Kinect price confirmed 150USD plus arcade model priced

[eastmen]

That chart is pretty comical; Sony's marketing department produced similar analysis to compare the initial investment on a PS3 to the 360 with their point being that while the PS3 had a higher upfront cost once you added in all the needed options to your 360 (wireless, play and charge kit, Live subscription, hard drive and Blu Ray player) that the PS3 was cheaper. At the time many argued that Microsoft's modular approach gave gamers choice and didn't force features on gamers while those who saw the value in Sony's approach agreed with the chart.

This round Sony gives gamers the lower initial cost along with more flexibility and Microsoft's interpretation of motion control will require additional upfront cost but not require additional investment later. It will be interesting to watch those who argued so passionately about the pros/cons of each approach previously comment on the relative value of each companies value/choice propositions for motion control integration.

I'm not sure where you get that from.

The 360 is $200-$300 . With natal its $300-$450 . The ps3 is $300-$400 with move for a single player its $400-$500. But thats not even true as some games may require two move wants for play. So intial cost for these systems with motion control has the ps3 higher than the 360.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You mention it before this, but you don't reason why you think the current Wii crowd that does in fact already have a Wii wouldn't be interested.

Well there isn't much reasoning, I'll admit. Just a hazy question, why did Wii owners buy Wii? If for motion control, have they had their appetites satisfied and Kinect looks like more of the same given launch titles, or does it look like something new to what they have. Similar thinking to why people only buy a PS3 or XB360 and not both, because they do the same basic job and are seen by many as too similar to warrant having both.

Also I'm thinking Kinectimals will be the casual killer app for Kinect at launch, and maybe should have been the pack in.

I've felt things like EOJ (although that fell short of its potential between techdemos and the released game) and EyePet and PSP's Invisimals could have killer appeal, but they never have had, so I wouldn't look to Kinectimals to be the principal box mover myself. Something the whole family can share in, like Adventures which is a unique experience to Kinect, seems right to me.

As for all this talk of MS gouging, pricing too high etc, I have to think the Kinect price is mostly based on it's cost. The unit is simply costly, and probably cost $150 to manufacture.

That seems very unlikely. The components are dirt cheap CCDs and microphones, with one unknown being the near-IR laser diode. Unless they're doing something really funky (and we know they're beaming a random pattern through a diffuser, so anything funky would be unexpected special source), this is something like a $20 component tops by my hazy reckoning. Certainly there's nothing known in the hardware to give it a $150 BOM. IMO they've just done their market research and found this is the best revenue generating price for expected demand given what they can produce. I said of XB360's launch they undercharged $100 when you look at how well it was selling, losing a truckload of cash. It's better to overprice initially and reduce price, then miss out of revenues because you undercharged what the market was willing to pay.

 

[corduroygt]

Wii on the other hand is 100 USD cheaper, as long as you don't mind playing by yourself.

You can still play online or watch netflix without any extra cost, and you get 2 games with the wii.

 

[corduroygt]

Here's the maximum cost for each:
PS3 + Move bundle+ 3 more move controllers (So far only ONE game out of 50+ seems to require them) + 2 nunchucks (not necessary but included anyway) = 300+100+150+60 = $610...

360 Kinect bundle + Hard Drive + 5 years of XBL at discounted price of $40 = 300 + 130 + 200 = 630...

Wii + controller/nunchuck = 200+60 = 260...

Obvious why wii is the king of sales.

Surely the maximum cost of Wii includes extra controllers, Wii balance board, etc. Otherwise you're not comparing like maximum prices. Not that comparing maximum prices offers much insight to anything anyway!

 

[Rangers]

That chart is pretty comical; Sony's marketing department produced similar analysis to compare the initial investment on a PS3 to the 360 with their point being that while the PS3 had a higher upfront cost once you added in all the needed options to your 360 (wireless, play and charge kit, Live subscription, hard drive and Blu Ray player) that the PS3 was cheaper. At the time many argued that Microsoft's modular approach gave gamers choice and didn't force features on gamers while those who saw the value in Sony's approach agreed with the chart.

This round Sony gives gamers the lower initial cost along with more flexibility and Microsoft's interpretation of motion control will require additional upfront cost but not require additional investment later. It will be interesting to watch those who argued so passionately about the pros/cons of each approach previously comment on the relative value of each companies value/choice propositions for motion control integration.

The price of one fully fleshed Move is $130 though. Not much different from Kinect for one player. Once you scale to more than one player, the comparison favors kinect.

