Loco Roco PSP...pure awesomeness in your hand

[ROG27]

I saw this game some time ago...but now 1up.com has a great interview with the game designer and what inspired him. The game is the best thing to hit the PSP since Katamari Damacy hit the PS2.

http://www.1up.com/flat/Themeweek/MegaTen/video1.html

 

[NANOTEC]

Kinda ironic that this great game concept doesn't require the PSP's 3d graphic power in any way.

 

[mckmas8808]

Just plan great. I will be buying this game day one.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm really liking the 2D stuff appearing on PSP. This does look to me to be one of the best creations for PSP. it'd be nice if it could use the tilt sensor (and Sony actually release the tilt sensor... )

And NANOTEC : Vector rendering power doesn't have to be used with a 3D perspective camera. If the blobs are vector shapes it's using the '3D graphics power' to good effect. Those graphics are beautifully organic and curvaceous with not a polygon edge in sight. I wish more games did similar, rendering 2D style games but with smooth and highly antialiased 2D vector-based graphics.

 

[NANOTEC]

I'm really liking the 2D stuff appearing on PSP. This does look to me to be one of the best creations for PSP. it'd be nice if it could use the tilt sensor (and Sony actually release the tilt sensor... )

And NANOTEC : Vector rendering power doesn't have to be used with a 3D perspective camera. If the blobs are vector shapes it's using the '3D graphics power' to good effect. Those graphics are beautifully organic and curvaceous with not a polygon edge in sight. I wish more games did similar, rendering 2D style games but with smooth and highly antialiased 2D vector-based graphics.

You don't need much power to render those graphics 3D or not. That's why it's ironic that this great game concept doesn't even require 3D let alone powerful 3D. The concept behind PSP is it's powerful 3D rendering capability yet this game doesn't even need it..very ironic I'd say.

 

[mckmas8808]

The concept behind PSP is it's powerful 3D rendering capability yet this game doesn't even need it..very ironic I'd say.

Okay it is ironic, but lets not go overboard.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You don't need much power to render those graphics 3D or not. That's why it's ironic that this great game concept doesn't even require 3D let alone powerful 3D. The concept behind PSP is it's powerful 3D rendering capability.

Perhaps that's all it is to you. I always thought it was a portable entertainment device though. Movie and mp3 playback don't need 3D rendering capabilities but they are quintessential to PSP. And for games, PlayStation to me has always meant diversity. Games like Lumines aren't 3D, but aren't out of place on the PSP. I also don't think there's many other handhelds with the power to handle these visuals either. PSPs vector renderings capabilities (which is what 3D graphics are - they're not really 3D at all, but drawing of 2D triangles based on mathematical transformations of 3D vertex datasets) obviously aren't being pushed to the max, but there's a lot of vector detail in some of those scenes. It's not a 2D only game, using 2D bitmap sprites, that GBA could manage, for example. I don't think DS could manage it either at the same quality, but couldn't say for sure without techspecs for the game.

 

[xmu]

I downloaded the demo of Locoroco from Sony stand at GDC and was totally blown away. Even though it was only one level, I played it over and over. Just insanely fun & addictive. The world is so full of life, like the red elevator kind of big thing that starts smiling as it lifts you up.

I also showed it to a bunch of people at GDC and what really impressed me about the game was how fast everyone learned the controls. Everyone was up & running in just a few seconds. It was super hard to get my PSP back

 

[_xxx_]

This game is so awsome. This game alone could make me buy a PSP, just pure condensed fun.

 

[NANOTEC]

Perhaps that's all it is to you. I always thought it was a portable entertainment device though. Movie and mp3 playback don't need 3D rendering capabilities but they are quintessential to PSP. And for games, PlayStation to me has always meant diversity. Games like Lumines aren't 3D, but aren't out of place on the PSP. I also don't think there's many other handhelds with the power to handle these visuals either. PSPs vector renderings capabilities (which is what 3D graphics are - they're not really 3D at all, but drawing of 2D triangles based on mathematical transformations of 3D vertex datasets) obviously aren't being pushed to the max, but there's a lot of vector detail in some of those scenes. It's not a 2D only game, using 2D bitmap sprites, that GBA could manage, for example. I don't think DS could manage it either at the same quality, but couldn't say for sure without techspecs for the game.

We're not talking about PSP as a whole. We're talking about graphics and processing power for games. Movies and music are not games. Graphics processing power is the main thrust behind PSP's gaming capability. It's not about game diversity because every game console is about game diversity. That's like saying a car is about transportation. Are there any great original games on PSP that takes advantage of PSP's power? Or are all the great games using simple graphics like this one? It seems all the PSP games that push PSP's graphics power are watered down PS2 games.

