Keeping games fresh forever.

[ninzel]

As a developer how would you go about making a 3d game that people want to play even 15 years from now?
It seems with vidoe games being dependent on technology and graphics,that as soon as a few years passes and more realistic games come out,the older games seem less relevant.As opposed to a good book that lasts forever or even a good TV show or movie.
So in an industry where tehnology advances so quickly,how do you negate that inherent aging process?

 

[digitalwanderer]

As a developer how would you go about making a 3d game that people want to play even 15 years from now?

I'd make it really, really, really good.

 

[ninzel]

I'd make it really, really, really good.

Ah I see,don't want to give away any trade secrets. Could be a little more vague. For example would a certain gameplay or graphical style be better?

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

As a developer how would you go about making a 3d game that people want to play even 15 years from now?
It seems with vidoe games being dependent on technology and graphics,that as soon as a few years passes and more realistic games come out,the older games seem less relevant.As opposed to a good book that lasts forever or even a good TV show or movie.
So in an industry where tehnology advances so quickly,how do you negate that inherent aging process?

Make it really good. Good storytelling and atmosphere never gets old. Just replay "Unreal" to see what I mean.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's all in the gameplay! I say stories get tired, whereas gameplay can stay fresh. Tetris is still playable now even though it's dated because the interactiveness was there. It's like sport. People play tennis and football still, hundreds of years after their creation, because those sports provide an interactive experience that's engaging.

 

[Rolf N]

Highly stylized looks tend to age the most gracefully. 2D/sprite/tile games ftw, but I suppose that's not what you want to hear.
Resist fashion trends. E.g. right now avoid "cool" bloom effects. They will not age well. Think about lens flares and what happened to them.

Avoid excessive realism
If you want graphics to be appreciated, make them matter for the game. I.e. they should be helpful as a guide to the player in identifying stuff and orienting themselves. Points of interaction should stand out. Multiple ways out of the same room/area should not look identically etc.

 

[ninzel]

So what are some games that you people think will stand up years from now that might be examples?

 

[Rolf N]

So what are some games that you people think will stand up years from now that might be examples?

That's tough without knowing your genre.

For some highly stylized and "useful" graphics though I'll just have to mention Mario Kart DS. Here's a nice video.
It's not that old but it essentially comes pre-aged already due to being on the DS. I think it looks great, even though objectively speaking it's totally simplistic.

 

[ninzel]

That's tough without knowing your genre.

For some highly stylized and "useful" graphics though I'll just have to mention Mario Kart DS. Here's a nice video.
It's not that old but it essentially comes pre-aged already due to being on the DS. I think it looks great, even though objectively speaking it's totally simplistic.

My genre? I was just wondering about your guy's personal opinions. It doesn't matter what genre.
I love Mario Kart DS, I own it stil and play it quite often.

 

[Rolf N]

My genre? I was just wondering about your guy's personal opinions. It doesn't matter what genre.

I thought you were designing something/thinking about designing something yourself. If I am to find good reference material for you, it would be good to know the genre of that

 

[ninzel]

I thought you were designing something/thinking about designing something yourself. If I am to find good reference material for you, it would be good to know the genre of that

Maybe I am,but I already know what I like.

 

[Rolf N]

Alright.
I think Warcraft 3 has the right kind of graphics to last a long while. I think I also still like Serious Sam (First Encounter), simply because it never looked realistic to begin with
Dethkarz is still nice, and I really have no idea how that works. Maybe the "futuristic" thing allows more imperfections to pass by unnoticed.

It's much easier to name stuff that didn't hold up as well. The 3d Final Fantasies for PSX come to mind, they just look ... messy. OTOH I really like the look of Grandia, which is, again, more colorful and stylized, and doesn't even try to look realistic.

And I want to be the first one who mentions Unreal, but I don't think it held up well. Much of the impressiveness of Unreal back when was the shock and awe that came from the engine tech, but those are all old hats now. To me it doesn't work anymore.

 

[TrungGap]

Diablo and Solitaire! Must I say more?

edited:

Okay, I guess I do need to say more...

Diablo: repetitiveness game style...random level generator...random treasures...ability to trade goods...and level up...

Solitaire: easy game...mind challenging instead of finger dexterity...

 

[Powderkeg]

As a developer how would you go about making a 3d game that people want to play even 15 years from now?

As a developer, I wouldn't bother. Nobody will still be buying the game in any significant quantity 15 years from now, no matter how good it is, so what would be the point of worrying about hitting that goal.

As long as it's good enough to sell for a year or two that's all that's necessary or justifyable.

