Last of Us spoilers
- Thread starter patsu
- Start date
At that point, they should throw in the entire cast, including Yoshi, Luigi, Peach and Mario.
RenegadeRocks
Legend
I'll try on Hard next but I think Survivor would make me frustratedI'm old with poor reflexes and hand/eye coordination!
I notice a few people avoided listen mode. It's actually of limited use as it only shows mobs who are making a noise. Granted most infected do, but humans - unless they are talking with each or muttering "I'm gonna find you", don't. Once the hunt of combat begins, they creep about as quietly as you do.
The Ellie/David hunt in the diner was epic for this although David seemed to constantly walk over broken crockery
I did too. I played the game without Listen mode, it isn't difficult at all. You just listen to thier sounds and make judgements accordingly. The game is perfectly playable without it and makes the game feel like a real stealth or action/survival game. The wall hack makes me think I have some sci-fi device or something. I simply turned it off from the options menu.
I had lpayed the demo before, hence I knew the game works best without it. If I had not played that demo, I wouldn't have had the amazing experience I just did. Still coming to temrs with how good the game was both in terms of gameplay, characters, eir progression and story. Its a miracle they pulled it off, usually something gets lesser attention than the other and becomes lacklustre, but this seems like a perfect package. The future of games has been clearly outlined here. Robust hardcore gameplay with amazingly well done characters and a very subtle story !
I am sure The Last of Us will also spawn a horde of similar games just like Uncharted started the whole 'cinematic' games flood.
you actually see more of the game without listen mode, don't really know how to explain it, like you will try all kind of method to get pass a section and ran into the more random and dynamic gameplay instead of going listen mode, stealth kill, listen mode stealth kill sequence.
RenegadeRocks
Legend
Yup, also you play more decisively, with more precision and more realistically. Also, the game world looks so good and the setting so real that the Wall-hack destroys the disbelief completely. You gather more, spend more wisely and have more near death run aways without it. The game feels so good without it. There are sometimes 5 minutes before I jump into my plan of action as I am trying to get a hang of "how many and where" before I start picking them out. There's that sense of dread, the fear of death around the next corner that just vanishes when you know there's no one around. There were so many instances when I kept crouching and hiding long after everyone was dead as I wasn't sure if everyone was dead ! Hanging on to your 1 slot of health while peeping over corner..the mechanics are so well-tested and robust that you never ever feel cheated if you die....you get so much more out of the game ! No wonder, for me it is unforgettable ! Kudos to the team for balancing the game so well , so damn well !
Played the game multiple times now, and gotta say: Phew, what a game!
The Uncharted series have always been a guilty pleasure for me. "I know the games are good, but I know it's easier to make a game this good when it is this much controlled and scripted, but damn even when things are this scripted most devs would screw up. Yeah, but games are abou freedom..." That's kind of what goes in my mind about those games, and LoU does not change it. It follows pretty much a very similar game design and development style to the Uncharted series, but with a very different theme and tone. Even the improvisational gameplay found here was also part of Uncharted, its just the scarcity of resources that makes it happen more often in LoU than it did then. What LoU does is have a much better story. Uncharted games had great story telling. Great cutscenes and animation, with awsome dialogue and pacing. The game's story naturally led up to gameplay scenarios and those naturaly help tell the story. Something few other devs acomplish so gracefully. But in the end it was all a indiana jones style adventure. Nothing that would realy make you think too much, or get you invested emotionally. LoU changed that.
I DID CRY on the opening. How did Naughty Dog manage to make the death of a girl that was on screen for less than 15min and that I KNEW was going to die from the beginning be so impactfull is astounding. It just goes to show the power of Interactiveness. No movie can touch that. Even the death scene in itself was a little on the clichè side "don't do this to me. Don't do this to me" how many times did you see that in movies? But the execution sold it, the actors, the artists, the animators. And in the back of my head I was thinking "shit, this is what gaming is all about for me, this kind of moment, is what I always wanted to play" no kidding, I really thought that. Since I played Half Life or Ocarina, or MGS, or hell, when I played Monkey Island, I knew games could grow up and go deep. And LoU is it... for now. You see, Half Life was it then, and so was MI... I can't wait for the future. If this is what great devs can pull off now, imagine the kinds of stuff they will do in 10 years. This opening, where all I did was walk around, no shooting, no fighting, to me, was the best moment in the entire game. I think we are reaching a point when we will be able to have a game without a single zombie or military guy or alien, without a single shootout, or any fight, or any jumping. A game with human interaction, dialogue and everyday actions, and have it be as entertaining ( or MORE entertaining, for me at least ) than whatever we have today. But no some bullshit like Heavy Rain. I am thinking more like LA noire, but without the rigid gamey mechanics.
