Kyle lays it on the line

[nelg]

Walt, I am lying on the couch. Can I tell you about my childhood now.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Sigh. Well at least he admitted it's the same situation. But now because it's 2 years later and they've matured, it's a different scenario. :?

Kyle again manages to dodge giving any answer to the question that was actually asked - other than "because I say so".

I tell you, it's like listening to a politician dodge questions... lots of words, but no real meaning... It's pretty ironic Kyle talks about growth and maturity, as nothing has changed at [H]. The mindset is still the same.

 

[brent_anderson]

Since I've said a lot on these issues previously, I should say something here. I'm gratified that frgmstr has at least made an effort at explanation, and I certainly was glad to see his apologetic remarks to ET (hopefully, he's made a more personal apologetic overture to ET beyond what he's already publicly apologized for.) I think he should also apologize to all other web-site staff from other sites which he has unfairly characterized in his forums (specifically the ones banned from them without cause.) Such efforts would be a good beginning at reformation.

While his remarks describing his relationship with nVidia, and contrasting it with his relationship with ATi, underscore my own earlier opinions on the likely dynamics of the [H]-nVidia relationship, I would exhort frgmstr to kind of "look in the mirror" and ask himself this question: "What is it nVidia can learn from me that might make them want to listen to me?"

It obviously isn't subject matter pertaining to designing 3D chips or refining driver code, since frgmstr would have nothing to contribute in that venue. One valuable type of input frgmstr might provide the company is constructive criticism on its drivers and hardware. This is the kind of input companies usually value from a variety of sources, as it helps them better ascertain the preferences of their target markets. This is a format in which frgmstr could be of some value both to nVidia and the 3D-buying public at large. But the facts as they've appeared to me are that post nv30, Kyle has had very little, if any, constructive criticism to offer nVidia to assist the company in better understanding the needs of it markets, and so has provided pretty much no information to nVidia post nv30 that might actually be worth something to the company.

Rather, it appears only that frgmstr has been listening to nVidia post nv30, and not the other way around, even though he obviously believes otherwise. This is what I would wish frgmastr would seriously consider: that nVidia has been working at making him feel as though it "listens to him" and "values his opinion," merely as a device to ensure that frgmstr will listen to them when they wish to make public statements by proxy through his website they will not make directly themselves. Yes, I heartily concur with frgmstr that nVidia is making "use" of [H], there can be no doubt about that. Where I would disagree with him is in the type of use which has been occurring.

What I read in his characterizations of his different relationships with ATi and nVidia is that, respectively, one company is only interested in "telling" him things, while the other company has convinced him it "listens to him." What frgmstr needs to do is to be scrupulously and rigorously honest with himself and ask himself this question: "What is it I know that either of these billion-dollar-a-year + companies would not be able to discover on its own through the multiplicity of sources available to them?" Such a self examination would likely be productive and fruitful.

To that end, what is it that frgmstr has that both of these companies would be interested in? It's the publicity that might be generated through [H], of course. The difference is only in the approach by the two companies. ATi is not interested in using [H] as a vehicle to play PR games and make statements that it will not make directly, and so it "tells" him things in a straighforward and professional manner, in the belief that this is the proper approach, and that his professional competence will allow him to understand what it is they are "telling" him. nVidia, however, pretends it is listening to him while it is telling him what it prefers to see him print. As frgmastr has characterized it, the central difference in his relationship between the two companies is one of how they treat him personally. I can only suggest to him that cultivating a better relationship with ATi is is entirely up to him.

These are the things I hope frgmstr carries away from all of these discussions.

Eloquently said and I agree 100%. Kyle is only fooling himself if he thinks NVIDIA cares about his opinion in ANY technical context. He is being used by them for PR purposes only.

Brent

 

[Blackwind]

One valuable type of input frgmstr might provide the company is constructive criticism on its drivers and hardware. This is the kind of input companies usually value from a variety of sources, as it helps them better ascertain the preferences of their target markets. This is a format in which frgmstr could be of some value both to nVidia and the 3D-buying public at large. But the facts as they've appeared to me are that post nv30, Kyle has had very little, if any, constructive criticism to offer nVidia to assist the company in better understanding the needs of it markets, and so has provided pretty much no information to nVidia post nv30 that might actually be worth something to the company.

The facts of th matter are that he has done exactly that. Express his opinion and critisim, one shared by many to include those here, in an attempt to make Nvidia aware. While it may "appear" to be very little, it appears more then enough to others.

 

[swanlee]

No what he has done is help Nvidia commit consumer fraud. Plain and simple, he can dodge all the questions possible and give lawyer like non descript answers but the plain truth is he has helped Nvidia get away with cheating their customers and oem's out of money that would have spent elsewhere had Nvidia not artifically pumped up there numbers in every benhcmark known to man.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

The facts of th matter are that he has done exactly that. Express his opinion and critisim, one shared by many to include those here, in an attempt to make Nvidia aware. While it may "appear" to be very little, it appears more then enough to others.

But not publicly to the readership of his site for the last year, all the while telling us how Nvidia's cards are as good as ATI cards, when they are nothing of the sort.

In my opinion, Kyle and his staff misled those readers who took him at his word of being an impartial and objective journalist who could be trusted. Kyle kept quiet about serious issues in order to promote his "special friendship" with Nvidia, all to the detriment of his reponsibility and trust to his readership.

This is also a criticism shared by many, including those here.

 

[WaltC]

Walt, I am lying on the couch. Can I tell you about my childhood now.