 

[ninzel]

As a developer, I wouldn't bother. Nobody will still be buying the game in any significant quantity 15 years from now, no matter how good it is, so what would be the point of worrying about hitting that goal.

As long as it's good enough to sell for a year or two that's all that's necessary or justifyable.

Hmm I guess if you develop it with that attitude people probably won't be buyng your game in 15 years,but that kind of defeats the purpose of the question so...
Haven't you ever thought it would be nice to develop the next "12 Angry Men" or "To kill a Mockingbird" equivalent for the video game world? Something that people are still playing and talking about even 20 years from now and referring to it as classic,instead of just another peice of disposable entertainment.Or even if you don;t create the next great classic,but at least advancing the industry to create more timeless entertainment,like we have in TV and Movies and books.

 

[Powderkeg]

Hmm I guess if you develop it with that attitude people probably won't be buyng your game in 15 years,but that kind of defeats the purpose of the question so...
Haven't you ever thought it would be nice to develop the next "12 Angry Men" or "To kill a Mockingbird" equivalent for the video game world? Something that people are still playing and talking about even 20 years from now and referring to it as classic,instead of just another peice of disposable entertainment.Or even if you don;t create the next great classic,but at least advancing the industry to create more timeless entertainment,like we have in TV and Movies and books.

Allow me to make 2 points here.

#1. Over the 100+ years of movies there have only been a tiny handful of "12 Angry Men" or "To Kill A Mockingbird" level movies, and I don't think a single one setout to make a movie with that kind of staying power. It just sort of happened.

#2. How many games can you named that were developed prior to 1992 that still sell well, and are still played regularly by a fairly large group of people? The only ones I can think of are games like Mah-Jong, Solitair, Hearts, etc...


Creating a game that still draws people to it 15 years later is a nice goal to have, but it's also a Utopian ideal that isn't very realistic. IF such a game were made the appeal would be due more to simple luck than intentionally trying to make such an uber-game.

 

[ninzel]

Allow me to make 2 points here.

#1. Over the 100+ years of movies there have only been a tiny handful of "12 Angry Men" or "To Kill A Mockingbird" level movies, and I don't think a single one setout to make a movie with that kind of staying power. It just sort of happened.

#2. How many games can you named that were developed prior to 1992 that still sell well, and are still played regularly by a fairly large group of people? The only ones I can think of are games like Mah-Jong, Solitair, Hearts, etc...


Creating a game that still draws people to it 15 years later is a nice goal to have, but it's also a Utopian ideal that isn't very realistic. IF such a game were made the appeal would be due more to simple luck than intentionally trying to make such an uber-game.

Good points. Although I completely disgree with the handful only being classics comment ,I guess your right in that you can't really set out to make a classic. Although I wonder if game devs in general are even thinking that way or trying.

 

[darkblu]

Highly stylized looks tend to age the most gracefully.
<snip>
Avoid excessive realism
If you want graphics to be appreciated, make them matter for the game. I.e. they should be helpful as a guide to the player in identifying stuff and orienting themselves. Points of interaction should stand out. Multiple ways out of the same room/area should not look identically etc.

aside from the fact that i totally agree with you here, your post above exactly describes.. Rez. that game is a jewel even by today's standards, and even though it's not 15-year-old, it's making 5 years already.

i also second you about Dethkarz - that's still one totally fresh game today.

oh, btw, one particular '3d' game that i can see myself playing in 10 years is Ikaruga. it's already well vintage today, and it has not lost its appeal one bit.

 

[zed]

Allow me to make 2 points here.

#1. Over the 100+ years of movies there have only been a tiny handful of "12 Angry Men" or "To Kill A Mockingbird" level movies, and I don't think a single one setout to make a movie with that kind of staying power. It just sort of happened.

offtopic,
being the film crtic that i am but both of those are two of the most overrated movies ever (the same with mockingbird book) another is godfather1/2 true both films are better than average but timeless classics? no. why was 12 angry men famous (ok shot in the one room) actually now i think a bitt more they are both the same film!
both films deal with the inherent predujice of america
both feature one guy making a stand against prejudice in a courtroom situation
A/ a lawyer defending a black guy against the prejudgements of the town
B/ a juror defending a hispanic guy against the prejudgements of the rest of the jury
now timeless classics are more like - M, ikuru, harold and maude, brazil etc (note these aint my favourites at all, if it was favourites itll be more rockyhorror show/evildead2 etc)

actually if u like "12 Angry Men" or "To Kill A Mockingbird" u may like M its a similar senerio, crime + punishment

 

[nintenho]

As long as you don't rape the player with your gameplay like they were the earliest human resource and you put gameplay that is fun for the demographic then I think the game will last a long time.