The second best part of the game, was being escorted by Ellie when Joel is hurt. Again, pretty light on actual gaming action, but extremely powerfull because of the context.
It takes balls to develop a game were a 12 year old kid gets shot in the very beginning, and where a 14 year old one has to protect a 40 something guy by killing other adults while one of them says "Those people you shot were my friends you asshole". You can't put that in a game unless you are sure your execution is gonna be flawless. One misstep and your game can seem terribly insensitive.
And the ending was the cherry on the top. Joel's final slaughter of the hole military trained firefly crew was a little tough to swallow ( the problem of making a too good of a game, is small flaws that would have been forgiven in lessen work sticks out much more, and I bet the devs only realise them late in the process) but the cold blooded execution of the surgeons while being called an animal, and the final conversation with Ellie won me over.
My impressions of the ending seem to be very different of those of many people here though. Some sided with Joel, or at least understood him. Some saw it as a happy ending even. The idea of a father's love being more important than anything would make sence in a Uncharted game, or in a pre-infection earth. These are tough people, they do what it takes to survive, and Joel's atachment to Ellie is more of an egoistic need of peace of mind for himself then actual care for the girl. To me it was one of the most cynical, dark and pessimistic endings I've seen in any game or movie to this date. haha, maybe not, but that I can remember right now at least...
To save a girl that was supposed to be dead in the first place (nobody else got a second chance after being bitten) he killed dozens of the firefly, the doctors and their leader, which considered killing Joel when he and Ellie were rescued, but decided to spare him. Joel is latter given the opportunity to spare her, but he doen't think twice before executing her. Latter Ellie herself admits she not only expected her sacrifice was a possibility, but that she even kind of wanted it, as she felt guilty for the deaths of others, her best friend, Tess, and the little boy and his brother. That became even clearer when I replayed the last chapter. Joel is unusually talkative then "When we go back to Boston I'll teach you to play the guitar" and Ellie is more quiet. It's as if she is expecting those to be the last days of her life. She really wants to get to the fireflyes and do whatever it takes to find a cure. "There is no halfway with this. After all we've been through, all I've done... It can't be for nothing" - in her words. But Joel does indeed make it be for nothing. His early chit-chat shows how uninterested he is in the whole vacine thing, which Ellie makes very clear that is a big deal for her. Just AWESOME. No better ending for a story about survival, struggle and humanity. The infection first strike was on humans biological weakness: their health, the second strike was on humanity's organization: society's fragility. And the last blow was on the third: human emotion. The reanimated heart of a father that had hidden himself in a shell for 20 or so years after the loss of his daughter was enough to hold back the salvation of his entire kind. It is ironic, it is harsh, and it's almost comic. I feel like even the final chords in the game's theme song hold a bit of the irony and cynicism of this ending twist to them. And the coolest thing is: the rest of the universe does not give a shit. Plants are growing better than ever without people populating their cities, giraffes and monkeys can roam free in the streets. It sure puts things into perspective.
Great work all around.
The Uncharted series have always been a guilty pleasure for me. "I know the games are good, but I know it's easier to make a game this good when it is this much controlled and scripted, but damn even when things are this scripted most devs would screw up. Yeah, but games are abou freedom..." That's kind of what goes in my mind about those games, and LoU does not change it. It follows pretty much a very similar game design and development style to the Uncharted series, but with a very different theme and tone. Even the improvisational gameplay found here was also part of Uncharted, its just the scarcity of resources that makes it happen more often in LoU than it did then. What LoU does is have a much better story. Uncharted games had great story telling. Great cutscenes and animation, with awsome dialogue and pacing. The game's story naturally led up to gameplay scenarios and those naturaly help tell the story. Something few other devs acomplish so gracefully. But in the end it was all a indiana jones style adventure. Nothing that would realy make you think too much, or get you invested emotionally. LoU changed that.
