Kyle lays it on the line

Lets start with the title of this thread. "Kyle lays it on the line." Rather then over analyse this as many here love to do, lets stick to the point. How does Kyle Lay it on the line?

Lets see, maybe here. Note, maybe.

Of this has been the very core of 80% or more of threads started here on:

Where does Kyle stand?
Why won't he tell us?
He has to be hiding something! It’s a conspiracy!

IMO, its pretty straight forward. It has been from the beginning. This has been called in to question so many times here it's ridiculous. Let’s say everyone actually can concede, guess what, we NOW know what Kyle thinks.

Despising someone has nothing to do with coverage. Nor does Kyle have anything to do with “3D Graphics Companies and Industryâ€￾ IMO. Kyle, specifically. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing. There is nothing wrong with voicing ones opinion. There is a time and place for it. I mean its so bad, if you want to read about Kyle don’t read [H], read B3D! Sheesh. Setup a shrine already and throw tomatoes but keep it out of the dang forums.

 

This obviously isn't just about Kyle the person but his site the influence and number of readers his site has and the fact he has become an extension of Nvidia's pr dept. Come on it's real simple Nvidia commited consumer fraud hardocp has helped cover that up and Kyle himself has done so as well. That is the really basic jist of this whole situation.

 

Kyle's influence is not going to go down just by making more threads about him here.

 

Riiiight. The very same thing could be said about many of ATI's products previous to Radeon but that didn't stop me from buying ATI. Talk about extreme thinking.

 

You need to check this forum's rules. Unless they have changed very recently, "3D Graphics Companies and Industry" also covers discussion of relevant websites and commentary on their articles.

 

Then I'd highly suggest creating Kyle and [H] their very own forum. Many of us would like to read about other things then every two threads on this topic.

 

Gees what a lame comeback, here and now Nvidia is commting consumer fraud and Kyle is helping covering it up, what does this have to do with ATI? If anything this points out Kyle's hypocrisy what did he do when ATi was found out cheating with Quack? He screamed bloody murder at the top of his lungs all over his site, what has he done since Nvidia has been discovered to be cheating in every major benchmark and game that is widely used in benchmarks? Nadda and has help nvidia deliver pr statements on their behalf.


"Riiiight. The very same thing could be said about many of ATI's products previous to Radeon but that didn't stop me from buying ATI. Talk about extreme thinking."

 

Who is this Kyle everyone seems to be fuzzing about?
Just another case of the "guy with a website" phenomenon, move along now.

 

You don't have to participate in threads that do not interest you. There are plenty of other threads which you could enrich with your insights. Please don't try and stifle discussions because you can't resist clicking on the thread subject.

 

While it is your opinion that it has "everything to do with 3D graphic companies," it is not mine thank you. As for "ass packing and where I belong" I'm pretty damn sure that soley up to me, not you.

 

I agree the choice is up to you, but could you please quit whining about it in the threads you don't disaprove of as the view count seems to indicate that not everyone shares your opinion?

It's not like this was a stealth Kyle thread or anything, it's pretty clearly labelled. If you're not interested, don't read it.

 

Hello earth to blackwind, you obviously have some interest in this subject cause you keep posting in them here and on the hardforum, like your master Kyle says if you don't like these threads why do you keep coming back to them?

 

Fortunatley, you don't set the rules for this forum, and discussion of 3D industry websites and their antics are cleary within the official remit of this forum. It is you that is off-topic for hi-jacking this thread into a "net-cop" tangent.

 

Three guesses, and the first two don't count.

 

He just wants to increase is post counts.
And on topic. I agree that it's just lame of Kyle to put it in the forum and hope everyone likes him now
I just dislike him even more now.
Why not make it front page?
Cause then the green will stop coming

 

I think part of the reason people want to flame kyle here is they dont get a chance to do that over at [H]. If kyle allowed more candid feedback and yes a few BS post now and then, people could blow off their steam there and not have to bring it here. But when you lock every rebuttle or starting banning users its make these people go else where...