 

[Rangers]

That seems very unlikely. The components are dirt cheap CCDs and microphones, with one unknown being the near-IR laser diode. Unless they're doing something really funky (and we know they're beaming a random pattern through a diffuser, so anything funky would be unexpected special source), this is something like a $20 component tops by my hazy reckoning. Certainly there's nothing known in the hardware to give it a $150 BOM. IMO they've just done their market research and found this is the best revenue generating price for expected demand given what they can produce. I said of XB360's launch they undercharged $100 when you look at how well it was selling, losing a truckload of cash. It's better to overprice initially and reduce price, then miss out of revenues because you undercharged what the market was willing to pay.

Well there was this widely circulated report/rumor:http://www.develop-online.net/news/35198/Source-pins-Kinect-manufacturing-costs-to-150

Plus of course it's not just material costs, but all the software R&D. Plus the motor. What webcam with a motor is available for $20? The cheapest webcam is $20.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The price of one fully fleshed Move is $130 though. Not much different from Kinect for one player. Once you scale to more than one player, the comparison favors kinect.

Until you get to 3 or more players, where the comparison drops dead... Also for maximum prices, one can throw in the stupidly overpriced Move charging dock. Add three of those to your system for maximal overpricing!

Anyway, are typical shoppers evaluating price-per-player functions of these systems, or just buying on gut responses? I expect the latter, in which case Move has a psychological edge (certainly in Europe with €90 for Move bundle+Navicon versus €150 Kinect, especially the UK at £75 vs. £130) even if in the long run people can spend more on PS3 peripherals.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well there was this widely circulated report/rumor:http://www.develop-online.net/news/35198/Source-pins-Kinect-manufacturing-costs-to-150

Plus of course it's not just material costs, but all the software R&D. Plus the motor.

Yes, but that's not 'cost'. Charging as much as possible to recover investments isn't the same thing as charging $150 because that's what it costs to make. Prior discussion on the $150 rumour had most people agreeing that that's to cover expenses in Kinect's creation, and not the cost to build a unit. Adding a motor to a webcam certainly isn't going to be expensive!

 

[Arwin]

The price of one fully fleshed Move is $130 though. Not much different from Kinect for one player. Once you scale to more than one player, the comparison favors kinect.

'Fully fleshed' is irrelevant. Move Controller + Camera is the basic system. I would sooner argue that to match Kinect, you need two Move controllers, to get a more equivalent experience in the titles that are available on both systems. This would also give an entry into the multi-player area.

The fact remains that a single Move controller + PS Eye is enough for a lot of stuff (anything with tennis, bowling, golf, etc.), so the cost of entry is simply lower. There's no denying that for some experiences, particularly two player, Kinect is more cost-effective. But then there are currently an enormous range of experiences that are either not possible with Kinect, or are superior on Move with just one controller, so I would say that more than evens out, although of course it depends on your personal preference as well.

 

[Rangers]

Until you get to 3 or more players, where the comparison drops dead... Also for maximum prices, one can throw in the stupidly overpriced Move charging dock. Add three of those to your system for maximal overpricing!

Anyway, are typical shoppers evaluating price-per-player functions of these systems, or just buying on gut responses? I expect the latter, in which case Move has a psychological edge (certainly in Europe with €90 for Move bundle+Navicon versus €150 Kinect, especially the UK at £75 vs. £130) even if in the long run people can spend more on PS3 peripherals.

The charger isn't necessary though. I'm going by Move Kit =$99, nav controller=$30.

Some might argue even the nav controller isn't "necessary". I dont follow move enough to now, but I think for games that use analog it would be fairly necessary for a good experience.

 

[obonicus]

Nintendo is definitely going to be the closest competitor to Kinect, however, I really don't think the Wii owners are the direct target of Kinect. The games certainly bear some resemblence to Wii games, after all both the intended target for Kinect and the majority of Wii buyers are casual gamers looking for an alternative.

Wii owners aren't the target audience because they already own a Wii. The target are the people who don't own a Wii but are in for a similar experience. That's where MS (and Sony, of course) has an uphill battle. The price will be the main barrier, but another significant (and possible insurmountable) one is software. For all that we don't care for Nintendo software (I don't, in general), a whole ton of people do.

Ah, but that means they're the same. Well it certainly seems that way. And perhaps the no-controller versus controller is too fine a distinction for some, but apparently MS is absolutely convinced that there's a large group of people out there that haven't even bought a Wii due to the controls, even as casual as it is.

I've been vocal about saying that I doubt these people exist in significant numbers. It's more likely that we're talking about Nintendo's 'NEVER' crowd, people who don't game and have no interest in gaming.

 

[Arwin]

The charger isn't necessary though. I'm going by Move Kit =$99, nav controller=$30.