I DID CRY on the opening. How did Naughty Dog manage to make the death of a girl that was on screen for less than 15min and that I KNEW was going to die from the beginning be so impactfull is astounding. It just goes to show the power of Interactiveness. No movie can touch that. Even the death scene in itself was a little on the clichè side "don't do this to me. Don't do this to me" how many times did you see that in movies? But the execution sold it, the actors, the artists, the animators. And in the back of my head I was thinking "shit, this is what gaming is all about for me, this kind of moment, is what I always wanted to play" no kidding, I really thought that. Since I played Half Life or Ocarina, or MGS, or hell, when I played Monkey Island, I knew games could grow up and go deep. And LoU is it... for now. You see, Half Life was it then, and so was MI... I can't wait for the future. If this is what great devs can pull off now, imagine the kinds of stuff they will do in 10 years. This opening, where all I did was walk around, no shooting, no fighting, to me, was the best moment in the entire game. I think we are reaching a point when we will be able to have a game without a single zombie or military guy or alien, without a single shootout, or any fight, or any jumping. A game with human interaction, dialogue and everyday actions, and have it be as entertaining ( or MORE entertaining, for me at least ) than whatever we have today. But no some bullshit like Heavy Rain. I am thinking more like LA noire, but without the rigid gamey mechanics.
The second best part of the game, was being escorted by Ellie when Joel is hurt. Again, pretty light on actual gaming action, but extremely powerfull because of the context.
It takes balls to develop a game were a 12 year old kid gets shot in the very beginning, and where a 14 year old one has to protect a 40 something guy by killing other adults while one of them says "Those people you shot were my friends you asshole". You can't put that in a game unless you are sure your execution is gonna be flawless. One misstep and your game can seem terribly insensitive.
And the ending was the cherry on the top. Joel's final slaughter of the hole military trained firefly crew was a little tough to swallow ( the problem of making a too good of a game, is small flaws that would have been forgiven in lessen work sticks out much more, and I bet the devs only realise them late in the process) but the cold blooded execution of the surgeons while being called an animal, and the final conversation with Ellie won me over.
My impressions of the ending seem to be very different of those of many people here though. Some sided with Joel, or at least understood him. Some saw it as a happy ending even. The idea of a father's love being more important than anything would make sence in a Uncharted game, or in a pre-infection earth. These are tough people, they do what it takes to survive, and Joel's atachment to Ellie is more of an egoistic need of peace of mind for himself then actual care for the girl. To me it was one of the most cynical, dark and pessimistic endings I've seen in any game or movie to this date. haha, maybe not, but that I can remember right now at least...
To save a girl that was supposed to be dead in the first place (nobody else got a second chance after being bitten) he killed dozens of the firefly, the doctors and their leader, which considered killing Joel when he and Ellie were rescued, but decided to spare him. Joel is latter given the opportunity to spare her, but he doen't think twice before executing her. Latter Ellie herself admits she not only expected her sacrifice was a possibility, but that she even kind of wanted it, as she felt guilty for the deaths of others, her best friend, Tess, and the little boy and his brother. That became even clearer when I replayed the last chapter. Joel is unusually talkative then "When we go back to Boston I'll teach you to play the guitar" and Ellie is more quiet. It's as if she is expecting those to be the last days of her life. She really wants to get to the fireflyes and do whatever it takes to find a cure. "There is no halfway with this. After all we've been through, all I've done... It can't be for nothing" - in her words. But Joel does indeed make it be for nothing. His early chit-chat shows how uninterested he is in the whole vacine thing, which Ellie makes very clear that is a big deal for her. Just AWESOME. No better ending for a story about survival, struggle and humanity. The infection first strike was on humans biological weakness: their health, the second strike was on humanity's organization: society's fragility. And the last blow was on the third: human emotion. The reanimated heart of a father that had hidden himself in a shell for 20 or so years after the loss of his daughter was enough to hold back the salvation of his entire kind. It is ironic, it is harsh, and it's almost comic. I feel like even the final chords in the game's theme song hold a bit of the irony and cynicism of this ending twist to them. And the coolest thing is: the rest of the universe does not give a shit. Plants are growing better than ever without people populating their cities, giraffes and monkeys can roam free in the streets. It sure puts things into perspective.
Great work all around.
Billy Idol
Legend
Good read.
That last level was actually incredibly foreboding. After the winter the player knows that literally anything can happen in this cruel world, so Joel's careless optimism and Ellie's silence are an almost unbearable weight, especially against that beautiful backdrop. As it's an interactive experience and it's the player who has to drive these characters to their end, it's just so much more effective than any movie could be...
Hopefully the apparent success will open the door for more games of this kind. Truth be told I'm not sure how the writing and acting - as good as they may be - in Last of Us could stand up to great cinema if it was a movie... But as a game it really is a memorable piece.
Hopefully the apparent success will open the door for more games of this kind. Truth be told I'm not sure how the writing and acting - as good as they may be - in Last of Us could stand up to great cinema if it was a movie... But as a game it really is a memorable piece.