 

[mckmas8808]

That's like saying a car is about transportation. Are there any great original games on PSP that takes advantage of PSP's power? Or are all the great games using simple graphics like this one? It seems all the PSP games that push PSP's graphics power are watered down PS2 games.

To me I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle. To answer your question I would respond with "Pursuit Force", but then you will reply with something like, "Pursuit Force isn't 100% new and blah blah blah game from 1996 had the same techniques therefore your answer is incorrect try again."

I've played and seen this game played before 1 million times already. But yes your right, so far most of the original games on the PSP do not push the 3D capabilities. But is anything wrong with that? I mean the PSP has only been out in NA for 13 months and Europe for 7.

Is there a problem?

 

[NANOTEC]

To me I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle. To answer your question I would respond with "Pursuit Force", but then you will reply with something like, "Pursuit Force isn't 100% new and blah blah blah game from 1996 had the same techniques therefore your answer is incorrect try again."

I've played and seen this game played before 1 million times already. But yes your right, so far most of the original games on the PSP do not push the 3D capabilities. But is anything wrong with that? I mean the PSP has only been out in NA for 13 months and Europe for 7.

Is there a problem?

Even if PF is great that's still only ONE game. If you wanted to sell PSP to a gamer who's only interested in games and not multimedia capabilites how would you do it? 3D graphics power? Price? Great game concepts like this game doesn't require powerful 3D graphics so why would I buy a PSP based on 3D graphics power that SONY is trying to sell? Why doesn't the PSP have original games that push the hardware? Why can't they make a game that is both original while at the same time push the graphics? Isn't that the goal of gaming on PSP?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If you wanted to sell PSP to a gamer who's only interested in games and not multimedia capabilites how would you do it? 3D graphics power? Price? Great game concepts

All three, though mostly games they enjoy playing. A device with the best graphics ever and super cheap price won't sell if the games are boring as mud, whereas a device with good games can get away with poor graphics.

like this game doesn't require powerful 3D graphics so why would I buy a PSP based on 3D graphics power that SONY is trying to sell?

Because you can't get this game on any other platform, and as I said earlier, I don't think any other platform has the power to render this game either.

Why doesn't the PSP have original games that push the hardware?

When you say 'push the hardware' all you mean is fancy graphics. Mercury is said to run at near the processing limit of PSP. You won't get that on any other current handheld because they don't have the processing power. Likewise LocoRoco has some nice physics going on. And mostly, you won't get original games because they're aren't that many. Why doesn't XB360 have original games that push the hardware? Why are they all racers and shooters and platformers? Because that's what most games are. What games are original? Things like Geometry Wars, which isn't pushing XB360's graphical powers. Of course, that's a clone of an older game. Most games aren't original, but evolutions of existing genres. You're argument against PSP applies to other devices too, you know.

Why can't they make a game that is both original while at the same time push the graphics? Isn't that the goal of gaming on PSP?

No, the PSP is about producing good games. They don't all have to complexly lit photorealistically 3D games. If the game design works best with simple graphics, you use simple graphics. How else would you do LocoRoco? What would you change? Fill everything with textures just because you can? Add 10,000 falling flowers every frame just because you can? Keep adding graphics that detract from the main gameplay until you've maxxed out the graphics power of the handheld?

Honestly, don't ever become a game designer! Or worse, one of the publishers that decides what to fund. You'd have turned down things like Tetris saying they aren't graphically demanding enough, and you'd decline LocoRoco until it's been changed into a 3D photorealistic graphically demanding mess that loses the nice, striking style and simple, eyecatching graphics. Simple 2D can contribute more to gameplay than 3D in some cases. Lemmings is a good example. What worked in 2D didn't in 3D, became too complex, but publishers wouldn't produce 2D games because 3D was the new craze and everything had to be 3D regardless of how that affcted gameplay. Worms is another example where the 3D transformation, demanded by the publisher and not intended by the game designers, made for a more awkward, complex, less fun game. A game's graphic design should always match the game, and never be matched to the hardware just for the sake of putting transistors to use.

 

[NANOTEC]

Why doesn't XB360 have original games that push the hardware? Why are they all racers and shooters and platformers? Because that's what most games are. What games are original? Things like Geometry Wars, which isn't pushing XB360's graphical powers. Of course, that's a clone of an older game. Most games aren't original, but evolutions of existing genres. You're argument against PSP applies to other devices too, you know.

