MAG
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It's a problem with all these maps, and endemic to MAG. From the beginning if the defenders get a good start, the opposition are completely bogged down, and it makes the rest of the game utterly futile. Even on the larger maps there's no opportunity to go around and sneak about. The only maps I've known where the enemy haven't be completely boxed in are the larger Valor maps. All the rest, there's a fair chance that the attackers are going to play an entire round doing nothing. Joy...
Shifty, I think you are right and wrong 
In general if the attackers get pushed back, what is needed is a regrouping and a coordinated forward push.
Problem is to achieve this level of coordination, especially on the Domination maps, the big issue is that as leader in this game you do not get people to follow your orders, unless its your clan only on your side.
The Squad leader actually got the best tool to get people to do what he wants, ie the Frago. While the Platoon leaders and OIC do not have such tools. Then again the random selection of selection of SL's means it gets chaotic. Mainly because the OIC should most likely just order the Platoon leaders around and then they should order their Squad leaders again.
In "real" life this chain of command is ingrained before the battle starts and the soliders do as they are told, I think that is the biggest problem with MAG, that they expect people to behave like that with no real way to reward people for playing that way, except for the Frago. At least its unknown to me.
If the OIC could give targets that only PL could see ie a PL Frago and then PL could give the SL a Frago which then the SL could give out again to his squad.
It would mean that the OIC/PL needs to give 4 Frago's and that the SL will put in Frago and waypoints to achive his Frago.
That way the PL could most likely get two squads to hit one bunker or even 4 if he needed to.
In general if the attackers get pushed back, what is needed is a regrouping and a coordinated forward push.Problem is to achieve this level of coordination, especially on the Domination maps, the big issue is that as leader in this game you do not get people to follow your orders, unless its your clan only on your side.
The Squad leader actually got the best tool to get people to do what he wants, ie the Frago. While the Platoon leaders and OIC do not have such tools. Then again the random selection of selection of SL's means it gets chaotic. Mainly because the OIC should most likely just order the Platoon leaders around and then they should order their Squad leaders again.
In "real" life this chain of command is ingrained before the battle starts and the soliders do as they are told, I think that is the biggest problem with MAG, that they expect people to behave like that with no real way to reward people for playing that way, except for the Frago. At least its unknown to me.
If the OIC could give targets that only PL could see ie a PL Frago and then PL could give the SL a Frago which then the SL could give out again to his squad.
It would mean that the OIC/PL needs to give 4 Frago's and that the SL will put in Frago and waypoints to achive his Frago.
That way the PL could most likely get two squads to hit one bunker or even 4 if he needed to.
That's the "charging effect" I was talking about here:
The pattern is like this:
They poured in so fast that I ran out of clip and got killed while reloading. Then the new guys raised the fallens, and had a good 4-5 or more men in our Objective C almost instantly.
At this point, either more enemies will arrive in Objective C, or some may ambush our reinforcements along the way. If I am ambushed, the charge will blow up before I get to respawn.
We have only taken back Objective C _once_ when this happens. I threw both chemical grenades from the side into the objective room, forcing them to move to the front room. Then climb up and fight with the remaining troops from all directions. It's not a reliable method at all. 99.9% of the time, I get gunned down when they fire at us from the top or flank, or they kill me when I make it up the ladder.
patsu said:
The pattern is like this:
They poured in so fast that I ran out of clip and got killed while reloading. Then the new guys raised the fallens, and had a good 4-5 or more men in our Objective C almost instantly.
At this point, either more enemies will arrive in Objective C, or some may ambush our reinforcements along the way. If I am ambushed, the charge will blow up before I get to respawn.
We have only taken back Objective C _once_ when this happens. I threw both chemical grenades from the side into the objective room, forcing them to move to the front room. Then climb up and fight with the remaining troops from all directions. It's not a reliable method at all. 99.9% of the time, I get gunned down when they fire at us from the top or flank, or they kill me when I make it up the ladder.
Long post with minimal braggin
Ive vetted Raven twice, Valor once and am now almost done vetting SVER. I mainly play Sabotage simply because I hate being killed by something I have little to no control over (artillary strikes and such). I would rather die because a sniper sniped me accross the map then die because some guy is sitting in a turret and just shoots in my direction or someone orders an airstrike and blows everyone up.
