ps2xboxcube
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Japanese Negative on PS3
- Thread starter ps2xboxcube
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I can't see how anyone can find the MRSP as being anywhere near reasonable for a console. 
sonyps35 said:
That isn't exactly true. I live in Japan. DVDs and CDs are actually quite a bit more expensive in Japan, but the big thing is that Japan is a culture that saves. So they are much more hesitant to buy things. Saving is almost mandatory in Japan. You can't make money by investing like you can in America. You can expect typical returns on investments to be around half a percent! So you have to save a lot more. Also... Japanese have CD and DVD rental shows that sell blank CD and DVD media at the checkout. It is expected that people will rent the movie/cd and then rip it. I find it strange, but interesting. In fact the rent and rip isn't a bad compromise for the media industry either since they get income from the rentals from people that wouldn't have bought the albums or DVDs.
RancidLunchmeat
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OICAspork said:
How is that possible? Can you explain to me the economics of that?
I mean if the Nikkei or the TSE were only providing returns of .5%, then they wouldn't get any outside investment and the entire markets would collapse... wouldn't they?
Let me step in here.
Interest rates in Japan have been hovering around the zero mark for years now as the central bank has tried to fight the deflationary spiral that has gripped Japan for the last decade or so. (what the Japanese refer to as the 'lost' decade) Since Japanese as a whole favor 'safe' investment vehicles such as bonds and deposits placed through the postal system, the rate of return is obviously going to be very low in that sort of interest-rate environment.
But keep in mind, when in a deflationary environment, remember you actually *make* money by not doing anything at all with the money you have. Thus, the incentive is to save... thus domestic spending is reduced, thus pricing pressures increase, and it goes on and on.
The cycle recently broke though, and the central bank is set to raise interest rates for the first time in years. The price of goods has been rising steadily, domestic consumer and industry confidence is on the rise, wages are climbing, and unemployment is low.
This whole state of stagntation OICAspork has described will - hopefully - be a thing of the past.
As for the Nikkei, like I said after the 80's bubble burst, it's more or less been avoided by the common Japanese. But it's worth noting it climbed something like 50% last year alone, has been one of the best performing stock markets in the industrialized world of late, and has seen a spike in both domestic capital expenditure and foreign investment both.
That's the micro-synopsis of Japan's economic state of affairs.
Interest rates in Japan have been hovering around the zero mark for years now as the central bank has tried to fight the deflationary spiral that has gripped Japan for the last decade or so. (what the Japanese refer to as the 'lost' decade) Since Japanese as a whole favor 'safe' investment vehicles such as bonds and deposits placed through the postal system, the rate of return is obviously going to be very low in that sort of interest-rate environment.
But keep in mind, when in a deflationary environment, remember you actually *make* money by not doing anything at all with the money you have. Thus, the incentive is to save... thus domestic spending is reduced, thus pricing pressures increase, and it goes on and on.
The cycle recently broke though, and the central bank is set to raise interest rates for the first time in years. The price of goods has been rising steadily, domestic consumer and industry confidence is on the rise, wages are climbing, and unemployment is low.
This whole state of stagntation OICAspork has described will - hopefully - be a thing of the past.
As for the Nikkei, like I said after the 80's bubble burst, it's more or less been avoided by the common Japanese. But it's worth noting it climbed something like 50% last year alone, has been one of the best performing stock markets in the industrialized world of late, and has seen a spike in both domestic capital expenditure and foreign investment both.
That's the micro-synopsis of Japan's economic state of affairs.
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RancidLunchmeat
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xbdestroya said:
Well, if that's the case, isn't it the Japanese peoples own fault for not investing their money in a vehicle that could provide a higher rate of return?
Thank you very much.
Really, it makes a lot of sense. Despite everything I like about the PS3, Sony has made some rather unwise moves imho. The japanese like small, efficient things. The PS3 has a lot of fat, despite what has already been trimmed. Cell is still an amazing CPU, and RSX is no slouch, but the PS3 doesn't feel like a streamlined design. The xbox360 does, though I personally dislike the direction they took with it.
My hope is that the devs are going to save Sony on this one. Cell and the RSX have a lot of potential despite Sony's faltering. Teams like Ninja Theory have done amazing things with the hardware and will continue to do amazing things. Enlisting the opensource community is an exceptionally smart move if they play their cards right. Still, it's sony's game to lose and there are only so many mistakes they can make.
Nite_Hawk
My hope is that the devs are going to save Sony on this one. Cell and the RSX have a lot of potential despite Sony's faltering. Teams like Ninja Theory have done amazing things with the hardware and will continue to do amazing things. Enlisting the opensource community is an exceptionally smart move if they play their cards right. Still, it's sony's game to lose and there are only so many mistakes they can make.