Poor analogy. Home consoles were never expected to have more original games than before. Everyone expects the same games with just better graphics etc. OTOH handhelds are expected to have something unique and different from the home console. Nobody wants to spend money on a handheld to play watered down console games. It's boring.

No, the PSP is about producing good games. They don't all have to complexly lit photorealistically 3D games. If the game design works best with simple graphics, you use simple graphics. How else would you do LocoRoco? What would you change? Fill everything with textures just because you can? Add 10,000 falling flowers every frame just because you can? Keep adding graphics that detract from the main gameplay until you've maxxed out the graphics power of the handheld?

Again that's like saying cars are about transportation, doesn't do much to address the issue. There's only one thing about PSP's hardware that gives it a gaming edge and that's it's graphics processing capability. Why do you think SONY put in a big screen if not to show off the graphics? It's not the interface since there's nothing different about that, it's not the sound, it's not the games. What's left? At the end of the day it's only graphics and no original game pushes the graphics. Why is that? If I wanted simple graphics with great gameplay, I'd buy a GB. Again why would anyone buy a PSP for great games that don't require advanced graphics?

Honestly, don't ever become a game designer! Or worse, one of the publishers that decides what to fund. You'd have turned down things like Tetris saying they aren't graphically demanding enough, and you'd decline LocoRoco until it's been changed into a 3D photorealistic graphically demanding mess that loses the nice, striking style and simple, eyecatching graphics. Simple 2D can contribute more to gameplay than 3D in some cases. Lemmings is a good example. What worked in 2D didn't in 3D, became too complex, but publishers wouldn't produce 2D games because 3D was the new craze and everything had to be 3D regardless of how that affcted gameplay. Worms is another example where the 3D transformation, demanded by the publisher and not intended by the game designers, made for a more awkward, complex, less fun game. A game's graphic design should always match the game, and never be matched to the hardware just for the sake of putting transistors to use.

That's not what I said. I'm saying why should any person who is only interested in great games get a PSP when they could get something else with a bunch of original games and average graphics? There's nothing about the PSP that makes it standout from the other portables other than graphics, yet the great games don't need advanced graphics which can already be found on other handhelds.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Poor analogy. Home consoles were never expected to have more original games than before. Everyone expects the same games with just better graphics etc. OTOH handhelds are expected to have something unique and different from the home console. Nobody wants to spend money on a handheld to play watered down console games. It's boring.

If a game is good on console, why is it boring on PSP? Handhelds aren't, for 100% of the gaming population, about games that can't be played on consoles, and it's wrong to assume everyone wants non-console like games on PSP. Some do, and some don't. eg. PES on PSP is a very good way to play sociable football gaming anywhere. Handheld gaming is about being able to play games you like when and where you like, whether those games are simple pick-up-and-play games or sports sims of FPSs.

There's only one thing about PSP's hardware that gives it a gaming edge and that's it's graphics processing capability.

You're ignoring the very good processing power. nGage and DS aren't able to play Mercury because they couldn't process the phyisics fast enough.

. Why do you think SONY put in a big screen if not to show off the graphics?

To play portable movies in a handheld, for one reason.

it's not the games.

A large highres screen is a great boon for games. Lemmings, or worms, or Soccer, benefit greatly from the larger playing area.

If I wanted simple graphics with great gameplay, I'd buy a GB.

Except a GB isn't going to manage LocoRoco's graphics. As I've said, a DS probably wouldn't manage them either. They're quite high poly vector graphics, not all bitmaps. Also what if you want simple graphics with great gameplay AND complex games with good graphics and great gameplay like Syphon Filter AND portable console gaming for when you want to play those console favourites like PES when out and about? PSP gives you choices.

I'm saying why should any person who is only interested in great games get a PSP when they could get something else with a bunch of original games and average graphics?

And I've already answered that several times, though this is totally off topic and I don't know why your comments on this game are just about the value of PSP as a gaming platform. You seem to have been concerned only with saying that this game shows how pointless PSP's 3D abilities are

