KILLZONE Shadow Fall [PS4]

I beg to differ. Their Steam page for Watch Dogs still has screens from the original engine used in e3 (confirmed by Ubi reps). The game just doesn't look like that.

I believe that the engine is the same and also the "infamous" E3 demo was the one set at night and none of those screen match.
Anyway highly embellished screenshots could indeed be considered false advertising, unless they come with a disclaimer.

EDIT
I believe though that screenshots must be modified to constitute false advertising.
As long as the screenshots are taken in-game it's not false advertising.
 
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The labelling on the packaging doesn't serve this purpose. All that's there (on the EU packaging at least) is an icon saying "1080p HD video output." It doesn't inform users that lower resolutions are available, nor what minimum TV spec they will need.

Dropping the resolution references would leave people no worse off than they are now regards display compatibility. But surely every TV connected via HDMI is at least 720p capable and so no mention need be made per title. Leave it to the system manual to talk about supported TVs and resolutions.

I think the actual solution is for the US justice system to stop entertaining such blatantly opportunistic litigious behaviour on the part of certain persons. If this suit is not based in the US, colour me very surprised.

A game saying it supports 1080p HDMI output on the back is saying just that. It supports 1080p HDMI output. It doesn't say anything about the rendering resolution. Both Gran Turismo 5 and 6 do not have gameplay in full HD native rendering, but it's all still outputted at 1920x1080 if that's the setting chosen on PS3.

To go lesser on the back of the box... we could. Not to say that this label on the back is so valuable, but the information doesn't really hurt or mislead in this case either (at least IMO).
 
The game box says it outputs in 1080p because it *does* output in 1080p. What we've got here is a crybaby who spends too much time on forums and thinks he's going to prove a point, and a sharky lawyer who is being paid up front and therefore doesn't really care too much if he wins.

The odds of the courts decreeing that all games must heretofore list the resolution at which the triangles are rasterized, not the resolution of the buffer transmitted to your TV set, are about infinity to one, especially given that nearly every game last gen that said "1080p" on the box was upscaling a sub-1080p image.
 
While the lawsuit cites the output resolution on the box, it also expands on the propagation of the impression that MP was "native 1080p" through its marketing and disclosures to game sites.

There is at least more to that argument than there is in pointing at the box.
There is a technical distinction to be made between what was generally assumed and what was actually provided, and the marketing department either glossed over or did not know/understand the exact particulars of the MP mode's rendering method.
It's hard to pin general assumptions that nobody cared to actually define on Sony. At the very least, it may be able to get the "fool me once" first offender free pass, and the market will have to adjust by actually knowing a little more about what it's talking about.

The filing cites gaming press pieces describing the inferior results of upscaled output. The "native" label in everyday gamer vernacular was centered around not having a reduced resolution game output upscaled. The suit goes further to state that this is an interpolated output, and that KZ's method that also has a component of interpolation must be the same thing. That's potentially overbroad, in a quadrilateral is a square is a rhombus is a rectangle is a trapezoid sort of way.
The fineness of the distinction is something that I would feel works against the suit, and the suit does go on to harp on the "unqualified 1080p" on the packaging as an additional attempt to mislead.
I feel it's actually trying to go in two directions at once, trying to dive further into technical subtleties about the half-resolution source frames that feed into the 1080p frame buffer while simultaneously pointing to an "unqualified" catch-all marketing term that was of already dubious precision through the collective actions of an industry and its customers.

The impact, as described by the suit, is that the resulting blurry output is something that cannot happen with 1080p.
While it is true that there would likely be more clarity to the game if its three source frames were not half-resolution, it is sadly not the case that clarity is a given at 1080p.
The renderer does put out a 1080p buffer. Whether a particular title uses that wealth of pixels as well as another possible implementation hasn't been encoded into any statute.
The method Guerrilla used would look noticeably different if the renderer were set to output at 720p, with all its other ratios kept the same.

While it would interesting to make excessive blur a civil offense, there isn't a legal standard that states "you must be this clear to be 1080p". The lawsuit is effectively arguing that the client didn't like how KZ built the 2,073,600 pixels in its frame, not that they weren't built.

I think it is fair that Guerilla was taken to task for not clearly describing the method used from a technical standpoint, but I do not know what metric can be used to translate that internal distinction to something sufficiently contrary to what was said in the infinitely blurrier language used in the general market.
 
I hope he gets laughed out of court...
The lawyers all get paid for the case, so there's no fiscal reason to drop the case on grounds of it being ridiculously misplaced. This is the stereotypical US legal system, and why US packaging and instructions comes with loads of crazy disclaimers and warnings that the rest of the world takes as common sense.

US Galaxy NotePro manual (an Android tablet)

A chapter, 20 pages, on Health and Safety information

UK Galaxy NotePro manual
No such chapter. No warnings at all about safe driving or safe listening volumes. No warning that I should avoid dropping my Tablet as it may get damaged if it lands on a hard surface! :runaway:

So it's quite possible that the US packaging will get smothered in smaller and smaller print. "This game outputs an image suitable for receiving on an HDTV at either 720p or 1080p. The construction of this image, complete or in part, is not necessarily produced at this output resolution. By opening this box, you accept the quality of the produced image. If you do not accept that the rendering resolution may differ from the output resolution, you should return this box unopened to your retailer for a refund."
 
Just checked some XB1 box art. Looks like XB1 games don't have resolution icons or mentions at all. I really think that's the way forwards for Sony. We know PS4 outputs 1080p and 720p as standard so there's no need to mention it. Your TV will just work.

