KILLZONE Shadow Fall [PS4]

Edit: In a few years time the games will look really good on both machines, not that they don't already look good. (on the flip side, I can't wait to see PC games in a few years)
That's the thing. Everything running on consoles is gonna look like dirt next to high end PCs now, and everything PC going forwards. Consoles are to be bought for the experience and exclusives rather than the visuals. Console gamers who don't look around will be pleased. Anyone with an eye on PC graphics will be disappointed.

Human comparison is relative. Last gen we were saying graphics looked awesome, but those same graphics now we'd consider weak, and those same graphics in 1995 would have blown our minds, and those same graphics in 2020 will be laughable. Comparison of the next-gen games, especially launch titles, need a sensible frame of reference. People expecting zero aliasing across all games etc. at launch just aren't being realistic (in some years we should have some amazing AA algorithms that, hopefully, can eliminate aliasing, although whether the current consoles have enough juice to run them alongside everything else is yet to be answered. AA and framerates are the first to go as devs push pixel quality).
 
There seem to be a lot of people with expectations for this gen that just aren't based in reality. We're seeing games that are quite clearly a large improvement over PS360, but they're saying they're still not "next gen" (a fairly nebulous term). If it isn't "next gen", then what is it? It certainly isn't current gen. The expectation of competing with high-end PCs just isn't an affordable reality, and really the people that demand that kind of quality can go and buy PCs. The PS4 costs $400, which is great, but that pricetag puts a limit on what's inside. I think Killzone looks great. I don't totally love all of the art, but I can't see any reason to complain about the overall result, or the tech itself. I mean, that's a really nice looking game on a piece of hardware that's relatively affordable.
 
That's the thing. Everything running on consoles is gonna look like dirt next to high end PCs now, and everything PC going forwards. Consoles are to be bought for the experience and exclusives rather than the visuals. Console gamers who don't look around will be pleased. Anyone with an eye on PC graphics will be disappointed.

Human comparison is relative. Last gen we were saying graphics looked awesome, but those same graphics now we'd consider weak, and those same graphics in 1995 would have blown our minds, and those same graphics in 2020 will be laughable. Comparison of the next-gen games, especially launch titles, need a sensible frame of reference. People expecting zero aliasing across all games etc. at launch just aren't being realistic (in some years we should have some amazing AA algorithms that, hopefully, can eliminate aliasing, although whether the current consoles have enough juice to run them alongside everything else is yet to be answered. AA and framerates are the first to go as devs push pixel quality).

Yes, but so let's agree to keep last gen the frame of reference, as has mostly been done. ;)

Also, I still think we should be able to expect some good results from consoles even versus PC - just as long as we're careful not to compare too much to quad-SLI setups, $500+ GPUs and such nonsense. ;)
 
Some good stuff here:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-shadow-fall-is-almost-40gb-it-used-to-be-290

This one for me in particular - we wondered about this when we saw a demo of the UI and then going into the game:

"To me, that's still something that fills my heart with joy when I see it. You insert the disc and go straight to menu," he says. "People here worked very hard... We had to ask legal and Dolby, the epilepsy warning stuff, the logos from Havok - we had to negotiate with them that we could put it in the credits and not the title screen... All the rules are built around the previous generation. I'm really happy that we're one of the first ones in, and I hope it's an example that people are going to follow.

So they did in fact manage to get rid of the logos, and I'm surprised they managed. And I SURE do hope that others will follow and make this default!
 
I think the big step forwards will be lighting. That's always been true of CG. Get the lighting right and the results will look real, even if unnatural. The standard will probably become games with dynamic secondary lights, but it's too early to expect that as standard in launch games. Launch games are inherently last-gen techniques up-ressed because devs haven't had the new hardware to develop new algorithms on. That's somewhat different this gen with cross-platform engines like CryEngine targeting high-end PCs for some years, and so developing modern techniques unsuitable for last-gen consoles but good for the new ones.
 
So they did in fact manage to get rid of the logos, and I'm surprised they managed.
Whuh! Now THAT is a surprise! :D Those logos are completely useless anyway, as the only ones that will care at all - and not very much at that to begin with - are other games developers, and not the gamers themselves who actually play the games...

And I SURE do hope that others will follow and make this default!
I think most won't actually bother. Sony would have to mandate it for it to have an effect, probably... It's such a common trope these days with those stupid screens and animations. Other devs will very likely just follow the path of least resistance on plain instinct/reflex.
 
I think the big step forwards will be lighting. That's always been true of CG. Get the lighting right and the results will look real, even if unnatural. The standard will probably become games with dynamic secondary lights, but it's too early to expect that as standard in launch games. Launch games are inherently last-gen techniques up-ressed because devs haven't had the new hardware to develop new algorithms on. That's somewhat different this gen with cross-platform engines like CryEngine targeting high-end PCs for some years, and so developing modern techniques unsuitable for last-gen consoles but good for the new ones.