If you want to play complex multiplayer games like Syphon Filter and PES without being tied to a TV, PSP is the only handheld platform worth considering. If you want processor-demanding games like Mercury, PSP is the only platform to go with. If you want fun 2D games like Worms or Lemmings that aren't claustraphobically small in the playing field department like GBA and DS, PSP is the only platform to satisfy. If you want portable 2D games that are substantially animated using striking vector based graphics instead of static bitmaps, the only platform with the graphics power to pull that off at the moment is PSP. If want a platform that plays fun, simple games, you can get a GBA, but if you want a platform that can do those games AND more complex and graphically impressive games like Syphon Filter, giving you more choice, PSP is the only option. You can buy a GBA and get fun games with simple graphics. You can get a DS with great games and some varied graphics. But neither of those is going to offer the range as PSP does. Neither of those is going to give you the console PES experience sat out under a tree on a sunny afternoon playing with your friends. Neither of those is going to let you roll a blob of mercury around a complex series of puzzles. And if the only reason to buy a PSP is for games, and you are attracted to the games on GBA and/or DS too, you'd probably be wasting your money on the system. PSP isn't and never was just a games machine. If you're only buying it for games, but don't want portable console games and don't care for improved graphics and aren't too fussed to have different styles of games ranging from 2D shooters and puzzlers to 3D racers and FPS, go grab one of the cheaper handhelds! You weren't Sony's intended audience anyway.

 

[DUALDISASTER]

If a game is good on console, why is it boring on PSP? Handhelds aren't, for 100% of the gaming population, about games that can't be played on consoles, and it's wrong to assume everyone wants non-console like games on PSP. Some do, and some don't. eg. PES on PSP is a very good way to play sociable football gaming anywhere. Handheld gaming is about being able to play games you like when and where you like, whether those games are simple pick-up-and-play games or sports sims of FPSs.
You're ignoring the very good processing power. nGage and DS aren't able to play Mercury because they couldn't process the phyisics fast enough.To play portable movies in a handheld, for one reason. A large highres screen is a great boon for games. Lemmings, or worms, or Soccer, benefit greatly from the larger playing area.
Except a GB isn't going to manage LocoRoco's graphics. As I've said, a DS probably wouldn't manage them either. They're quite high poly vector graphics, not all bitmaps. Also what if you want simple graphics with great gameplay AND complex games with good graphics and great gameplay like Syphon Filter AND portable console gaming for when you want to play those console favourites like PES when out and about? PSP gives you choices.
And I've already answered that several times, though this is totally off topic and I don't know why your comments on this game are just about the value of PSP as a gaming platform. You seem to have been concerned only with saying that this game shows how pointless PSP's 3D abilities are

If you want to play complex multiplayer games like Syphon Filter and PES without being tied to a TV, PSP is the only handheld platform worth considering. If you want processor-demanding games like Mercury, PSP is the only platform to go with. If you want fun 2D games like Worms or Lemmings that aren't claustraphobically small in the playing field department like GBA and DS, PSP is the only platform to satisfy. If you want portable 2D games that are substantially animated using striking vector based graphics instead of static bitmaps, the only platform with the graphics power to pull that off at the moment is PSP. If want a platform that plays fun, simple games, you can get a GBA, but if you want a platform that can do those games AND more complex and graphically impressive games like Syphon Filter, giving you more choice, PSP is the only option. You can buy a GBA and get fun games with simple graphics. You can get a DS with great games and some varied graphics. But neither of those is going to offer the range as PSP does. Neither of those is going to give you the console PES experience sat out under a tree on a sunny afternoon playing with your friends. Neither of those is going to let you roll a blob of mercury around a complex series of puzzles. And if the only reason to buy a PSP is for games, and you are attracted to the games on GBA and/or DS too, you'd probably be wasting your money on the system. PSP isn't and never was just a games machine. If you're only buying it for games, but don't want portable console games and don't care for improved graphics and aren't too fussed to have different styles of games ranging from 2D shooters and puzzlers to 3D racers and FPS, go grab one of the cheaper handhelds! You weren't Sony's intended audience anyway.

WOW! Way to put it! But i do wanna go off topic and ask is the PSP soon to "close shop"? I heard PSP does not have the edge anywhere now.

 

[NANOTEC]

If a game is good on console, why is it boring on PSP?

The PSP version is always watered down. If PSP had 90% accurate ports, it'd be a different story sadly that's not the case.

You're ignoring the very good processing power. nGage and DS aren't able to play Mercury because they couldn't process the phyisics fast enough.

I don't buy that. I think DS can cope with the physics just fine IMO.

To play portable movies in a handheld, for one reason.

How is that related to games? Not interested in discussing media abilities...again.

A large highres screen is a great boon for games. Lemmings, or worms, or Soccer, benefit greatly from the larger playing area.

That's not what I meant. I was saying it's not the PSP games that make PSP standout because frankly most of the games are watered down console ports.

Except a GB isn't going to manage LocoRoco's graphics. As I've said, a DS probably wouldn't manage them either. They're quite high poly vector graphics, not all bitmaps. Also what if you want simple graphics with great gameplay AND complex games with good graphics and great gameplay like Syphon Filter AND portable console gaming for when you want to play those console favourites like PES when out and about? PSP gives you choices.

