Lack of HDD forces Saint's Row to scale back game...

[scooby_dooby]

I can see the 20GB being good for patches, caching, MODs, trailers, video clips, demos and music files. Music files for me would eat up 2GB easily (Even more for some of the people I know). I wish that they would impliment some way of accessing (FULLY) networked storages or shares and make it seem like its local (like mapping a drive). I don't understand why that can't be done.

I'm pretty sure they are implemnting exactly that. A PC HD will act as an external mass storage device and you will be able to get all your musics/pictures off of there.

20GB is plenty of room for everything except Video, KK comments are ridiculous, because storing video on the HDD is not an important feature and is not somthing easily done (i.e. you can't just rip a DVD to your HDD...so where does this content come from?)

20GB is perfect for game caching, downloadable content, game saves, trailers, demo's etc etc, for music that's over 6000 songs, it's a good size.

Any1 - excellent post. Yes 512 MB is standard and any console without it would be at a severe disadvantage, so MS was not including 512 for the gamers, but rather to keep their own product competetive and make more money for themselves.

I just think it's pretty funny that with XBOX1 they went on and on about how HDD adds to games, and allows dev's more freedom to push the system, etc etc, and now Moore actually has the cahones to try an BS us that games won't suffer, and that we should be happy because the console has 512mb of ram, which is standard for next-gen consoles.

Anyways, this thread was just proof for everyone saying "Show me a real world example" well there you are. HDD enables things that would otherwise require workarounds, if the team doesn't have time for the workarounds the features simply get cut. It's irrelevant whether it could or could not be done, because it requires more time/money and there may not always be extra time/money to invest.

Randycat - congrats on being the first person on my ignore list

 

[_phil_]

Anyways, this thread was just proof for everyone saying "Show me a real world example" well there you are. HDD enables things that would otherwise require workarounds, if the team doesn't have time for the workarounds the features simply get cut.

err , maybe they designed and coded their game from the start with HDD in mind,and now they can't go back for millestone reasons ?
did i miss something ?

 

[pipo]

20GB is plenty of room for everything except Video, KK comments are ridiculous, because storing video on the HDD is not an important feature and is not somthing easily done (i.e. you can't just rip a DVD to your HDD...so where does this content come from?)

Ken sees the PS3 as your home server. Use your PSP + WiFi to stream anything anywhere. That's why he thinks it's not enough.

I like the idea, but I'm not sure if a lot of people are going to embrace his vision...

 

[randycat99]

Randycat - congrats on being the first person on my ignore list

This is really quite fine, as the point of our exchange was simply to illustrate that you very well cannot bring "proof" to a point if you are incapable of wielding the numbers appropriately, let alone the right numbers. If you have no concept of what the numbers are, how can you have any insight on the matter you are applying the numbers to? Why even bring up any numbers if you haven't the slightest idea if it helps your case or shoots it? It is very clear that you did not realize the implication of the numbers you provided, nor did you realize that the link to the pdf you supplied tells us nothing at all about the performance of the X360 hdd. That is the breaking point for your argument, unfortunately. There is a difference between "wanting" something to be true and being able to substantiate that something is true. You have simply not been able to cross that threshold. I'm not trying to be rude or mean- just honest.

 

[TrungGap]

Ken sees the PS3 as your home server. Use your PSP + WiFi to stream anything anywhere. That's why he thinks it's not enough.

I like the idea, but I'm not sure if a lot of people are going to embrace his vision...

There are many issues with his vision:

1) Why create a home server on a platform with little support comparing to other platforms such as Linux, Windows, FreeBSD, etc.

2) Why create a dual purpose machine, when its resources are already limited. Do you expect to stream video and audio to the PSP, while playing Killzone 2? Are you going to have bounce emails, during a heavy action?

3) Is he expecting your average Joe to configure it and the network, so you can stream movie to the PSP outside of your local area network? Let alone to lock down the security from intruders.