What about animation ?

I look forward to a second gen first party game. A focused software and contents optimization should do wonders by that time.
 
lol, Eurogamer totally ruined it. Its re-encoded at 25fps according to Youtube wtf? So jittery

At least keep it even 30fps

Yeah, its a real problem for watching nextgen games content. There was many SP videos today from recenmt PR event, and all the videos have horrible IQ problems.
 
I think that you are one of many that bellieve that KZ is awesome and that looks like CGI.
Good for you!

After this is still much of a topic 10 pages later, and having just watched your previously linked Youtube video of Battlefield 4 "Fishing in Baku", I feel I have to address a few things that haven't been so far:

The Battlefield 4 gameplay video looks very impressive. But what I think is most impressive about it, is that it captures the realistic art-direction very well. It's like CoD in that regard - realistic lighting, realistic art, realistic battlefield (well to a degree). What I also think it does rather well, is use tricks and especially smokes & mirrors to simulate an authentic battlefield.

KillZone, and I am assuming here you've never actually played a game of the series, is rather different. It's not attempting to offer that kind of "battle simulation" but is more a science-fiction shooter, based in a fictional world that offers quite different gameplay. In KZ, it's a bit like being placed into a sandbox with multiple enemies and they will find ways to tackle you, flank you, kill you. For this reason, the gameplay is quite a bit different and reminds a lot more of recent Uncharted games, rather than the gameplay you will find in CoD.

In CoD, it's quite different - you have places where there are endless enemy spawns and the game forces you through a tight but invisible corridor, while placing enemies in a realistic fashion. You rarely see them hunt you down and if they do, it's usually in a more limited, less interactive fashion. The Battlefield video has some of this as well - sure you have a wide open arena, but your team of friendlies pretty much tell you where to go, what to do to make the game progress. While you're still in an open arena (in that video at least), I'm pretty sure the A.I. is a lot more static in what it does, in order to uphold the authenticy of the plot and the battlefield. In games like these, a lot of the stuff you see is cleverly scripted - the enemies, how they react or tackle you, the helicopters or other "blockbuster" stuff you see.

Now, this is really just design choice. Many criticize the endless spawns in many CoD games or call the story mode a rather "dumb/shallow" experience due to a large majority of things being scripted. I don't. I enjoyed it for what it is, and as long as you stick to the path the game dictates for you (by having friendlies tell you what to do or be pretty much killed once you leave the designated path) the smokes and mirrors experience works flawlessly and IMO is quite enjoyable. It's certainly delievers a lot bigger Wow! experience when I demonstrate a level to non-gamers, rather than doing the same with a scene out of a KZ game.

As I said, KZ as a game is much different. Different tradeoffs, different art-direction - it all adds up. When you design a game to be as interactive as Uncharted or in this case KZ is, there is a drawback in that you are less likely to mask things that need to be compromised. A.I needs to be more interactive, so the environment has to accomondate for that to a degree. If the player is not confined to a strict path but can chose different paths or pretty much walk an entire 'sandbox' the size of a large football field, there are always tradeoffs.

Obviously, it's hard to compare Battlefield 4 and KZSF further, because both games aren't out yet. Comparing CoD and KZ2/3 on PS3 though - I did always think that to most less technically minded people, CoD always striked them as the more impressive looking game (despite all the flat textures, pre-scripted areas, but they didn't really notice that) - because it displays something that people can relate to. There's no doubt though that what KZ has done in the past from a gameplay perspective, is a lot more impressive. And because it's technically more complex, it requires a certain tradeoff.

A lot of what you're arguing about is simply art-direction. KZ isn't going for realism, which IMO is making it less appealing compared with games that go for realism and smokes & mirrors gameplay.

I will be getting both games for sure - and I think they will be both very enjoyable, even if for different reasons. Strictly speaking though and keeping the points above in mind, they are too different to really compare in a constructive manner.


BTW: Wow, that story trailer seriously has me hyped up!
 
I definitely agree that not all environments are equally beautiful. Especially the outdoor environments feel like they lack some of the skill / art design that went into a game like Uncharted. Of course, that's a tight corridor, but with the increase in texture quality, I get the feeling that the art was a limiting factor in the Killzone outdoor areas (which are, admittedly, very large).

Compare this Uncharted shot:

I love the city and indoor environments in Killzone 4 though, and definitely look forward to playing them!

I think GG is just not very experienced with vegetation. :)
That said above KZ SF jungle gif looks great.
(Also Uncharted had some terrible vegetation as well.)
 
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