Some might argue even the nav controller isn't "necessary". I dont follow move enough to now, but I think for games that use analog it would be fairly necessary for a good experience.

The main reason people argue this is apart from that all but one Move launch game works with just a single Move, the dualshock can also function as a navigation controller. Apparently this works just fine when sitting down (and I'm betting right now that most games that you use a navigation controller will be games you'll want to play stting down).

 

[Graham]

I've felt things like EOJ (although that fell short of its potential between techdemos and the released game) and EyePet and PSP's Invisimals could have killer appeal, but they never have had, so I wouldn't look to Kinectimals to be the principal box mover myself. Something the whole family can share in, like Adventures which is a unique experience to Kinect, seems right to me.

(In my opinion)

To be successful, these types of games have to use the technology as a tool to achieve the end result (Hey, this tech makes our game much more immersive!) - far too often I feel these types of games are using the game as a justification for the technology (Hey! new tech! lets try and make a game for it!). I'm not sure yet if Kinectimals falls into this group as well (Frontier have made similar games in the past). Although I'm quite confident Milo&Kate doesn't given it's R&D history before Natal.

This is where the really interesting potential lies in kinect.

 

[Alkohallick]

What I wonder though is what effect these bundle prices will have on MS/SONY next console. IMO 300-400 is basically the launch prices of new consoles and although "core" gamers have had their system of choice for 4-5 years already and will most likely get the next iteration, what worries me is the demographic that MS(SONY too in a way) is targeting wont be so willing to dole out another 300+ on the next console in such a short time (if we're to assume 2012-2013 time frame) leaving the door wide open once again for a Wii2/HD

 

[Squilliam]

Whilst the price comparisons are lovely, I don't really think there are many people who are going to cross shop a PS3 with Move and an Xbox 360 with Kinect. Probably the most important factor would be they've used it and they like it. So in this case success breeds success. Online gaming may be the in thing, but its the offline interactions which really sell the systems.

 

[dobwal]

For that price you might as well buy the Wii. You'll get access to a way bigger motion control library. And this holiday season you probably can find a deal to get the Wii at Kinect prices.

 

[TrungGap]

Even though I would to get Kinect (probably a month or two after launch). It doesn't have that mass appeal of the Wii when it first launch. That's the problem with a playing following the leader...Unless you going to really out do the leader, it's just isn't going to generate enough buzz. I guess they could have artificially created excitement by setting the price so low, that people will buy them in mass, therefore creating a buzz to overshadow the fact that they're following the leader...

I don't think people will make too much distinction between Kinect and Wii motion controller...because to an average consumer, it's all the same.

 

[Svensk Viking]

A pretty bit too high for my taste

 

[Bigduo209]

The 2-player limit and Amazon's specs statement of a requirement of 6 feet or more between the person and the camera only lessens it's appeal for me.

 

[temesgen]

It's a bit difficult to make a modular camera system, no? It isn't as if Microsoft could have chosen to sell parts of the Kinect camera system seperately because the majority of people would never use it.

I never said Kinect was modular, I said Move was... The point was that Move is broken down into specific parts that gamers have control over purchasing: nav controller, wands, charge kits which is analogous to hard drives, wireless and chargers for the 360. Gamers can experience Move with a smaller initial investment than Kinect but if they want to do more they have to invest significantly more money which again is analogous to buying the original 360 arcade unit (at that time when the point was being debated so passionately on both sides after Sony produced their chart) and adding a hard drive and the HD DVD player.

Again at that time many said Sony was actually cheaper because for 600.00 they got a Blu Ray player, next gen console, wireless, hard drive all in one box that didn't require additional investment which is analogous to Kinect hence the original chart produced by Sony reference to this chart.

Let the people with money to burn pay for the extra's. Why punish people that don't need those features?

Move is modular so I am sure there are many people who will never bother to buy the nav controller.

Additionally Sony did that to attempt to justify its extravagent price

,

At the time, Blu Ray or HD DVD players were hundreds of dollars so many felt the additional cost of the PS3 was made up in value.

yet in this case with Kinect the X360 bundle is still 100 USD cheaper than the PS3 bundle.

The majority of people who already own either a 360 or a PS3, most of us are either going to invest 100 on Move or 150 on Kinect not to mention a Live subscription if the Kinect user wishes to game online.


So the analogy doesn't really fit in any way, at least when applied to the X360 and PS3.

Wii on the other hand is 100 USD cheaper, as long as you don't mind playing by yourself.

Regards,
SB

Its all relative which was my point, depending on which outcome you want you can make arguments to support your desired conclusion.