RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
Anybody visualizing four players trying to play this game at the same time on a "normal sized" tv in a "normal sized" room?
Madden on Revolution - dedicated Rev version, not a port
- Thread starter Titanio
- Start date
Powderkeg said:
Well not directly but you kept imagining unworkable schemes without any realworld hands on knowledge of the remote for FPS.
There is no reason to do a underhand cast because the game doesn't allow you to fish on a pier or from above. Also the fishing controller is fairly top heavy for continuious underhand casting so it wouldn't work very well. Third the Wii remote will likely be very balanced and lightweight, unlike the fising controller allowing effortless underhand gestures regardless of the type of game.
So I guess it's confirmed that the nunchuck has it's own accelerometer.
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NANOTEC said:
Once again, I never once said there was an unworkable scheme.
Why don't you try claiming I said something I actually did, rather than making up lies about me?
What I DID say is that it will have the same rotational speed limitations as a thumbstick for the exact same reasons as a thumbstick. You can only move the controller so far left and right, up and down, while still facing the television. There is a limit there, and that means that in order to turn farther than that limit there will be an artificial rotation speed limitation. Just like thumbsticks.
There MUST be. Your only other option is to have absolutely no limit on the speed, in which case once you turned the controller as far as you could and the game took over it would rotate at an infinite rate and where you stopped would be completely random.
You don't follow conversations well, do you? Not surprising considering your inability to accurately quote me.
Wii Madden requires an underhand swing to kick the ball. Therefore, it's more complicated than your fishing controller and requires you to move in ways your fishing controller doesn't. Therefore your comparison is worthless.
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A fishing controller is top heavy, the Wii DPD is likely very lightweight and balanced therefore underhand swings should be effortless. How often do you kick in Football anyway? Not very often. Kicking with the remote sounds so much more interesting than pushing a button and as I said it's not like you're always kicking when playing Football anyway.
I understand why they want to do the throwing motion and such, but my throwing arm is, well, trashed. Literally. Chronic subluxation from a number of dislocations pre- and post- surgery. I was hoping more for a "point" system, something like the current QB vision and left/right movements would pan left and right, and how far you pointed it up/down would determine distance. This would be more of a "manual" passing--just place it on the field like a real QB. Trigger to initiate the throw, with movement during the pass being able to adjust the pass some. Probably not a good idea...
One nice thing with Madden and Wii is that the game could become First Person for the QB. Panning Left/Right could change your field of view, and when you find your receiver, hit the button and "throw". Or hit the buttons to change what receiver you are looking at. But a first person view would be really cool! I could see a lot of play elements being added here, like narrowed vision and such. This would put you in the game and open up some nice RPG like elements down the road.
Ditto for running. Numchuck to move your player, but use the wand to look left/right.
Sports games should be a blast on Wii. All kinds of options for baseball and basketball and hockey games, golf and tennis look like pefect fits. The question is will there be enough sport fans who jump aboard Wii, and will companies design for casuals OR will they design the games for the rabid sport fan base. Easier to use, but deep game that is immersive... or just fun pick up game with little depth meant for a more casual audiance?
I guess the good news is if they are just using the current Madden engine all the stats, franchise, league, etc... stuff is all in place. They can upgrade the graphics and AI and add the interactive layer and focus on that. So there is no reason the game should not be very very robust. If they cut a lot of stuff... tsk tsk tsk
One nice thing with Madden and Wii is that the game could become First Person for the QB. Panning Left/Right could change your field of view, and when you find your receiver, hit the button and "throw". Or hit the buttons to change what receiver you are looking at. But a first person view would be really cool! I could see a lot of play elements being added here, like narrowed vision and such. This would put you in the game and open up some nice RPG like elements down the road.
Ditto for running. Numchuck to move your player, but use the wand to look left/right.
Sports games should be a blast on Wii. All kinds of options for baseball and basketball and hockey games, golf and tennis look like pefect fits. The question is will there be enough sport fans who jump aboard Wii, and will companies design for casuals OR will they design the games for the rabid sport fan base. Easier to use, but deep game that is immersive... or just fun pick up game with little depth meant for a more casual audiance?