4) Does he think people prefer to edit their video on the PS3 than using existing applications on the conventional desktop market? Does he expect Adobe going to release Primier on PS3? As the only form of video on *this* server will be home made content, surely he won't let you copy BR movies to the HDD.

5) Do you expect Sony to release it, when he, himself said no harddisk capicity is large enough...in word, it won't be able to stream content, because it won't have a harddisk...it won't have a harddisk, because no harddisk will be large enough.

Let's face it. It's all hyped about the Cell. It will not change the world. It's just another processor (a fast one). However, it's not cheaper than dedicated IC that will powered your fridge or microwave. It's not robust enough to be a general computer (for that price). The Java chip has a higher chance in this space than the Cell.

 

[expletive]

I can see the 20GB being good for patches, caching, MODs, trailers, video clips, demos and music files. Music files for me would eat up 2GB easily (Even more for some of the people I know). I wish that they would impliment some way of accessing (FULLY) networked storages or shares and make it seem like its local (like mapping a drive). I don't understand why that can't be done.

I think if you have a media center PC, this will be the case. Maybe even if you just have XP.

I think you can only use that mapped share for music, movies, photos, becuase everythign system-related probably should has to be a known performance quantity (i.e. the 360 HD).

J

 

[BlueTsunami]

There are many issues with his vision:

1) Why create a home server on a platform with little support comparing to other platforms such as Linux, Windows, FreeBSD, etc.

Isn't the OS supposed to be a Linux variant?

2) Why create a dual purpose machine, when its resources are already limited. Do you expect to stream video and audio to the PSP, while playing Killzone 2? Are you going to have bounce emails, during a heavy action?

I think its supposed to be a server in that you'll be using it when your away from your PS3. So not necisarily as you play the game and use the server at the same time but not using the PS3 and streaming the files. You don't have to multitask in that sense...and it seems like your giving an extreme angle instead of a common more practical one.

3) Is he expecting your average Joe to configure it and the network, so you can stream movie to the PSP outside of your local area network? Let alone to lock down the security from intruders.

I'm not to sure on that front. But they could possibly be setting it up to be as user friendly as possible. Also, that networking aspect could be more directed to the enthusiasts instead of the general gamer. Although....people with PSPs have made an effort to learn how to connect their PSP to their home network (I've followed forum threads on these issues) and it seems the general gaming public is willing to learn and adapt.

4) Does he think people prefer to edit their video on the PS3 than using existing applications on the conventional desktop market? Does he expect Adobe going to release Primier on PS3? As the only form of video on *this* server will be home made content, surely he won't let you copy BR movies to the HDD.

The PS3 "supposedly" comes the ability to automaticaly encode video files. About the applications, i'm not to sure about support (it will probably be non existent) but developers of the OS may make basic apps with the OS. Nothing BIG I can forsee though, like Adobe creating Premier for the PS3 CELL OS.

5) Do you expect Sony to release it, when he, himself said no harddisk capicity is large enough...in word, it won't be able to stream content, because it won't have a harddisk...it won't have a harddisk, because no harddisk will be large enough.

KK keeps refering to a CELL storage. CELL storage here. CELL storage there. I'm not sure if its PR speak or some type of tag that he tried to have catch on but it seems they are reaching for the "Center of the Living Room" approach with the PS3. Reaching that point is anothing issue. They could possibly link with PCs and allow to use remote storage. Its all theorys though....nothing concrete.

Let's face it. It's all hyped about the Cell. It will not change the world. It's just another processor (a fast one). However, it's not cheaper than dedicated IC that will powered your fridge or microwave. It's not robust enough to be a general computer (for that price). The Java chip has a higher chance in this space than the Cell.

Its your opinion if it does EXPLODE or fall flat on its face but this CELL is being equiped in a console that hat a fanbase that will buy it no matter WHAT form it came in. So this is a MEGA push for this processor and it will force Dev departments to learn how to utilize CELL. This should only be benificial to CELL.