Nite_Hawk
inefficient
Veteran
Nite_Hawk said:
It's far too early to say which decisions were wise and which were unwise. I think many arm chair analysts discount the amount of effort that goes into making strategic decisions.
Nothing wrong with speculating. But the platform is still nearly half a year away from launch.
inefficient said:
I agree completely. Strategic decision such as this, or naming a console after urine is not something that they just come up with on a bender. However, I share the same opinion as many others - the price is maybe a bit too high for the average consumer, and might hurt them in the beginning at least.
If memory serves me right, Sony's always been quite slow and reluctant to drop prices, and there's a good reason not to. I feel that if you drop the price soon after launch, it'll give out the message that you didn't believe in the initial strategy at all.
Just my two cents.
Care to mention anything equally/more powerful that is smaller?Nite_Hawk said:
Not really, in my opinion. It's a vast improvement on the old box, but in no way can this thing be called streamlined, especially with the ugly external plastic tub that is the HDD stuck to the side/top of it. Really breaks against the overall design of the thing.
360Guden Oden said:
It's interesting that while the vast majority (90%) agree the price is too expensive yet half of them did not change their opinion after e3. So basicaly half of them knew what the price would be and thought it was too expensive yet Sony convinced them they would sell out while a third of them found out at the show and are rethinking their strategy.
{hmm ... Wii or 360 ...} :smile:
inefficient said:
Half a year? More like a quarter...
/nitpick
Guden Oden said:
Some of the PS3 design decisions, and the circumstances surrounding the design decisions make me wary. It's not any one thing, but a combination of them. The RSX will probably end up being a fine (even superior) GPU for the system, but I doubt it was part of the original design and I wonder how much it cost to add it in after the fact. The seperate DDR and rambus memory buses seem redundant and costly. The HDD I'm somewhat mixed on, but there is no denying that this is also adding to the cost. Thankfully they decided to get rid of the extra two ethernet ports and second hdmi port. They would have been "nice" features, but most people wouldn't have used them. Still, I'm suprised that they got as far as including them in the 2005 mockups and feature list before realizing they should be scrapped.
Though I'm not particularly fond of the xbox360, I think we need to give microsoft credit for what they've accomplished at a $300/$400 price point. It's pretty obvious that they were designing the system to provide bang for the buck. The PS3 seems to have been designed to include every last feature no matter what the cost. I think the PS3 will still be the superior system in the end, but it costs hundreds of dollars more and I'm not sure it's so much better that it's worth the extra cost. I suppose only time will tell.
Nite_Hawk
Nite_Hawk said:
Agreed - 360 does look to be the more elegant architecture of the two - however one might question their edram AA implementation.
When one looks at the differences of the ps2/xbox gen and the ps3/360 gen, the Japanese clearly favored the ps2 for many reasons.
Size
design
efficiency
functionality
game support
name recognition
When one contrasts these things this gen it seems there is a much more balanced playing field in the things Japanese are interested in, yet the 360 seems to be doing worse than xbox. With Japanese support for ps3 now in question, where does this leave them? Will the market move to Wii or will MS woo them late or will they just hold on to their ps2s until they can afford a ps3?
Perhaps they will be a smaller player in the home console market this gen and just stick with their DS's!
TheChefO said:Perhaps they will be a smaller player in the home console market this gen and just stick with their DS's!
I think that is the most likely case. The Japanese console market has been shrinking like crazy for years now. They used to be on par with North America in console sales, but have fallen to a very distant 3rd, well behind Europe now. If they reject the PS3 I rather suspect they'll reject all consoles, and stick to alternative gaming methods such as handhelds and cell phones.
To put Japanese console sales into perspective, the Xbox 360 has sold more units in the US in 2006 than all console sales combined in Japan, despite the major supply problems the 360 has had.
Powderkeg said:
Well with that scenerio playing out, where will Japanese developer's go? Will they just man down their production and focus on portables or try to keep their heads above water by swimming on cutting edge console game sales outside of Japan? If they do this will they not be more tempted by the larger installed base of 360 in all places outside of Japan?
TheChefO said:
I would suspect that the smaller, typically Japanese only development houses will switch to other platforms such as the handhelds. Larger developers/publishers who already produce games internationally will be keeping a much closer eye on western markets, and tailor their games to those regions, and whatever system is selling best there.
And of course some places will simply shut down.
The Japanese console market looks ready to crash. Frankly if I was a Japanese game developer, I would be very hesitant to even start a new console game ro any system right now unless it was predestined for western markets, and even then I would probably plan on it being multiplatform.
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