I vant you to relaxxxxx....and look into ze light....yes, look into ze light.....you are now asleeeeeee-e-e-e-e-e-ep.....yessssss-s-s-s-s....go back in time, yes, backwards to vhen you were a leetle, bitty boy....I vant you to tell me again about ze hippopotamus in ze park...and how you climbed into ze pond weeth eet, and how you stroked its sleek, furry hide, zen talk to me about what ze two of you did....togezer....I vant to hear every vurd...Look into ze li-i-i-i-i-iight.... 8)

 

[nelg]

Walt, I am lying on the couch. Can I tell you about my childhood now.

I vant you to relaxxxxx....and look into ze light....yes, look into ze light.....you are now asleeeeeee-e-e-e-e-e-ep.....yessssss-s-s-s-s....go back in time, yes, backwards to vhen you were a leetle, bitty boy....I vant you to tell me again about ze hippopotamus in ze park...and how you climbed into ze pond weeth eet, and how you stroked its sleek, furry hide, zen talk to me about what ze two of you did....togezer....I vant to hear every vurd...Look into ze li-i-i-i-i-iight.... 8)

 

[StealthHawk]

Despising someone has nothing to do with coverage. Nor does Kyle have anything to do with “3D Graphics Companies and Industryâ€￾ IMO. Kyle, specifically. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing. There is nothing wrong with voicing ones opinion. There is a time and place for it. I mean its so bad, if you want to read about Kyle don’t read [H], read B3D! Sheesh. Setup a shrine already and throw tomatoes but keep it out of the dang forums.

You need to check this forum's rules. Unless they have changed very recently, "3D Graphics Companies and Industry" also covers discussion of relevant websites and commentary on their articles.

Then I'd highly suggest creating Kyle and [H] their very own forum. Many of us would like to read about other things then every two threads on this topic.

If you hate these threads as much as you say you do, then why are you still responding to them? Do you have some kind of compulsion to defend Kyle... :?

 

[micron]

Blackwind has 70 posts here. 99% of them are related to discussing Kyle.
I made a comment to Blackwind on the [H] forums that was a little snyde....Kyle edited it immediately.
Can you say 'pet'?

 

[digitalwanderer]

Blackwind has 70 posts here. 99% of them are related to discussing Kyle.
I made a comment to Blackwind on the [H] forums that was a little snyde....Kyle edited it immediately.
Can you say 'pet'?

Yes, but I'd probably get me wrists slapped if I did...

 

[Himself]

 

[Fred da Roza]

In my opinion, Kyle and his staff mislead those readers who took him at his word of being an impartial and objective journalist who could be trusted. Kyle kept quiet about serious issues in order to promote his "special friendship" with Nvidia, all to the detriment of his reponsibility and trust to his readership.

This is also a criticism shared by many, including those here.

Yes!

Clearly Kyle will not jeopardize his "special friendship" with nVidia under any circumstance. His unwillingness to publically criticize nVidia when he discovers unethical practices only hurts his credibility.

It’s funny to see an nV news moderator question Kyle’s ethics on [H] forums. It just illustrates how black and white this situation is. If nVidia want to gain back some of their credibility, they need to openly and frankly discuss these issues with their biggest critics.

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

Blackwind has 70 posts here. 99% of them are related to discussing Kyle.
I made a comment to Blackwind on the [H] forums that was a little snyde....Kyle edited it immediately.
Can you say 'pet'?

I try to be Dave's pet. Unfortunately he isn't online much.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Can you say 'pet'?

Now, now.

However, it did seem as though, from some of his UT2003 comments on the relationship between NVIDIA and Epic, that Kyle had been talking to him. Of course neither he nor Kyle knew that we solicited the responce from Epic after NVIDIA had told them that they had sought approaval for the UT2003 'optimisations'.

 

[Reverend]

Of course neither he nor Kyle knew that we solicited the responce from Epic after NVIDIA had told them that they had sought approaval for the UT2003 'optimisations'.

Whoops... are you supposed to say/reveal this, Dave? Or is this already public knowledge (i.e. maybe I missed this?) ?

 

[Evildeus]

And more importantly, what is Epic response?

 

[digitalwanderer]

Of course neither he nor Kyle knew that we solicited the responce from Epic after NVIDIA had told them that they had sought approaval for the UT2003 'optimisations'.

What response from Epic, I'm getting all confused again.

BTW-Kyle closed the thread again since it had "gotten all redundant". It's weird how that happens whenever people start to actualy corner him on issues and things...

EDITED BITS: I keep getting more confused reading your post Dave, who did nVidia seek approval of the UT2k3 'optimizations' from?

 

[swanlee]

He so reminds of of Leslie Neilson, move along people nothing to see here, nothing to see here. The only satisfactiobn is he cannot be so completely oblivious to not know how stupid he sounds avoiding every question are telling people to read his post again or instead of answering anything providing a link to an old post. He knows how he looks but seems to think if he acts this way all the time people will buy it.

 

[Fred da Roza]

What response from Epic, I'm getting all confused again.

EDITED BITS: I keep getting more confused reading your post Dave, who did nVidia seek approval of the UT2k3 'optimizations' from?

I believe he is referring to the last cryptic message he gave.

One final note.

On the subject of Epic's involvement with this take note of the following from Rev's post in which he first mentions this: "a few days ago I'd asked Tim Sweeney if Epic approves/agrees to what NVIDIA's drivers are doing in UT2003."

The bold is not immediately obvious, but pertinent.