I guess the good news is if they are just using the current Madden engine all the stats, franchise, league, etc... stuff is all in place. They can upgrade the graphics and AI and add the interactive layer and focus on that. So there is no reason the game should not be very very robust. If they cut a lot of stuff... tsk tsk tsk
mckmas8808
Legend
RancidLunchmeat said:
Of course not. Fun -1
I didn't say EA should give it a different name. I was clearly talking about how they classify it. Madden Wii is a port, despite what EA says.NANOTEC said:So instead of Madden Football, EA should call it Joe Montana Football so that it wouldn't be considered a port? I mean how many football games can you make differently? EA will always have Madden Football. If you want to call the Wii version a port then every Madden to date is a port of an earlier version.
thenefariousone
Newcomer
Actually - I disagree about sports games being a blast.
With the exception of tennis games and golf, only certain sports games in certain situations would be a blast with the revolution controller. Most of those situations are areas where someone is only doing something on offense, or in a skills competition.
Although the controller provides a lot of freedom, it's not well suited for playing offense or defense in baseball, basketball, football, american football, rugby, or most team sports. However - since so much money is made in the sports genre, nintendo will try to find a way.
Your example of being QB is great, but what about kicking field goals and running plays?
What about american football on the defensive end?
How does it make running a powerplay or a penalty kill in hockey any easier?
Or make stealing bases in baseball any better?
Or make running an offense in basketball or soccer any simpler and more intuitive?
Even wrestling games will require serious thinking to implement worthwhile controlls.
In addition, in sports games today, one has the option of switching to various players while playing. How would quick camera angle changes be dealt with?
Will every player's view be restricted to first person is a hinderance to gameplay.
Sports games tend to use all the buttons available on a conventional controller because there's a lot to do in a sports game.
Replacing the button for "juke" with some kind of special movement of the controller, and replacing the "spin" button with another type of movement, will still lead to pausing to look up controls in the manual.
With the exception of tennis games and golf, only certain sports games in certain situations would be a blast with the revolution controller. Most of those situations are areas where someone is only doing something on offense, or in a skills competition.
Although the controller provides a lot of freedom, it's not well suited for playing offense or defense in baseball, basketball, football, american football, rugby, or most team sports. However - since so much money is made in the sports genre, nintendo will try to find a way.
Your example of being QB is great, but what about kicking field goals and running plays?
What about american football on the defensive end?
How does it make running a powerplay or a penalty kill in hockey any easier?
Or make stealing bases in baseball any better?
Or make running an offense in basketball or soccer any simpler and more intuitive?
Even wrestling games will require serious thinking to implement worthwhile controlls.
In addition, in sports games today, one has the option of switching to various players while playing. How would quick camera angle changes be dealt with?
Will every player's view be restricted to first person is a hinderance to gameplay.
Sports games tend to use all the buttons available on a conventional controller because there's a lot to do in a sports game.
Replacing the button for "juke" with some kind of special movement of the controller, and replacing the "spin" button with another type of movement, will still lead to pausing to look up controls in the manual.
Acert93 said:
Not even the best controller can make a boring sport fun.thenefariousone said:
mckmas8808
Legend
Why is it so hard to remember what button to push on a PS2 controller to juke? And wouldn't you have to remember which way to twist and turn the Wiimote to do the same thing?
On the PS2 controller it's only "one" small button.
On the PS2 controller it's only "one" small button.
thenefariousone said:
Running with the ball:
• Numchuck to control running
• Wand left/right to stiff arm left/right
• Wand "A" button for spin
• Numchuck tilt left/right for juke left/right
* Personally I would change the stiff arm buttons to the 2 Numchuck triggers, and change the running POV to First person and use the wand as head movement; basically analog stick for running direction, but use the Wand to give a sense of independant head movement.
Kicking could be done a number of ways. Not every movement has to mimick the real life motion. Kicking is VERY minor in football, but here is how I would do it:
"Bouncing" power meter on screen. Power is determined by the player timing their kick to the meter. Accuracy is dependant on the swing; the swing would be a "golf" like swing. This could be a lot of fun if implimented well.