Personally his banning of Dave was probably the most childish thing he has done. Dave has been working closely with Brent on these past issue and has done a lot to help [H] and Brent write better reviews. Its a pitty really....

 

Thanks to whoever re-opened this thread! I was having a great time yesterday bouncing back & forth 'tween this and Kyle's thread, it provides a nice counter-point/scorecard to his thread at [H].

I'm not here to bash, I'm here to learn....and this thread provides the needed balance & perspective.

My thanks, and my nod that this is indeed relevant to 3D graphic companies and industry no matter how tired of Kyle some must be by now.

 

Since I've said a lot on these issues previously, I should say something here. I'm gratified that frgmstr has at least made an effort at explanation, and I certainly was glad to see his apologetic remarks to ET (hopefully, he's made a more personal apologetic overture to ET beyond what he's already publicly apologized for.) I think he should also apologize to all other web-site staff from other sites which he has unfairly characterized in his forums (specifically the ones banned from them without cause.) Such efforts would be a good beginning at reformation.

While his remarks describing his relationship with nVidia, and contrasting it with his relationship with ATi, underscore my own earlier opinions on the likely dynamics of the [H]-nVidia relationship, I would exhort frgmstr to kind of "look in the mirror" and ask himself this question: "What is it nVidia can learn from me that might make them want to listen to me?"

It obviously isn't subject matter pertaining to designing 3D chips or refining driver code, since frgmstr would have nothing to contribute in that venue. One valuable type of input frgmstr might provide the company is constructive criticism on its drivers and hardware. This is the kind of input companies usually value from a variety of sources, as it helps them better ascertain the preferences of their target markets. This is a format in which frgmstr could be of some value both to nVidia and the 3D-buying public at large. But the facts as they've appeared to me are that post nv30, Kyle has had very little, if any, constructive criticism to offer nVidia to assist the company in better understanding the needs of it markets, and so has provided pretty much no information to nVidia post nv30 that might actually be worth something to the company.

Rather, it appears only that frgmstr has been listening to nVidia post nv30, and not the other way around, even though he obviously believes otherwise. This is what I would wish frgmastr would seriously consider: that nVidia has been working at making him feel as though it "listens to him" and "values his opinion," merely as a device to ensure that frgmstr will listen to them when they wish to make public statements by proxy through his website they will not make directly themselves. Yes, I heartily concur with frgmstr that nVidia is making "use" of [H], there can be no doubt about that. Where I would disagree with him is in the type of use which has been occurring.

What I read in his characterizations of his different relationships with ATi and nVidia is that, respectively, one company is only interested in "telling" him things, while the other company has convinced him it "listens to him." What frgmstr needs to do is to be scrupulously and rigorously honest with himself and ask himself this question: "What is it I know that either of these billion-dollar-a-year + companies would not be able to discover on its own through the multiplicity of sources available to them?" Such a self examination would likely be productive and fruitful.

To that end, what is it that frgmstr has that both of these companies would be interested in? It's the publicity that might be generated through [H], of course. The difference is only in the approach by the two companies. ATi is not interested in using [H] as a vehicle to play PR games and make statements that it will not make directly, and so it "tells" him things in a straighforward and professional manner, in the belief that this is the proper approach, and that his professional competence will allow him to understand what it is they are "telling" him. nVidia, however, pretends it is listening to him while it is telling him what it prefers to see him print. As frgmastr has characterized it, the central difference in his relationship between the two companies is one of how they treat him personally. I can only suggest to him that cultivating a better relationship with ATi is is entirely up to him.

These are the things I hope frgmstr carries away from all of these discussions.

 

Well, this is where I stop reading [H]OCP.

In response to a question asking why this 3DMark specific optimization is in any way "better" than the Quak issue and thus deserves less scrutiny from [H]OCP.

Sigh. Well at least he admitted it's the same situation. But now because it's 2 years later and they've matured, it's a different scenario. :?