unless you specifically look for it.
 
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geo said:
Sapphire isn't bundling MMC? :oops: Is that new? What all did they bundle?
MMC is mostly come with ATi brand box. Sapphire sometime does not includes any decoder with the card (my 9250 PCI come with card and driver only).

However, it would be nice if we can download MMC from ATi web and can use it. For HW acceleration of ATi in PowerDVD, I am not sure that the original version (compatitble with R3xx and R4xx) will fully compatible with R5xx card.
 
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satein said:
However, it would be nice if we can download MMC from ATi web and can use it.

The reason you can't is probably related to royalty payments for MPEG. You either cover the cost of them when you buy your card or you don't get them.
 
satein said:
Ok, this would be a lot of anyone wish, a recent article on AVIVO vs PV. FiringSqud is up "ATI Avivo vs NVIDIA Purevideo: Spring 2006" . They present the wmv clip for the article... the wmv is here (about 80MB download :oops: ) and you are advised to watch the wmv before continue reading at the conclusion... I still cannot say much as it is very slowwwwww download that WMV.

Arhhhh.... someone with speedy network please try it.

Well, that is certainly timely!

Edit: Or not. . as my progress bar suggests 2hrs to download an 80mb file across a 3mb/s connection.
 
OK, this is a list comparison of features on now PV and AVIVO (which I dumped from the page on WMV)...

_______________________________[PV]____[AVIVO]
Universa DXVA Support
(PowerDVD, WinDVD, etc)________Q2'06(1)____Yes

HD Playback
H.264 Acceleration________________Yes______Yes
HD Spatial-Temporal Deinterlacing___Yes______Yes
HD Inverse Telecine_______________Yes______No(2)
(Content-based detection)
HD Noise Reduction_______________ No______2H'06

DVD Playback
Unusual Cadence Support_________Q2'06(1)____Yes
Noise Reduction_________________Q2'06(1)____Yes

(1) We (FS) have independently tested these features in new pre-release drivers
(2) Supports flag-based detection of 3:2 cadence with HD sources

Took me 2hrs to download :drool: It's 720p format wmv.
 
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geo said:
Sapphire isn't bundling MMC? :oops: Is that new? What all did they bundle?

PowerDVD if I remember correctly.

NVIDIA AIB partners also bundle PowerDVD. Pretty unsual to see WinDVD bundles in the different cards we stock.
 
Nice work by Firingsquad with great music too.
My only complaint would be the extra helping of cheese during that comes free with the video ;)
 
satein said:
OK, this is a list comparison of features on now PV and AVIVO (which I dumped from the page on WMV)...



Took me 2hrs to download :drool: It's 720p format wmv.
Goes really slow for me also..
using the dailytech link goes a bit faster (70~KB/s) but still slow for my standards.
 
Hmm. . .they seemed to suggest that 7xxx class hardware, or maybe just 7600 (tho that would be odd) have a difference now in PV functionality vs 6xxx class hardware? That's what I got out of it at the beginning, anyway. Anyone else have a read on that?
 
It may come down to either the performance of the VP needed to do inverse telecine @ HD resolutions, or it may be that they added fixed function hardware so that their iDCT block can handle both MPEG-2 iDCT and H.264's iDCT, as well as the new motion-comp modes, which might "free up" enough GPU Video Processor performance to handle the rest of the pipeline, since for H.264, they might have had to add some funky VP tricks to get the 264 transform working (either pure software impl on video processor, or some kind of hack to somehow reuse the MPEG-2 iDCT vs transcoding transform techniques)
 
Well, by only comparing 6600gt to 7600gt, who knows if it is horsepower or new hardware? Would 7800gt, for instance, have this added functionality? Heckifino. 6800U? Dunno either.

I'm sure it'll become clear in time, but rather annoying for FS to leave it ambiguous like that.
 
I'm extremely disappointed by FS's video. That really should have been a one-page article with two or three videos showing the split-screen comparisons.

When they did that Top Gear comparison in the intro, I thought we might get some kind of test run. How many idiots (sorry, consumers) can we get through before we find one who can actually get HDTV (H.264) playback working with a fresh XP install and the hardware installed, with NVidia hardware? Then, the same for ATI.

The fundamental problem with this stuff is it's near enough impossible for normal people to get it to work at the top levels of image quality.

Extremely amateur effort by FS. Even if I did learn two or three things I didn't know before. And pretty lame that the whole thing appeared to start off as an NVidia advertorial.

Jawed
 
geo said:
Well, by only comparing 6600gt to 7600gt, who knows if it is horsepower or new hardware? Would 7800gt, for instance, have this added functionality? Heckifino. 6800U? Dunno either.

I'm sure it'll become clear in time, but rather annoying for FS to leave it ambiguous like that.


The fact that "Bad Edit Correction" and "Inverse Telecine" are available on the 6800U but not on any other 6x00 product, even the "fixed" 6600 series video processor, seems to suggest that inverse telecine/cadence detection is based on clock performance, which suggests that on the 6x series, it is implemented via "software" on the video processor.

On he other hand, h.264 decode capability works even on a 7300LE and even a 6200, but not a 6800GT, which seems to suggest that its performance insensitive, and probably based on the fixed function iDCT blocks on the card that the VP uses. 6800GT just has a broken VP.

You get inverse telecine/cadence detection at SD res even on low end GF6 series probably because the driver can do it in software. At HD resolutions, the CPU can't without crippling your machine, but something about the G7x enables it, even on a 7300LE.
 
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