LONG Load Times. The Future of PS3 Games? - IGN

[coldstorm]

Ok i can see this thread going downwards already but lets get back on topic.
Benq should have a 2x drive blu-ray drive ready for beginning of next year. expecting more from sony would be pushing their luck but is possible if launch is delayed from spring.

 

[Gholbine]

I expect a 4x Blu-Ray drive minimum. I wouldn't be surprised if they even managed 6x (although that might be pushing it). We'll just have to wait for the announcement.

I don't see how this is possible . Bluray players aren't even in mass production yet u expect them to be able to put in a 4x or greater ? THat is a tall order and the laser s are going to be expensive to produce .


I'm thinking 2x is about where things will be at . Perhaps 1x if yields of 2x are bad

Maybe not "mass" production, but Blu-Ray players have been around since 2003. TDK has got working 6x Blu-Ray players and discs (as far as I know) and in a years time i'm sure they'll be able to start mass-producing 4x at the very least.

Also, I think Sony is skipping 2x and going straight for 4x. At least, that's what I heard. Anyone confirm?

 

[jvd]

Maybe not "mass" production, but Blu-Ray players have been around since 2003. TDK has got working 6x Blu-Ray players and discs (as far as I know) and in a years time i'm sure they'll be able to start mass-producing 4x at the very least.

Also, I think Sony is skipping 2x and going straight for 4x. At least, that's what I heard. Anyone confirm?

Got links to these tdk players or articles on them ?

as for mass production they have had limited runs of 1x drives i doubt they've even made the amount that sony will need for a ps3 launch

 

[Boke]

Bah.. nevermind got my bits and bytes mixed up.

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

Thanks JVD.

Found some data... seems it's something like 65mW to 5mW... or so... I'm still reading through them... so I dunno how the accurate that is, but noticable difference...


http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/cx_news/vol40/pdf/sld3233vf.pdf
http://ykuo.ncue.edu.tw/publication/J012-SPIE%20Proc%203419%20(1998)%20110-118.pdf

 

[c0_re]

yea well IGN has never been the know all source for technical information

 

[coldstorm]

"The numbers I have for the X360 12X DVD is that it runs about 133.96 Mbps thats about 16 MB/s. ( Is that correct? ) "

I'm pretty sure the sustained read rate for a 12x DVD drive is more like 16Mbps.

dvd is approximately 11.1 Mb/s (1.38MB/s) for 1x
so it's right.
substain read speed normall work out to be about 2x less drive speed with my dvd drives so about 13.875 MB/s

 

[zidane1strife]

3-6x would be where it's at. Let's hope.

 

[mckmas8808]

Got links to these tdk players or articles on them ?

*raises hand*

Uh sir I do, I do pick me, pick me.

TDK Advancements Unlock Blu-ray Disc’s Potential
TDK’s technology is redefining state-of-the-art optical media specifications and performance. The company’s advanced sputtering technology played a key role in enabling the creation of the prototype100GB Blu-ray Disc. Additionally, TDK’s new inorganic film formulation provides absolute stability with narrow track pitches and high recording densities, such as those employed by the Blu-ray Disc format. The formulation’s optical qualities are so stable that TDK has already been able to achieve 6x (216Mbps) recording speed in the lab with blue laser media.

Yes that's 216 Mbps!!!

Link http://www.tdk-europe.presscentre.c...ase.asp?ReleaseID=2204&NID=Press Releases

 

[Xenus]

Only a slight note you do know that says recording speed so the read speed is actually higher than that.

 

[jvd]

Right in the lab . Not in a mass production device . Two diffrent things and i'm not sure i believe that it will change in the next 5-7 months when sony has to start producing the bluray drives for a spring launch

 

[Megadrive1988]

Didn't Sony surprise the world with the DVD drive speed that they put inside the PS2? I forgot the number but wasn't it faster than most DVD players at the time?

jvd they do have a 6X working now in the lab so... I don't know.

nope.

PS2 DVD drive was 4x. launched in March 2000. my Dell PC that I bought in August 1999 had a 6x DVD drive, and that was not even the fastest for PCs at the time, I think 8x was.