Oh, it could not stand a chance. Against avarege stuff? Maybe. But against the best out there? No way. That's the sad thing about video game writing, story-telling and animation, the best of the best are only good within the realm of videogames, but they can't compete with movies or literature. Someday maybe... In the other hand, gameplay and interactivity is unexistant in those mediums haha.
Yeah, but maybe, if the writing and acting were stronger, it'd draw you away from the gameplay aspect, rob you of the participation and the involvement it results in...
In the Last of Us, you care about Ellie because it's you who's been listening to her learning to whistle, it's you who's been saving her from thugs, it's you who's been gathering comic books for her, and it's sort of you who's been saved by her. All those stakes you couldn't have for a character in a movie, especially if you've only spent 90 minutes with her.
On the other hand, maybe even better writing and acting would make it even more effective, especially if the same talent was working on the interactive parts. I guess Beyond may be an example of that, but then again maybe not.
In the Last of Us, you care about Ellie because it's you who's been listening to her learning to whistle, it's you who's been saving her from thugs, it's you who's been gathering comic books for her, and it's sort of you who's been saved by her. All those stakes you couldn't have for a character in a movie, especially if you've only spent 90 minutes with her.
On the other hand, maybe even better writing and acting would make it even more effective, especially if the same talent was working on the interactive parts. I guess Beyond may be an example of that, but then again maybe not.
And you know what, it doesn't really matter how the writing and acting can measure up to an Academy Award winning movie, because it's still quite above anything else we've seen in video games so far. I've been thinking about anything similar from previous games but I can't really come up with similar stuff... Yes there's been a lot of great stuff, but some element was always missing - Last of Us has the writing, the acting, the voice acting, the character art, the camera work and the interactivity handled all together as a whole like none other.
RenegadeRocks
Legend
Yup, Joel lost a daughter once, it was to humans not to the infection. This second time again, he knows infection can't take away his daughter, but again its humans who are ! No doubt he killed Marlene without a wince. I am not losing my daughter again, especially when the Infection can't get her she is safe from that side, and I will keep her safe from the humans.
In fact the whole story, as well as gameplay, shows that humans are more scary than the monsters.
And the part which showcases how every hero is also a villain to someone else, the part where David enters the story, the devs setting it up for the end. To make us easy to understand why Joel does what he does in the end. They were readying our minds to grasp the end. Every heroic action we do, we kill another human, another family, another's friend. and every time the others kill you, they do a heroic deed for their family, their group, their friends. Its a dog eat dog world, what would you do to keep your loved ones safe?
The part where we play as Ellie was so moving. We were growing up, taking care of him who has been our Savior all along. But I am a little girl, and the gameplay showcased that, as Ellie didn't have the upgrades of Joel so even though we had to fight in the same world, we were weaker and the game became much harder for a while. Gameplay conveying the feel of the character in temrs of a difficulty spike just shows how meticulous NDs are in their work.
The game has so much love, dedication and attention to detail poured into it that it feels so subtle yet so powerful. The balance is perfect. I have this whole three pages of notes written in my diary about what makes LOU amazing, a kind of a case study, a "highlighting the finer points of the game" but I am unable to put it into a coherent article for my blog. Will keep trying !
In fact the whole story, as well as gameplay, shows that humans are more scary than the monsters.
And the part which showcases how every hero is also a villain to someone else, the part where David enters the story, the devs setting it up for the end. To make us easy to understand why Joel does what he does in the end. They were readying our minds to grasp the end. Every heroic action we do, we kill another human, another family, another's friend. and every time the others kill you, they do a heroic deed for their family, their group, their friends. Its a dog eat dog world, what would you do to keep your loved ones safe?
The part where we play as Ellie was so moving. We were growing up, taking care of him who has been our Savior all along. But I am a little girl, and the gameplay showcased that, as Ellie didn't have the upgrades of Joel so even though we had to fight in the same world, we were weaker and the game became much harder for a while. Gameplay conveying the feel of the character in temrs of a difficulty spike just shows how meticulous NDs are in their work.
