Life of Black Tiger [PS4] and other shit games that show a lack of QA on PSN

You're confusing a poor decision with an uninformed one.

No, I'm not. Some things can be great but not great for you as an individual Those type of things are risky to buy without making the effort to try them first.

I've made a few uninformed decisions in my life and learned from them. I've made a few poor decisions and learned from them. I buy a lot of things and I'm happy with the things I buy. So I'm either statistically unlikely or I'm doing something other people are not. If I can do it, they can do it. Anything you're not sure going to enjoy? Don't buy them if you can't return them other than under statutory consumer rights. If you don't like PSN's refund policy, don't buy a PlayStation - or don't buy another.

Learn. Adapt. Change. Not rocket science. :nope:
 
You're being an ass and ignored all my points in that post. Most people do research - we don't want the waste of time and effort of buying and returning products. We're not advocating a world where people randomly buy goods and return them until they find something they like. It's a request to implement a feature possible for digital goods that most closely approximates the principle of buying in a physical store where you can examining the product before a purchase.

Most importantly, your view doesn't seem based on it being problematic for game developers or too complicated or on any meaningful principle, and simply that you want to make people's life harder for evolutionary purposes. And you want everyone to stop suggesting improvements in services and to just buy alternatives or accept everything as it is.

Learn. Adapt. Change. Equally applicable to businesses wanting to maximise custom, for whom they need feedback to learn and then need to do something about it.
 
You're being an ass and ignored all my points in that post.

You points are all the same but with types of product in each post. Shoes. Guitar pedals. Waterproof overshoes. Headphones. It's not that I'm ignoring your points it's that you're not making any point that isn't countered by deciding not to buy something you're absolutely sure about from somebody that will not refund you if the items don't suit you - for whatever reason.

Retailers who offer more flexible refund schemes are doing so at their expense, hedging the risk that genuine returns and potential loss on non-resaleable items is offset by more people chose to purchase goods from them because of said refund policy. The same principle on which people buy insurance.

The saying 'vote with your wallet' has never been more apt. If you don't like Sony's refund policy then avoid buying from Sony as much as possible. I have since I discovered their change in refund policy. Games I would previously bought on PlayStation I've bought on Steam. If Sony want that to change, they need to change their refund policy.

Research! :yep2:
 
Not everyone watches YouTube regularly. On top of that some YouTube streamers are paid by developers (in various ways) to give good reviews/impressions of games regardless of how good/bad a game is. On top of that the more obscure a game is, the more likely it is to be covered by an unknown or relatively unknown YouTuber.

Which means it's very easy to go to YouTube to look up footage of a game and run into a situation where the channel owner is incentivized to give a good impression of a game regardless of the actual quality of the game. And because a person may not be familiar with who the established YouTuber's are, may just use that to cement their decision to buy a game they are unsure about.

Regular YouTube viewers will be aware of this, but people that don't regularly watch YouTube game channels are unlikely to be aware of it and if they are aware of it, may not know which channels are trustworthy. I've watched one YouTuber (Wanderbots) grow from about 10-20 views per video to now 100's of views per video. In the past he'd regularly comment on how difficult it is to get review copy and how much easier it is to get if you have a reputation among indie devs of giving good impressions in exchange for early access to their games.

As well, because the more established YouTuber's get thousands of game codes every month, smaller titles are rarely covered by more established YouTuber's. And that's not a typo, there are multiple video's of TotalBiscuit where he mentions this, and that it is impossible to determine which are the good ones and which are the bad ones before playing them. And that there is no time to play more than single digit percentages of them each month enough (2-4 hours) to get a good idea of how good the title actually is.

That means that most indie titles end up getting covered by smaller YouTubers that are more desperate to get review copy and thus more incentivized to give good impressions in hopes that it'll increase their chances of getting review copy in the future.

BTW - That YouTuber, Wanderbots? Now that his channel has grown a bit, he covers far FAR less obscure indie titles than he used to because it's become easier for him to get access to better indie titles. As well, he doesn't have to shotgun (IE - take a chance on as many titles as possible) random titles in order to try to get his channel off the ground.

IE - YouTube isn't the greatest place to go to try to find honest impressions of obscure indie titles.

Regards,
SB

Then people need to apply to YouTube the same principle that they apply when looking at reviewed products on Amazon: look at more than one review. Certain points will crop up time and again, regardless of outlet, and straightforward gameplay footage should give you some indication of whether you'll like it.