About using it in mundane electronics..i'm not to sure about. The only reason I can see it being in a fridge is if the fridge is equiped with some type of advance feature set that allows you to do crazy things with the fridge. With a TV, i'm not to sure either....appearently it has some capabilities to possibly raise image quality? I'm not to sure exactly on that either. All in all we'll see what happens and whats to be said about CELL on or near the launch of the PS3.

NOTE: Thats like the longest post i've done here at B3D...whooo..time to go to sleep.

 

[TrungGap]

Isn't the OS supposed to be a Linux variant?

Are you talking about the Linux OS preinstalled on HDD for hobbyists or the PS3's OS? If it's the PS3's OS, then I doubt they would provide accessibility to it, as it would compromise the system's security. One of the PS2's strength, is it was much more difficult to MOD it than the xbox. And I have to give 'em credit for that.

I think its supposed to be a server in that you'll be using it when your away from your PS3. So not necisarily as you play the game and use the server at the same time but not using the PS3 and streaming the files. You don't have to multitask in that sense...and it seems like your giving an extreme angle instead of a common more practical one.

I don't think it's an extreme to have a server running 24/7. Actually, for servers, I expect it. From a common practical solution, shouldn't your conventional desktop computer be the server instead of the PS3?

I'm not to sure on that front. But they could possibly be setting it up to be as user friendly as possible. Also, that networking aspect could be more directed to the enthusiasts instead of the general gamer. Although....people with PSPs have made an effort to learn how to connect their PSP to their home network (I've followed forum threads on these issues) and it seems the general gaming public is willing to learn and adapt.

Yeah, that's what everyone is trying to reach. MS, Linux, Mac, etc...they all trying to make it easiest possible. Have they successfully done it? What make you thinnk Sony will wave a wand and make it happen? It's one thing for an average joe to setup their PSP/PC/Mac to access the *net*, it's a totally different ballgame to setup it up as a server. They have to know about dynamic and static ip. They have to figure about routing and security rules. It's not a something, your average joe going to do.

The PS3 "supposedly" comes the ability to automaticaly encode video files. About the applications, i'm not to sure about support (it will probably be non existent) but developers of the OS may make basic apps with the OS. Nothing BIG I can forsee though, like Adobe creating Premier for the PS3 CELL OS.

While I agree with you that it could have some basic video applications. However, my point is if you're working video, you rather do it on an application that's full featured instead of a stripped down version. However, I do see your point that a stripped down (which mean it'll be easier for average joe to use), could be the next KILLER APP on the PS3. However, I still have my doubts.

KK keeps refering to a CELL storage. CELL storage here. CELL storage there. I'm not sure if its PR speak or some type of tag that he tried to have catch on but it seems they are reaching for the "Center of the Living Room" approach with the PS3. Reaching that point is anothing issue. They could possibly link with PCs and allow to use remote storage. Its all theorys though....nothing concrete.

I think it's PR. As I don't know of any emerging Cell storage technology coming down. And if it's some awesomely huge storage technology, I'm sure we would have heard about it by now. As the desktop market would be thrill to embrace it...not just the console.

If the PS3 is going to be media hub (but not a server), I can see that. What I mean by media hub is that it could play back from different media sources such as BR, DVD, UMD through PSP, IPTV, content targetted news (ala RSS) and market place. However, as you can see MS already ahead of Sony. I'm not saying Sony can't do it. It just they need to be grounded instead of talking about some sky high pipe dream hype. And just do it.

Its your opinion if it does EXPLODE or fall flat on its face but this CELL is being equiped in a console that hat a fanbase that will buy it no matter WHAT form it came in. So this is a MEGA push for this processor and it will force Dev departments to learn how to utilize CELL. This should only be benificial to CELL.

About using it in mundane electronics..i'm not to sure about. The only reason I can see it being in a fridge is if the fridge is equiped with some type of advance feature set that allows you to do crazy things with the fridge. With a TV, i'm not to sure either....appearently it has some capabilities to possibly raise image quality? I'm not to sure exactly on that either. All in all we'll see what happens and whats to be said about CELL on or near the launch of the PS3.