I expect a 2x Blu-ray drive for PS3. if we are really lucky, a 4x drive, but that's pushing it, IMO.

a 6x drive? impossible for PS3's price and launch timeframe.

 

[-tkf-]

How fast will the optical disc drive be?

Blu-ray technology transfers at 36.5Mbps at 1X speed, or about 4.5MB per second. If the PlayStation 3 needed to load 128MB at the start of a level, it would take nearly 30 seconds (assuming nothing is cached on a HDD). If it were to load 256MB, we're talking almost a minute. 2X or even 4X speeds would cut this time down either by 1/2 or by 1/4.

So after reading this thread we already know the 36.5Mps is wrong, it will be at least 54Mbps or 6.3MB pr sec. 1xspeed DVD is around 10Mbit, so 5 times faster, but 16 times more memory IF we say it's 1xspeed drives..

Well not exactly blazing speed, i'm more worried about games that stream data from the disc though, as this generation so clearly showed, it's more a question of how good the developers handle the loading than the technology.

 

[coldstorm]

BenQ demonstrated its BW1000 prototype blue-laser DVD burner at the recently concluded Computex 2005 and the company plans to start volume producing the product in the first or second quarter of 2006, depending on how quickly the market for blue-laser products develops.

The BW1000 features writing speeds of 2x for Blu-ray single-layer and DL (single-sided double-layer) discs, 12x for DVD+R/-R, 4x for DVD+R/-R DL, 4x for DVD+RW/-RW, 32x for CD-R and 24x for CD-RW, as well as reading speeds of 2x for Blu-ray, 12x for DVD and 32x for CD, according to BenQ.

i don't think we see any 4x drive (out of labs) till end of 2006

 

[PARANOiA]

I also don't expect more than 2x. I fear that by putting out more than that, there will be a horrible defect rate.

I've had a nasty history of defect consoles just out of warranty period My PS1 (bought at launch) had a CD drive that died about two weeks after warranty expired . And they weren't cheap at launch.

 

[wco81]

Worst case scenario, PS3 has long load times like PS1, PS2 and PSP, all of which had faster-loading competitors.

Everyone would like faster load times but long load times appear to be tolerated.

 

[DemoCoder]

This IGN calculation is flawed since it ignores pipelining. The only calculation that matters is how long until enough data can be loaded to start displaying something.

The reality is, many game engines cheat. They load up some data, and start displaying splash screens or the start screen, continuing to load in the background. Then when the game is started, they load a little more. The rest of the game is streamed in.

IGN assumes a "load up everything, and then start" scenario, which is the worst case, and annoying as hell ON PC SHOOTERs. Half-Life was the first FPS to demostrate what non-30-to-60 second level loads could look like.

There are many PC games that have agonizingly long load times, while sporting an order of magnitude better I/O performance.

It's the subjective load time that really matters.

 

[Fafalada]

There are many PC games that have agonizingly long load times, while sporting an order of magnitude better I/O performance.

By no fault of I/O performance though - blame the software for that. Fact is that games with bad load times don't even come close to utilizing the read speed of the external storage.
Now on optical discs that's usually the fault of bad data management - seek times can trivially reduce your read speed by an order of magnitude (and more).
Faster BRD drive would help making things easier - but it will help the "least" with games that would have bad load times anyway.

It's the subjective load time that really matters.

I agree, but people will continue blaming hardware for it because that's what they learned in transition from cartridge to optical.

Worst case scenario, PS3 has long load times like PS1, PS2 and PSP, all of which had faster-loading competitors.

Well these aren't really all the same thing though. PSP drives are well - pretty damn slow, and they have to compete with cartridges.
PS2 on the other hand had a fast drive, the reason for bad load times is purely software fault there.

 

[pipo]

PS2 on the other hand had a fast drive, the reason for bad load times is purely software fault there.

Well, that also depends on the type of game you're doing...

 

[Phil]

PS2 on the other hand had a fast drive, the reason for bad load times is purely software fault there.

Well, that also depends on the type of game you're doing...

After seeing Jak & Daxter, I'm inclined to think that just about *any* game regardless of the type can optimize load times in a way that it's quite tolerable and makes the best out of the drives performance.

I think it's less the type of the game that matters, but the approach at how the developers tackle the loading routines.