By playing all 3 sides I know the weekness and strengths of both attacking and defending the 3 objectives pretty well. The best defense is a GOOD offense; I cannot stress this enough. If you push the attackers back toward their spawn the game ends easily; if you camp back at the objective or barely in front of it you allow them to be that much closer to securing it.
Nothing frustrates me more then being on a defending team and having people yell in the mic about falling back to the objective when an enemy hasn't taken it or even came close. Sabatoge is a tug-of-war match, you don't want to be near the pit as it increases your chances of falling into it.
My SABO tips
Valor C is all about controlling the supply room; I tell my squad this everytime we advance on C. If you let the enemy control the supply room they take out 1/3 of your faction by lobbing grenades constantly and therefore you can't get support when someone plants C. Another tidbit is that once you secure the supply room you now have to control the second level access from both spawn points (but not from the stairs leading from the supply room). You can choke their reinforements if you put people on the left and right and mow them down as they try to run back in. Its frustrating for Valor when they see the objective has been taken and they cant even make it inside the building itself because the opponent is spraying them as soon as they step a foot inside the door.
Raven C needs no explanation, its all about assaulting them from all three sides so that you spread their numbers out. This means that you might have to sacrafice some deaths so you draw more of them away from the center so people can advance. Controlling the supply crates is useless but controlling the spawn point from B does wonders. Raven A and B is the same as any other objective; offense needs to be offensive. If you camp the objective you will lose it; you have to push Raven back so that when your team mates die and have to respawn you have more time before Raven gets back the objective.
SVERs A and B are not that hard to get but you need massive amounts of movement, more then 3 snipers(total for all platoons) near your spawn and your wasting valuable resources. A - Control the left side of the objective (the side with rediculous cover) and push up to A. Have someone stand underneath the stair access and aim up (you can shoot through the grated floor) and you can take out the guy usually camping the stairs (remember this about all of SVERS stair access points as I'm killing you guys coming up the stairs easily by shooting through them down to you!). The first person going up the stairs should have a LMG and the guy right behind him should have his medkit out. As soon as the guy reaches the top of the stairs spray him with your magic blue smoke, swap to your rifle and try to mow them down. B isn't much different except you need a small squad controlling the ridge/bridge area. You don't need to advance from it but control it so you can provide cover for the guys trying to run up the middle. C is about planting and protecting after you reach it and honestly its pretty damn easy for the opposition. Just remember that SVER piles in from both the left and right mainly by the use of the staircase. Also remember that on the right side (your side) of C that most SVER don't even bother looking down or anything else when they cross that bridge. That makes it 10x easier to use that side to get behind them..sit back..and mow them down.
Back when I was Valor I spawned camped Raven and ended up going 54 and 24, then immediatly after I spawn camped SVER and went 45 and 20. Needless to say we won handidly both times and my XP was decent but not very high due to no FRAGO points. I have no need anymore to Vet; my clanmate and I will decide what faction we want to go with after we finish SVER and right now I'm not leaning towards anyone in particular. I admit it sucks to be spawned camped no matter what faction your on, just as it is kind of fun to spawn camp your opponent.
I'm an LMG user, I'm always an LMG user as it has been my weapon of choice on every FPS game I played (besides my stint with the 203 in BF2). I find it too accurate and wish they would nerf that aspect of it, the bullet pattern shouldn't be any tighter with a reflex as it is shooting from the hip. Also the amount of recoil is rediculously low, so low in fact that it really just seems like a AR with a larger clip! I would rather have them kick up the recoil 2x so that if you stand and hold R1 and don't make any adjustments you will be firing up at the sky in 5 seconds. Then reduce the amount of muzzle flash and call it a day. Also recoil will make the gun kick up and to the right (if your right handed) not just bounce all over the place as it currently does.
Oh yeah and get rid of the damn knives; cheapest kill in the entire game!! No reason to be able to swipe someone with a knife that is 2m away from you; that range is for shotguns not knives!