Do remember there is an ANALOG stick on the Numchucks + 2 triggers. The want also has a primary trigger, a larger "A" button and a number of other buttons and D pad. On defense you would use the Numchuck like a normal controller.
Pre Snap: Use the wans to make adjustments RTS style. Pick a single player OR highlight the DL / LBs / Safties etc. And then audible them / reposition.
Post snap: Numchuck for movement and tilt for spin (DL); Trigger and A on Wand for primary moves; Wand Gestures for spin moves, bat the ball, etc.
This is a perpetual problem with baseball games as it is. Wii is not going to solve every problem, especially in games where 1 person is controlling multiple players.
That said stealing is easy: D-pad for the base where the player is at. Trigger to RUN; A to go back. Problem solved!
But this ignores the KEY part of baseball: Hitting and Pitching.
All of a sudden hitting becomes very realistic and takes some skill and becomes interactive. I can think of a number of GOOD ways to incorperate Pitching as well. Fielding should not be hard, but they could always resort to the SS version of WSB where the CPU played a bit of the defense for you (not that it is necessary).
But I am excited about the idea of pitching.
D-pad Up: Fast Ball
D-pad Down: Off Speed
D-pad Left: Curve Ball
D-pad Right: Slider
Your arm motion/speed would determine how fast the pitch is. Have the player hit the "trigger" button at the point of release -- if they miss it by much the pitch becomes less accurate and gravitates toward the middle of the plate. Placement of the pitch would be decided before the pitch motion with the Wand (for MP, the rumble feature could tell the player where the boundaries are).
It only took me a minute to come up with these ideas. You get a 30 person development team spending weeks testing the thing out you are going to get some good ideas that can make core parts of the game better.
The Wand and Numchucks wont solve *every* problem in games, and WILL cause other issues. But in many games, at least sports, it can add a LOT to the game and be fun doing it, while being approachable.
A total gaming newb wont know to hit X and move the ANalog stick to hit a baseball.
But a total newb can figure out "swing the stick like a bat" to hit a ball.
You probably misunderstand Nintendo's audiance. While I hope they have a variety of settings (beginnger / expert) my guess is this:
Nintendo is aiming at casual gamers, non gamers, and people looking for an alternative experience. They will be simplifying the games some, but in exchange for providing new innovation in core elements of the game.
So you can either swing the wand like a bat and throw like a real pitcher and have maybe (maybe!) less control on some elements of the game -or- you can use the controller for typical gameplay. Of course Nintendo will have a controller sleeve deal, so you may have both options on Rev... err Wii.
The problems you propose are mainly trying to force Wii into the current sport games dimensions. We know the NExt Gen Games will change some. What Nintendo is asking is that they start over and try doing things more interactively. This means there will be trade offs to a degree. But some parts, like swinging a bat or pitching or throwing a football or doing a real golf swing, sound a lot of fun.
Personally, I could live without having full control of base stealing if I could actually bat and pitch. Not that that is how it will be, as there are solutions to these problems.
mckmas8808 said:
It can be quite hard dependent on varios factors, for example: one how cant play to much time; those how like to play a lot of games at the "same time"; those how can only play (eg) one week yes, next week no; those how simple have bad memory; those how want to replay etc..
For example I liked very much of FSW but I barely can play today because every time I want to play I need to remember/relearn everything again, I would love a micro for that game so I can just point and say "supress fire/go/team A...".
Plus for new gamers that can be a nightmare.
In this case, for the basics, you just need to do what you would do in real life (or something closo to).
This should be , both, very easy to learn/start but as hard, at least, to master.
Teasy said:
Isnt even that, imagination may be great and in some case it may work as Powderkeg said, but one must consider both the subconscious that make many people think that he does not like something but after try he loves that, plus there is things that is just to hard to imagine to make any jugdement from that reacting fellings for many are (but if you want to see others eg there is the taste), many things are dependent from others that one is not even thinking ATM.
So please lets try first and make your mind after.