The game has so much love, dedication and attention to detail poured into it that it feels so subtle yet so powerful. The balance is perfect. I have this whole three pages of notes written in my diary about what makes LOU amazing, a kind of a case study, a "highlighting the finer points of the game" but I am unable to put it into a coherent article for my blog. Will keep trying
!Sigfried1977
Legend
It's not even in the same ballbark. TR is pure popcorn nonsense with oddly sadistic undertones that reek of cynicism, and the only thing that could've made the big baddie even more obvious would have been an eye-patch. The game is also oblivious to the concept of restraint. If you come across a piece of environment that looks like it's ready to collapse beneath your feet, you can bet your ass that that's exactly what's going to happen. Heck, it's probably going to happen in a more cartoonishly grandiose fashion than you'd have imagined. And with way more quick time events of course. Don't get me wrong, it's actually a really fun game. It is, however, incredibly predictable and the entire survival angle which the cut-scenes relentlessly drum up every chance they get is never in any real danger of crossing over into the actual gameplay parts. It is basically a really gory take on Uncharted.
As for the writing in the game. I actually think it can go toe to toe with some really great movies. I really love how organic, minimalist and well-paced the narrative is, and how it treats me like a person with a certain amount of intelligence instead of going the easy route of explaining every last detail over and over. It's just a joy to watch.
Last edited by a moderator:
I finished the game last night [i played only during nights in 2-3hr sessions, stereo headphones]. I am blown away by serious story, character development, actor performances, attention to detail, incredible worldbuilding and tough choices I saw those characters made. Phenomenal game. One of the best mixes of ranged combat, hand combat, exploration, combat traversal, and character interactions I think I ever saw so far in gaming.
After incredible Winter section, the interactions between Joel and Ellie were so painful to watch. She went trough reall shit, knowing that end is near and Joel was 100% determined to make her happy and safe. Moment with Giraffe was so epic, I knew that good times was over after that. At the end I think that Ellie knew that Joel was lying, and I could see that Joel was afraid in the car and near the Tommy's town that Ellie would confront him... But she accepted the lie with such a hard stare and small nod. Perfect ending.
I played on normal, 13h 15min completion time and I wont replay it for a long time. If they announce PS4 1080p60 version, I will wait for that and then try the maximum difficulty without detective vision.
Btw, here is the new link for 85 min behind the scenes documentary
After incredible Winter section, the interactions between Joel and Ellie were so painful to watch. She went trough reall shit, knowing that end is near and Joel was 100% determined to make her happy and safe. Moment with Giraffe was so epic, I knew that good times was over after that. At the end I think that Ellie knew that Joel was lying, and I could see that Joel was afraid in the car and near the Tommy's town that Ellie would confront him... But she accepted the lie with such a hard stare and small nod. Perfect ending.
I played on normal, 13h 15min completion time and I wont replay it for a long time. If they announce PS4 1080p60 version, I will wait for that and then try the maximum difficulty without detective vision.
Btw, here is the new link for 85 min behind the scenes documentary
I think Red Dead comes pretty close. I always keep an eye for Rockstar's writing, it is always good. Even in the GTAIII days, despite the silly plot, they had some of the greatest radio shows and commercials ever.
I think much better acting and dialogue would only make the gamey aspects stick out more. The constant apearance of thugs to fignt, the ridiculous bodycounts left behind by this one man and a teenage girl, or sometimes just a girl!
That's one gripe I had with winter. Being escorted by ellie was great, as I said. It is a great father daughter situation there. Later hunting the deer, and staying on that shack with Dave (was that his name?) was very good too. All later encounters with Dave's group had Ellie escaping or avoiding combat, wich I found awsome, as "cool, they found a way to have Ellie in danger without making me actually have to fight them because that would just ruin any suspension of disbli..." an then I was made to fight them! haha.
So writing in the Making-good-lines-for-dialogue sense, there isn't really that much to be improved here. But writing in the sense of actually making a story where gameplay situation come in naturally and don't seem odd, that I believe is the most important area to be worked on by ND right now. But that involes a lot of the game design as well, in making more realistic levels, and finding ways to create interesting gameplay that does not need to involve killing things. I'm not saying it is a easy job, it's already tough to believe a dev could have pulled off what they did with LoU as it is now, but the way foward, I think, for story and character heavy games, is in creative gameplay that can be fun and exiting without necessarily involving combat or life threatening things.
Billy Idol
Legend
Damit! The vid is again gone...when is it released in Europe PSN? My season pass preorder should get me access...
Billy Idol
Legend
Yes, I know!? I have bought the season pass for the Last of Us. This includes access to the vid. At the moment, when I try to access it via the ingame menu, it connects to PSN store but an error pops up saying not available at the moment. That is why I ask if someone knows when it is released?
Billy Idol
Legend
What is the purpose of the Giraffe scene? Why Giraffes?
[Head explode]