Ive vetted Raven twice, Valor once and am now almost done vetting SVER. I mainly play Sabotage simply because I hate being killed by something I have little to no control over (artillary strikes and such). I would rather die because a sniper sniped me accross the map then die because some guy is sitting in a turret and just shoots in my direction or someone orders an airstrike and blows everyone up.
By playing all 3 sides I know the weekness and strengths of both attacking and defending the 3 objectives pretty well. The best defense is a GOOD offense; I cannot stress this enough. If you push the attackers back toward their spawn the game ends easily; if you camp back at the objective or barely in front of it you allow them to be that much closer to securing it.
Nothing frustrates me more then being on a defending team and having people yell in the mic about falling back to the objective when an enemy hasn't taken it or even came close. Sabatoge is a tug-of-war match, you don't want to be near the pit as it increases your chances of falling into it.
My SABO tips
Valor C is all about controlling the supply room; I tell my squad this everytime we advance on C. If you let the enemy control the supply room they take out 1/3 of your faction by lobbing grenades constantly and therefore you can't get support when someone plants C. Another tidbit is that once you secure the supply room you now have to control the second level access from both spawn points (but not from the stairs leading from the supply room). You can choke their reinforements if you put people on the left and right and mow them down as they try to run back in. Its frustrating for Valor when they see the objective has been taken and they cant even make it inside the building itself because the opponent is spraying them as soon as they step a foot inside the door.
Raven C needs no explanation, its all about assaulting them from all three sides so that you spread their numbers out. This means that you might have to sacrafice some deaths so you draw more of them away from the center so people can advance. Controlling the supply crates is useless but controlling the spawn point from B does wonders. Raven A and B is the same as any other objective; offense needs to be offensive. If you camp the objective you will lose it; you have to push Raven back so that when your team mates die and have to respawn you have more time before Raven gets back the objective.
SVERs A and B are not that hard to get but you need massive amounts of movement, more then 3 snipers(total for all platoons) near your spawn and your wasting valuable resources. A - Control the left side of the objective (the side with rediculous cover) and push up to A. Have someone stand underneath the stair access and aim up (you can shoot through the grated floor) and you can take out the guy usually camping the stairs (remember this about all of SVERS stair access points as I'm killing you guys coming up the stairs easily by shooting through them down to you!). The first person going up the stairs should have a LMG and the guy right behind him should have his medkit out. As soon as the guy reaches the top of the stairs spray him with your magic blue smoke, swap to your rifle and try to mow them down. B isn't much different except you need a small squad controlling the ridge/bridge area. You don't need to advance from it but control it so you can provide cover for the guys trying to run up the middle. C is about planting and protecting after you reach it and honestly its pretty damn easy for the opposition. Just remember that SVER piles in from both the left and right mainly by the use of the staircase. Also remember that on the right side (your side) of C that most SVER don't even bother looking down or anything else when they cross that bridge. That makes it 10x easier to use that side to get behind them..sit back..and mow them down.
Back when I was Valor I spawned camped Raven and ended up going 54 and 24, then immediatly after I spawn camped SVER and went 45 and 20. Needless to say we won handidly both times and my XP was decent but not very high due to no FRAGO points. I have no need anymore to Vet; my clanmate and I will decide what faction we want to go with after we finish SVER and right now I'm not leaning towards anyone in particular. I admit it sucks to be spawned camped no matter what faction your on, just as it is kind of fun to spawn camp your opponent.
I'm an LMG user, I'm always an LMG user as it has been my weapon of choice on every FPS game I played (besides my stint with the 203 in BF2). I find it too accurate and wish they would nerf that aspect of it, the bullet pattern shouldn't be any tighter with a reflex as it is shooting from the hip. Also the amount of recoil is rediculously low, so low in fact that it really just seems like a AR with a larger clip! I would rather have them kick up the recoil 2x so that if you stand and hold R1 and don't make any adjustments you will be firing up at the sky in 5 seconds. Then reduce the amount of muzzle flash and call it a day. Also recoil will make the gun kick up and to the right (if your right handed) not just bounce all over the place as it currently does.