You don't need to render everything using vector graphics. You only need to render the liquid blob. Heck you can even use 2d graphics to achieve the same trick and nobody would even notice. Anyway if PSP had more games like this and SONY lowers the price to $200 I might get one, but right now there's not much incentive imo.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The PSP version is always watered down. If PSP had 90% accurate ports, it'd be a different story sadly that's not the case.

The games may be watered down (it is a handheld after all!) but if they are games people want to play shouldn't they be allowed to make that choice? You seem to be saying that unless a PSP variation of a console game is as good as the console version, it shouldn't be made. But in the case of something like PES, it's the best version you can get on handheld. I'd rather have the chance to play PES in 'watered down' flavour then not be able to play it at all.

I don't buy that. I think DS can cope with the physics just fine IMO.

In the context of the given example, Mercury, the develop said that it was maxing out the PSP's processing capabilities to model the fluid in up to sixteen parts. If so, a DS with much less processing power isn't going to be able to handle that, no?

How is that related to games?

It isn't, but then a lot of features of PSP aren't necessarily targetted at games. You asked why did Sony include the large screen if not to show off their 3D graphics. I answer, to show off their movies. Perhaps if PSP wasn't a media player too Sony would have chosen a smaller screen, although I doubt it. Bigger screens and higher resolutions are better for games. You could maybe still play Doom 3 on 640x480, but who'd choose to play it at that when they're are higher resolutions available? Anyway, you can't fairly say PSP games are all about 3D graphics and that's why the screen is so big. Big screens aren't there just for the benefit of 3D graphics.

That's not what I meant. I was saying it's not the PSP games that make PSP standout because frankly most of the games are watered down console ports.

If that's the opinon you are having, that wasn't what you were saying, nor was it at all relevant to this thread. I think you should have started a new thread saying 'why PSP doesn't appeal to me' or somesuch, rather than finding a thread about a game and expressing your disappointment in PSPs library in that.

You don't need to render everything using vector graphics. You only need to render the liquid blob. Heck you can even use 2d graphics to achieve the same trick and nobody would even notice.

I'm not convinced of that. Static 2D sprites aren't going to form around the scenery, not without some extreme programming and processing achieving the same thing as the vector rendering anyway. 2D sprite based graphics aren't going to do so well in the zooming in and out either, and I'm not sure about the smooth rotation in high quality. That may be possible, but I haven't seen anything like that on GBA to date. Someone point me to an example if there is one. I know Bob's Bad Day on Amiga had similar fullscreen rotation though with very simple levels, but of course that didn't have hardware support for sprite rotation. Certainly from a programming POV a vector method makes the most sense for this style of visuals.

Anyway if PSP had more games like this and SONY lowers the price to $200 I might get one, but right now there's not much incentive imo.

As I mention above, if that was your point from the beginning, you chose the wrong thread to make it in! This thread should be about LocoRoco, what people like about it, what people don't like about it, how it may be achieving some effect or other, etc. It's not ideally suited for discussion of a whole platform.

 

[mckmas8808]

That's not what I meant. I was saying it's not the PSP games that make PSP standout because frankly most of the games are watered down console ports.

What is this watered down port stuff that you crying about? Regardless if you like it or not people actually want to play games like Madden while driving to the beach on vacation. But getting console franchises on a handheld like the new Ace Combat and Me and My Katamiri are and will be good buys also. Why can't you understand this concept? Handheld gaming was not created for "unique only" expirences.

And then after saying that you still have exclusives like Daxter, Syphon Filter, and Pursuit Force to enjoy for those powerful 3D expirences that you can't get anywhere else.

You don't need to render everything using vector graphics. You only need to render the liquid blob. Heck you can even use 2d graphics to achieve the same trick and nobody would even notice. Anyway if PSP had more games like this and SONY lowers the price to $200 I might get one, but right now there's not much incentive imo.

Sony has as far as remember did lower the price of the PSP to $199. Well it doesn't come with of the extra stuff, so they are or will be selling for $199.99. So maybe will may buy one now eh?

 

[mckmas8808]

WOW! Way to put it! But i do wanna go off topic and ask is the PSP soon to "close shop"? I heard PSP does not have the edge anywhere now.

Seriously guys what did Sony do to you? Did Sony punch your mother in the face or something? Close shop? What does this even mean? Do you mean is Sony going to get out of a very profitable business selling handheld hardware and software just because they didn't overtake Nintendo in 16 months; even though Nintendo had a 95+% market share before Sony got in?

There must be some lost in translation stuff going on. Has to be. Right?