NOTE: Thats like the longest post i've done here at B3D...whooo..time to go to sleep.

Hehehehe, I'm nott sure what sort of crazy thing you want to do on your fridge or microwave. hehehehe, I'm curious. If you talking about timed cooking or monitoring when you're out of milk, that sort of stuff doesn't require a Cell. Actually, I rather have a central server code that would have logic to enact upon certain event. So when you're out of milk, the fridge sends a simple message to some server. The server would have all the rules for it. Such as if it should place and order for it or email you or whatnot.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Cell is bad. I just believe that the Cell has specific applications. And gaming console is one of them. I just don't see the all the other stuff KK is talking about.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I'm very interested with how CELL is used. I don't know. The whole fridge this IS a bit of a stretch. I'm not to sure myself what practical applications a CELL would have in a fridge. As far as everything else, IMHO, its still to early. The only time it will be right to start talking about exacty uses for CELL IMO is to see it actually being used for something. Theres still doubts out there that CELL will fail as a processor for the PS3. Lots of uncertainty floating around.

I wish we all could warp to summer next year for only a moment and get a peak at what new imformation has been released. I just hate that its such a slow crawly buildup to any new information about CELL. In the end though...we can all talk about it all we want, its the Devs that have their hands on CELL workstations that will always have more knowledge about its utilazations than the general public.

The OS bit, I was a bit confused on...I wasn't sure which OS you where talking about. The actual OS (without the HDD pre loaded with Linux) I dont' know anything about. I believe NO one knows anything about it. Seems to be something that will be revealed a few months before launch.

Now about networking. Most people with Routers should have some sort of DHCP no matter what. If its a router that was released within the last two years you should be able to connect your PC up and have it just....work. Now if you want to get all technical with static IPs and ports and whatnot. Then yeah..it would have to be a more knowledgable person that would need to get their hands on that type of setup. But to me, all the PS3 would need to do is work with a DHCP network (which should be common in home networks with routers).

The Server issue I brought up about your point was that playing Killzone 2/3 and activley streaming Media to another device could happen but if its one person with the PS3, i'm not sure why they would be streaming something if there playing Killzone 2/3 off the PS3. Even then, no one can definitivley say that doing those two things at once is impossible. Not enough info to go on. Security? Just lock the thing down completley. When I mean lock it down I mean for Sony to lock the thing down. Unfortunatley....these are one of the last things thats on their mind and will probably be very unsecure . Although it IS using Linux. Not that Linux is perfect...its no Windows 2K/XP though.

The above paragraph brings up another point though. What server functions? I'm guessing you need the HDD with Linux to be able to set up your mini media server. So security itself should be handled by the OS on the HDD.

Looking at my comments and yours. Its simply all speculation. Nothing wrong with it...but we could totally be off base with everything were saying. I hate that. But i'm no fortune teller...just seems some likley scenarios that the PS3 can bring up.......but i'm sure it will all be cut down a few months before launch

 

[TrungGap]

Silly me...

I just realized that I've posted the most incoherent post of the day (if not for the week). Basically, there are two issue at hand here:

1) PS3 as a central server

2) Cell as technology to drive all CE devices

I'll refrain from posting those two issues in one post, as it would be confusing to dissect Sony's grand plan for world domination. <evil_laugh>haahuhaahuhaaa</evil_laugh>

PS Even though we should be discussing the impact of the lack of standardized HDD in gaming consoles.

 

[BlueTsunami]

PS Even though we should be discussing the impact of the lack of standardized HDD in gaming consoles.

LOL...I just realized that also. People are going to wake up and go



We both totally went way off topic but thats how I feel about CELL and what it may or may not do in the PS3.

 

[mckmas8808]

Well I'm awake now and I did go . So there you go.