Even if this court case goes nowhere, they should remove the icon as extraneous information. It serves a similar role to an icon stating, "Uses electricity," or the one actually included on the box art that specifies, "Dualshock 4". Wow, supports the standard controller that came with the console. Who'd have thought it?! :p
 
I would go in the opposite direction.
Customers have the right to know so it would be better to give them more precise and truthful information about the game.
 
I would go in the opposite direction.
Customers have the right to know so it would be better to give them more precise and truthful information about the game.

Over complicates the information to general consumers and gievn the different methods and tricks used by developers for many generations of consoles, is very hard to accurate represent. Do you want half a game box to be description of all elements of the rendering paths?
 
I would go in the opposite direction.
Customers have the right to know so it would be better to give them more precise and truthful information about the game.
What information would be required and how would you present it? Here's the current EU box:
http://www.gamepur.com/files/imagepicker/48/killzone-shadow-fall-box-art.jpg

I reckon you'd need UI resolution, opaque geometry resolution, transparent buffer res, reflection res, particle resolution, buffer formats (YCrCb subsampling reduces resolution), shadow resolution, typical texture fidelity (what good is 1080p framebuffer if texels are all stretched > 1 pixel?), average framerate and statistical deviation from the framerate (lowest trough and lowest sustained framerates and percentage of time spent at lower framerates). Oh, and tearing percentage and position in the frame. Have I missed anything needed to get a properly informed detailing of the game's visual output? I suppose AA methods and upscaling/reconstruction techniques would also need to be added. 60 fps via temporal upscaling from 30 fps couldn't fairly be listed as 60 fps (even if users can't tell the difference).
 
what minimalist design i want is the change from so many things to just bullet points. if it can be removed, just remove it. if it can be moved, jsut move it.

something like this:
-highlight the agreement that is important
-make the icons follow certain group of information

--> http://bramantya.org/stash/kz.jpg

so ideally the big bullet points will propery "explains" to buyer. also if adding information, keep it simple and understandable.

so i should have added this point on my picture above lol:
1080p video output**
**Only the output resolution is guaranteed, game resolution may varies
 
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@Shifty

The product description would have to be understandable and readable by the average customer so they could add the actual resolution at which the game runs in SP and MP (no need for DF to count pixels anymore and no more complainers), UI resolution, aspect ratio, audio supported, minimal bandwidth required to play online.
 
@cjail
yeah i agree that very important to make it understandable and readable by average consumer. Hiding behind law-speak is not good for consumer. But over-information also bad for consumer, it can be confusing.
 
The product description would have to be understandable and readable by the average customer so they could add the actual resolution at which the game runs in SP and MP.
As I've repeated on this board in recent years, there's no such thing as 'the resolution' any more. Frames are made of several buffers each of different resolutions. If you combine a native 1080p albedo buffer with an undersized GI illumination buffer, what's the final resolution? If your transparency and shadow buffers result in parts of the screen rendering at quarter res or lower, what do you call the final resolution? If lightness is native and chromo is subsampled, what's the final resolution?

Either you express all the pieces, or you accept there's no such thing as a final resolution. Or, I guess, a third option to contrive a standard definition which in the case of pixel counting would be the resolution of the rendered geometry buffer.

IMO it's all just an irrelevant can of worms. People have been buying and enjoying games without any idea of the resolution for decades. Plenty of PS2 games were upscaled without anyone being the wiser, and no-one suing over it. It serves no purpose. For those who really want to know, who'll base their buying decision on whether a game is 1080p or not, turn to specialist media and base your buying decisions on DF pixel counting. We have to do that regards whether a game is fun or not despite what claims of entertainment value are put on the box.

I can somewhat agree on not misleading, over stating resolutions using sometimes fuzzy maths, but the solution would be to drop it entirely. When developers are asked about native res, give a no comment.
 
the actual resolution
The entire problem here is that that's not a precisely-defined quantity.

Or, I guess, a third option to contrive a standard definition which in the case of pixel counting would be the resolution of the rendered geometry buffer.
Which still leaves some pretty entertaining ambiguity with spatial samples versus reprojected temporal samples.

"KZSF's technique tricked the pixel counters!"

I can somewhat agree on not misleading, over stating resolutions using sometimes fuzzy maths, but the solution would be to drop it entirely. When developers are asked about native res, give a no comment.
Pretty much.
 
Pretty much.
Which would actually be quite sad, and a typical product of how rubbish human beings can so often be. Devs have talked about resolutions as part of the art of game development, and it's been very interesting how they approach the balance of resources and priorities. Some people have taken that talk (sometimes a little over-enthusiastic at their achievements) and latched naively onto the numbers and turned them into a Real Thing to get invested in.

I suppose realistically they'll carry on doing that, but be sure to make no promises at all. "We're aiming for." "We can hit." "By and large we run at...so of course that can drop when you exceed the standard amount of stuff happening."
 
I am really happy that this happens. I further hope that GG has to pay.

Devs constantly getting away with shit is not acceptable anymore. The gaming industry is a major business with major income - they should also start to be responsible for their products and especially for their advertising.

Gears Bullshots. Sonys PS3 E3 movies. Watch Dogs. Every game claiming resolution and not delivering, Halo for instance. Servers crashing at release day, making the game unplayable. Major bugs. DICE. Etc etc

We need standards, we need rules, we need an independent consortium that set standards which every game producer can certify to if he delivers the technology and the quality.

Same goes for all the indie games and the myriads of small shitty games around - give me a certificate which identifies the pearls in the sea of crap.

Hope, we witness the beginning...
 
@billy
i think you can use reviews articles. althouugh unfortunately, not a lot of review touched the technical aspect (resolution, bug, etc).
btw MS and Sony have certification. so there's already a certain standart at play.

isnt there a government body that watch deceptive marketing? My country have it but they never do anything (except when the case was blown out of proportion by mass mdia).
 
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