low yield for the 9600 ???????

[olivier]

http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?datePublish=2003/07/04&pages=02&seq=4

this is not the same story we hear some time ago. And what is the r360 ???

r420
rv360
r360

a lot of chip to launch at the same time

 

[kemosabe]

Salut Olivier,

I was about to post that same blurb from DigiTimes, which indeed contradicts everything we've heard about RV350 yields (both from ATI management and other sources, including Dave on another thread). :?

According to several sources, R360 is just a speed-bumped R350 with no new features, presumably intended to recapture the performance crown from NV35 (assuming it was ever lost) until the NV40/R420 clash begins.

 

[Evildeus]

I thought the yield was at something like 95% Salut en passant.

 

[Arun]

Ack! Les français attaquent!
( Translation: Ack! The french are attacking! )

The R360/RV360 will not launch at the same time as the R420.
As for the low yields on the RV350. It's odd, I'd say. I don't know. I just don't put a lot of truth in digitimes anyway, because they had their "first product at IBM is the NV40" thingy very wrong.


Uttar

 

[Bjorn]

I thought the yield was at something like 95% Salut en passant.

I think that what Dave ment (as someone mentioned in that thread) was that of the ones that were ok, 98% of them was capable of >= 400 MHz.

 

[Evildeus]

I hope, but it wasn't clear at the time i think, now it seems clear, till the next scoop saying that the yield is at 100%

 

[Dave Baumann]

WRT to this story ATI said to me: "Our yields on RV350 are running close to the theoretical maximum". They are unaware of who these sources are and they are checking to see if there are any supply constraints – they did say that they have expected more in the way of competition (5600 availability is low and it doesn’t shine in comparison to 9600 PRO, 5600 Ultra’s are still not available) so there may be more demand than supply.

I’d say the comments in the CC are the ones to go by. This may be coming from a disgruntled AIB who wants more parts and perhaps ATI are diverting more elsewhere (such as OEM’s, which is something that has happened before).

 

[olivier]

thx dave for the info.

Another question, why the r360 if ati launch the r420 in few month.

and "salut a tous les francais"

 

[Dave Baumann]

Another question, why the r360 if ati launch the r420 in few month.

At a guess, if its the case that R360 will be in the late August/early sept timeframe I would say that perhaps R420 is gradually becoming more of an early 04 part. Really, the key timing here is PCI extress probably - I'm not sure when PCI express motherboards will be ready and I'd assume that perhaps ATI and NVIDIA are aiming both their next gen parts for this.

 

[Tim Murray]

Really, the key timing here is PCI extress probably - I'm not sure when PCI express motherboards will be ready and I'd assume that perhaps ATI and NVIDIA are aiming both their next gen parts for this.

Great--how long until they stop producing high-end AGP cards? Moving from PCI to AGP was one thing, but considering we don't use anywhere close to the amount of bandwidth AGP3.0 provides, it seems silly to use PCI-Express at this stage in the game.

Meh. Marketing gimmick, perhaps. Or will R420/NV40 actually give us a reason to have all this bandwidth? In THAT case... I just might have to buy a new motherboard.

 

[olivier]

so if your guess is rigth

the roadmap for ati is
3Q/03 r360 and rv360
1Q/04 r420

for nvidia

4Q/03 or 1Q/04 nv40
and nv36 somewhere this year.

Also do you think than the r360 is still in .15 ? My guess is yes, because loki is suposed to be the first high end of ati in .13

 

[Tim Murray]

Actually, while I'm probably wrong, it would make sense for R360 to be a .13 chip--it would give ATI time to iron out any nagging issues with the .13 process on a higher-end chip than the RV350 (which would probably be quite a bit more complex), and that would mean that when Lo(c/k)i is ready to go, they won't suffer the low-yield problems that many do.

 

[olivier]

yeah it's could make sense, because i dont know how they can make a card faster than the r350 in .15

 

[kemosabe]

WRT to this story ATI said to me: "Our yields on RV350 are running close to the theoretical maximum". They are unaware of who these sources are and they are checking to see if there are any supply constraints – they did say that they have expected more in the way of competition (5600 availability is low and it doesn’t shine in comparison to 9600 PRO, 5600 Ultra’s are still not available) so there may be more demand than supply.

I’d say the comments in the CC are the ones to go by. This may be coming from a disgruntled AIB who wants more parts and perhaps ATI are diverting more elsewhere (such as OEM’s, which is something that has happened before).

Ahh, merci beaucoup kemosabe Dave.

 

[kemosabe]

yeah it's could make sense, because i dont know how they can make a card faster than the r350 in .15

Actually, ATI reps have said on a couple of occasions that they are quite comfortable with the headroom left in the R300/350 architecture on the 0.15u process. It's a close call as it stands already, with the 9800 Pro getting the nod for image quality from just about every review site. All they need to firmly outclass the 5900 Ultra (with its current specs) is a 10-15% boost in core/memory speeds and they will ride through the rest of the year with an undisputed performance lead in the enthusiast segment.

R360 on 0.13u would have required a new tape-out at the foundry, and there have been no such reports.

 

[jvd]

mabye the r360 was just made incase the 5900 ultra soundly beat the r350. Since the 5900ultra does not beat the r350 they figured they might as well wait for the r420.

 

[John Reynolds]

Speaking of PCI Express, what's the Intel mobo chipset roadmap for supporting this?

 

[Neutrality]

Speaking of PCI Express, what's the Intel mobo chipset roadmap for supporting this?

PCI Express will be supported by the upcoming Grantsdale Chipset slated for a Q2 Release next year.


-Neutrality-

 

[Arun]

All they need to firmly outclass the 5900 Ultra (with its current specs) is a 10-15% boost in core/memory speeds and they will ride through the rest of the year with an undisputed performance lead in the enthusiast segment.

You've just summed up why nVidia wants so much to have at least some type of very, very limited avability or reviews of the NV40 at year end, I believe.


Uttar

 

[nonamer]

mabye the r360 was just made incase the 5900 ultra soundly beat the r350. Since the 5900ultra does not beat the r350 they figured they might as well wait for the r420.

That may still actually happen, since TSMC may get low-k ready very soon:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6574

Not sure how this may affect the performance of the 5900 though, but I would like to see a performance battle this fall.