For example, Kevin Smith doesn't say anything bad about anything, but, you can take his lack of enthusiasm for certain aspects of films as being a damning indictment, especially when other outlets have been plainly critical of those same aspects.

To make my stance clear: I think some kind of returns policy is better than there not being one, but I don't think it's that bad when such a policy isn't in place. If it's a big title with a big price, there will be reviews abound; if it's a smaller title with a lower price, there may be fewer reviews, but it's in the territory of being worth a gamble.

If a game costs less than 5 pints, I don't particularly care if it isn't great, at least it won't give me a hangover.
 
Then people need to apply to YouTube the same principle that they apply when looking at reviewed products on Amazon: look at more than one review. Certain points will crop up time and again, regardless of outlet, and straightforward gameplay footage should give you some indication of whether you'll like it.

And even if you share one persons views on one genre, they may vary on another. It's always worthwhile to sample multiple opinions. Especially if they are from people you are not familiar with :yep2:
 
If you buy an album and don’t like the music, you typically can’t return it for a full refund.
Only because you can't ensure the retrieval of the music from the person, it's easy to copy. With digital store purchases, it's locked to that playstation and can be easily removed.

One thing to note about Steam. The only reason they added 2 hour refunds was due to a multi-million lawsuit they lost in Australia. I guess they could have only added it in Australia, but I can't imagine the rest of the world would have liked that.
 
I’m sorry, but you’re not allowed to make that claim.
You're right. Not appropriate wording where it's in fact not an option unless that functionality is available. IMO it's a significant factor.
 
Having less restrictions on Software released on Steam was something users demanded of Steam, and thus they reduced the restrictions.

This point may be misleading the conversation. Is it true that users demanded this from Steam or was it the aforementioned Australian lawsuit?
 
No, I'm not. Some things can be great but not great for you as an individual Those type of things are risky to buy without making the effort to try them first.

I've made a few uninformed decisions in my life and learned from them. I've made a few poor decisions and learned from them. I buy a lot of things and I'm happy with the things I buy. So I'm either statistically unlikely or I'm doing something other people are not. If I can do it, they can do it. Anything you're not sure going to enjoy? Don't buy them if you can't return them other than under statutory consumer rights. If you don't like PSN's refund policy, don't buy a PlayStation - or don't buy another.

Learn. Adapt. Change. Not rocket science. :nope:

You're being an ass and ignored all my points in that post. Most people do research - we don't want the waste of time and effort of buying and returning products. We're not advocating a world where people randomly buy goods and return them until they find something they like. It's a request to implement a feature possible for digital goods that most closely approximates the principle of buying in a physical store where you can examining the product before a purchase.

Most importantly, your view doesn't seem based on it being problematic for game developers or too complicated or on any meaningful principle, and simply that you want to make people's life harder for evolutionary purposes. And you want everyone to stop suggesting improvements in services and to just buy alternatives or accept everything as it is.

Learn. Adapt. Change. Equally applicable to businesses wanting to maximise custom, for whom they need feedback to learn and then need to do something about it.

I can see both your points ...and not so much whose right or wrong. Personally, I tend to look at PSN, Steam, MSO, Origin and so-on, as super-stores (i.e. Costco, Walmart, Sam's Club, etc...). Lot's of good products to purchase, surrounded by lots other products, sometimes junk, that I'm not interested in. Indie games (even the really bad ones) do have a place, even amongst the good ones. As bad as "Life of Black Tiger," is from a graphical/performance standpoint ...I have seen plenty of young kids enjoying it. Personally, I loathe Minecraft and think it's an eyesore ...yet, there are millions-and-millions of fans that thinks otherwise.

I don't necessarily think quality control of what we deem to be bad games, is the biggest issue with gaming storefronts. But more so the experience (i.e. the layout, format, etc...) and the quality of the interactions between the user and service, that needs improving. Avoiding a bad game is easy, getting twisted into a bunch of shit areas, suggestions, recommendation and/or ads, gets annoying.
 
This point may be misleading the conversation. Is it true that users demanded this from Steam or was it the aforementioned Australian lawsuit?

There have been a vocal contingent of Steam users that have been clamoring for Steam to both improve their refund policy (they've done case by case refunds in the past) and to make it easier for indies to get their software onto Steam (that's what led to the original Greenlight program, but that still wasn't enough for a vocal contingent of users).