Oh yeah and get rid of the damn knives; cheapest kill in the entire game!! No reason to be able to swipe someone with a knife that is 2m away from you; that range is for shotguns not knives!
But as you allude to, it doesn't happen, except by chance I think when everyone happens to be dead at the same time. But still, once pinned back I recall no games where we as attackers or the enemy as attackers have managed to turn it around on any map.Shifty, I think you are right and wrong
Also in Sabotage, VALOR is the only map where the defending team cannot approach their base from behind. Both RAVEN and SVER can walk behind the no-go zone in safety to get to their objective C to defend, whereas VALOR have to approach from the side in open battle.
The FRAGO is just broken! I appreciate what Zipper were trying to do, and on the larger maps it probably works to a degree, but on Sabotage it's broken.
Which is where the FRAGO backfires. The incentive in this game is XP. Loitering around the FRAGO doubles your score. Hence my best scores are spent being probably my least productive, hanging back in the Objective rezzing folk. I recently played a game attacking SVER, who had us pinned back early on. I went round the back killed a couple from behind, and secured the bridge north of Objective A so I could shoot down on new enemies. This held them up long enough for the rest of the team to get their act together and grab A. Now I could have grabbed A myself and got the points, but instead I helped the team, but got no bonus. The incentive isn't there to be useful!
If the objective is to secure A, any enemy killed is helping that, so the bonus XP shouldn't be so limited. If there's a sniper on the back cutting us down, someone needs to go after him, but whoever does is going to miss out on all the lovely XP got from rezzing the people that sniper's killing! IMO the bonus XP should be scrapped as is, with rezzes the same as kills (one man up or one man down, in terms of numbers it's all the same). When the objective is secured, the whole squad should get a significant pay-off. This would open up the game to better tactics, with a forward push being as good pointswise as hanging back, while the bonus would still be there for the squad to secure the objective instead of just fart about. Someone getting rid of that sniper would be doing as much to help the cause as someone in the objective rezzing his targets, so should get a payout of the success.
Knives are sooo ridiculous! Maybe it's the same lag that causes me to die half a second before the bullet hits, but I've seen people get knifed from some 4-5 metres away, a soldier waving his arm around and someone in front of him dying. And I've had people at point blank range not get hit.
It's easier to do for Objective C. In A and B, the attackers' opinions may be split.
There is no safe route or zone from Raver base to Objective C. We can be ambushed rather easily along the way.
Yes, there is a tension between FRAGO and "What's the right thing to do now ?". But you do get winning bonus in the end if you take the bases successfully.
Dregun said:
I agree with your evaluation.
The best way to defend against a coordinated 7-8 men attack is to prevent it from happening in the first place.
Since the patch where they tuned Sniper power down, my scores has also dropped.
These days I switch more evenly between a SMG/MG wielder and a sniper.
Ididn't play many RAVEN games before trying SVER, so maybe you're right, but certainly as VALOR attacking, I've sat outside the right base (from RAVEN's POV) hoping to take some down before they run up the stairs, and seen most running straight towards the back of the objective. Likewise attacking SVER, I'll often go left and take them out as they run in front of the their and left to enter C from the top walkway, but playing as SVER I found there's a safe route round the back. VALOR hasn't got a back route at all. There are two ways in, left and right, which the opposition can camp outside of. C's certainly defendable if you have numbers in there, but the opportunities for cutting off a supply of reinforcements are great against VALOR than either of the other two AFAICS.
Yes, that back route can be reached by outsiders as well. The easiest way is to go center. Instead of going up the staircase to Objective C, pass it and head behind. The other way is to approach it from the other side (the left side). There is a small room there where people can hide. I have been ambushed in that spot before while climbing up the ladder, but it's rare.
It's similar to Valor's backroad path (on the left side, from attacker's perspective). You can take that road and go up the building from the left side, but not many attackers take that route. I have only used it once myself.
I have entered Objective C successfully from SVER's backdoor. Usually, it's not that difficult. I have been there alone, or with 1, 2 other folks. What's difficult is to have enough people follow you. The only reason I took that route was to clear some snipers in that area or at the backroom. It's too far from the Objective C trailer. You can get shot easily from flank, top and behind after you entered the hangar.