Imagine how bad things would have been if Steam had released the floodgates on Indie self publishing without first implementing a method for universal self-refunds.

While the lawsuit in Australia certainly hastened their implementation of refunds, it wasn't the sole push behind it. They were able to implement it so relatively quickly because they'd already been working on it due to concerns the EU would legislate the requirement for refunds for digital goods along with a growing demand for something along those lines from Steam users.

The part you quoted (less restrictions on indie self publishing) was almost purely driven by Steam user demand, however.

Regards,
SB
 
Corporations don't cares about customers, they're collectives of people. They closest they get are understanding the demographics that make up types of customers. When Apple execs say "we care about our customer's privacy" what they mean is they think their customer's prioritise privacy and, more importantly, privacy issues are a liability issue that they and their legal team want to avoid.

That isn't necessarily true. Up until the 1980's prominent universities with a reputation for churning out high quality MBAs had a course requirement for teaching future MBAs responsible management and thinking of customers first.

Hence, almost all major corporations had policies in place for no hassle refunds and comprehensive customer service (Sear's, Macy's, JCPenny's, even K-mart a budget retail chain).

I believe it was Harvard that first removed that requirement due to one of their professors advocating that taking care of the customer wasn't required to have a successful business. And hence they started to churn out the first MBAs that were more focused on maximized business growth (with a focus on stock growth) and hostile take overs of businesses that weren't constantly growing. Other business universities eventually followed suit as they started to see the incoming cash flows to Harvard from their MBAs.

Interesting side note to the above, many prominent business schools are rethinking that approach and are working to revert to pre-1980's curriculums that teach consumer focused management principles as now that we have a large enough sample size to gauge the overall effects of this direction. And that growing consensus is that the predatory practices that had been the focus of MBAs for the past 30-40 years has led to decreased corporate performance across the board (consolidation doesn't lead to healthy corporate environments or healthy corporate culture). Harvard has been near the forefront of this change which is interesting considering how hostile they were to any professor that dared to speak out and question the move away from customer focused MBA courses during the 90's and 2000's, going so far as to fire or censure any professor that questioned the direction of the MBA college.

The decision to offer no question refunds is a conscious decision to engender freer-spending. Consumers are more likely to spend if they can get a refunds. Unfortunately that doesn't remedy the underlying problem of shit software. The cost of many refunds are borne by retailer not the originator of the product. Steam is more complicated because it has different options but I wouldn't assume every refund hits the publisher/developer.

That is true, but it goes far beyond that. It also engenders consumer confidence and loyalty. Not only are they willing to spend more freely, but they are also willing to spend more per product. They are also less likely to want to shop at a competitor or feel compelled to abandon that retailer. They'll also be more willing to urge other people they know to shop at that retailer, increasing the number of customers at that business. Etc. There's a whole host of advantages.

However, you also have to be prepared to deal with and tolerate abuses of the system. One retailer I worked at when I was younger had a generous refund policy. Some people would take advantage of that by walking into the store, grabbing something off the shelf and then going up to customer service and requesting a refund. Refunds were always granted as the customer was always the most important consideration. And while refusing the refund to an abuser would cut down on losses, the inevitable scene that person would make wasn't viewed as something legitimate customers wanted to see. Hence, it was just part of doing business. Only if there was a chronic abuser would action be taken.

It is interesting to note that the company was in growth mode up until they decided to have an IPO and go public around 1995 or 1996. The company became less customer focused and while it initially had a boom in business as new stores were opened due to the cash influx from the IPO, it didn't take long before the business started to go downhill as their reputation started to suffer. Meaning less customers. This in turn led to more reductions in consumer focused policies, etc. Meaning eventual store closures, etc. Now the business struggles to exist as an online storefront. The decline started prior to the advent of mass online consumer spending, but online consumer spending greatly accelerated their decline.

Personal anecdote here. I recently had a problem activating my copy of Windows 10 when I changed the MB, CPU, RAM, and boot drive. I was expecting at best a perfunctory but acceptable customer service call to get it taken care of. I was pleasantly surprised that the quality of customer service was far higher than the last time I had to do something similar (Vista timeframe). I'd like to think that Microsoft overall has gone back to customer focused internal business practices, but it could also just be that I got lucky with getting a great CS representative. :p

Regards,
SB
 
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