IMHO, the more rewarding way is to block the right or left path.
Incidentally, I like to take SVER Objective A from the underground train depot, or take Objective B from spawn point A. In the second case, the enemies will be facing the sniper porch direction. I sneaked up from behind and knifed the defenders. Only tried it twice though.
Funny that most people in here that have a different opinion than me in regards to the game, play mostly the map/mode that I think is the weakest/worst ie Sabotage.
To me that is standard TDM with a weak objective solution tagged on.
While both the two other modes are less TDM'y and very object based and to me works okay, if you can get your squad to play somewhat coherently.
As Shifty says Frago's are bogus in Sabotage since if you intially should defend A or B it will be auto fragged and most XP gathering players insists on the Frago being set on the other objective, so that people get the XP bonus if they over to the other side to "help out".
But in AQ and Dom, the Frago is the way to point and push the fighting in certain directions.
I have to little experience in playing as PL or OIC to actually see how they can change the tide of a battle, but to me, it currently seems the SL is the one with the best tools to influence a battlefield,
Now if they removed mortars from the SL and made it an only PL tasks it could change things a bit, but then we have trust relationship again. The PL should put down the attacks where the SL asks for and not just places he can get a lot of XP.
I know that when I am SL and my sector is quite secure and I got the option to call inn mortar strikes, I look at the map where I know enemies usually gather and just dump it in there to get some extra XP.
To me that is standard TDM with a weak objective solution tagged on.
While both the two other modes are less TDM'y and very object based and to me works okay, if you can get your squad to play somewhat coherently.
As Shifty says Frago's are bogus in Sabotage since if you intially should defend A or B it will be auto fragged and most XP gathering players insists on the Frago being set on the other objective, so that people get the XP bonus if they over to the other side to "help out".
But in AQ and Dom, the Frago is the way to point and push the fighting in certain directions.
I have to little experience in playing as PL or OIC to actually see how they can change the tide of a battle, but to me, it currently seems the SL is the one with the best tools to influence a battlefield,
Now if they removed mortars from the SL and made it an only PL tasks it could change things a bit, but then we have trust relationship again. The PL should put down the attacks where the SL asks for and not just places he can get a lot of XP.
I know that when I am SL and my sector is quite secure and I got the option to call inn mortar strikes, I look at the map where I know enemies usually gather and just dump it in there to get some extra XP.
http://blog.mag.com/blog/2010/04/mag-double-xp-weekend-starts-april-29/
Double XP weekend is back. It starts the same day as the DLC arrives.
The timing couldn't be better. I'm level 60 at Valor now, and switching over to SVER this week. And I'll have the whole day friday available to play.
Double XP weekend is back. It starts the same day as the DLC arrives.
The timing couldn't be better. I'm level 60 at Valor now, and switching over to SVER this week. And I'll have the whole day friday available to play.
This always happens to me, double XP weekend comes and I can't take advantage of it because I'll be out of town Since Im already lvl 40+ on Sver and will reach 60 by thursday this would have been a great time to Vet another PMC again before making up my mind about wich one to stay with.
Why Zipper WHY!!?!???!?!
Since Im already lvl 40+ on Sver and will reach 60 by thursday this would have been a great time to Vet another PMC again before making up my mind about wich one to stay with.Why Zipper WHY!!?!???!?!
http://forums.mag.com/t5/MAG-Discussion/MAG-v1-05-Known-Issues-UPD-April-22-2010/td-p/289616
Something interesting in the known issues thread on the MAG forums.
Something interesting in the known issues thread on the MAG forums.
I wondered that, and guess they mean the AI of the player character in working around obstacles. Being unable to ascend a 1 foot step without a conscious jump is plain silly.
They put it together with Ongoing Gameplay, so maybe it's better feedback to the player about what's going on in the entire battlefield. Something like letting a platoon leader see what the 4 squad leaders below him have frago'd. That could help him make a better strategy. What I would like to see are things like, make the squad leader a different colour on the map to be able quickly locate him. Or a different colour for anyone in your party.
