Is Gamecube in peril?

[Clashman]

I think one thing keeping Xbox ahead of GC that most people here probably don't want to admit is DVD capability. I work at a video store, and I have no doubt that both Xbox and PS2 have had mammoth roles in bringing DVD to the forefront of home electronics. I'd say at my store, (admittedly in a lower income community, which may affect the proportion of standalone to consoles because people simply can't afford both), at least 25 to 40 % of our DVD rentals are for people who use them on their PS2 or Xbox.

This has most certainly worked the other way around as well. People, (or their kids), want both DVD and Videogames for their Christmas/Birthday/etc presents. PS2 and Xbox have been convenient ways to kill two birds with one stone. That, IMO, has hurt GC at least as much as any "kiddy" image they hold with the general public.

 

[Tagrineth]

Like Blinx, Gunvalkrye, Sega GT and numerous others.

SegaGT wasn't a disappointment in my book, it's leaps and bounds better than the Dreamcast version...

If SegaGT is a disappointment, Super Mario Sunshine is a total bomb.

(I honestly played quite a bit more SegaGT than SMS, but I realize not everyone is like me)

He meant SALES.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

I think one thing keeping Xbox ahead of GC that most people here probably don't want to admit is DVD capability. I work at a video store, and I have no doubt that both Xbox and PS2 have had mammoth roles in bringing DVD to the forefront of home electronics. I'd say at my store, (admittedly in a lower income community, which may affect the proportion of standalone to consoles because people simply can't afford both), at least 25 to 40 % of our DVD rentals are for people who use them on their PS2 or Xbox.

This has most certainly worked the other way around as well. People, (or their kids), want both DVD and Videogames for their Christmas/Birthday/etc presents. PS2 and Xbox have been convenient ways to kill two birds with one stone. That, IMO, has hurt GC at least as much as any "kiddy" image they hold with the general public.

if DVD is the ONLY reason, those people are stupid, the Apex DVD player you can get at Walmart for $58, is BETTER than the Xbox's playback(it plays DVD's, VCD's, SVCD's, MP3, PHoto CD's..etc etc), some think its crap because earlier models were, but my GF got one, while I got a $200+ namebrand DVD player, and I like hers better than mine(more options, and the playback is just as good).

the real reason, is because subtract the price of all the free stuff your getting with the Xbox, its pretty much selling for $99

 

[Clashman]

I didn't mean to insinuate that this was the ONLY reason people were buying these consoles. They do make games, too.

However, DVD functionality is what people in marketing refer to as a selling point. It is an item that has increased in desireablity in the past year as some of the big retailers like Best Buy and places like Blockbuster deliberately try to phase out VHS. Consequently, people feel that if they want to continue watching movies throughout the next decade or so, DVD is something that they are going to need.

At the same time, there remains a high demand for the latest and greatest videogame machines, which brings us to PS2, GameCube, and XBOX. DVD functionality has given both PS2 and XBOX an extremely important bullet point over GC, because it is something that people feel they need. Without this, I don't think XBOX would have that significant a lead over GC, (and even as is, that lead is not insurmountable), and I also think that even DC would have fared much better against PS2. You're welcome to disagree, though.

 

[Kolgar]

Johnny, good post. I agree - Nintendo's Draconian business practices are once again hurting the company and limiting the success of its current home console.

Until Nintendo stops thinking that it alone knows what's best for consumers, retailers, and game developers, it will continue to lose market share until eventually it has no choice but to seek refuge in the portable games market.

And when Sony or Microsoft eventually enters THAT arena, Nintendo will be in for a really rude awakening. Maybe they will ultimately become a third party. If not, there's always playing cards.

Like some of you, I own all of the next-gen systems. Last night, I pulled my Gamecube out of the spare room (I keep it there because I don't play it enough for it to warrant a space in my crowded entertainment center) and put in a copy of Super Monkey Ball. I had a blast, but the experience was bittersweet nonetheless.

The fact is, I like Gamecube. It's a great little console. But I'm dissapointed that Nintendo's stubborness and refusal to adjust to current market conditions has once again resulted in a dearth of games. The Gamecube is a system with so much potential; it irks me that this potential will likely go unrealized.

And why? Because the only reason Nintendo is in the hardware business is to sell its own software. To hell with the third parties; to hell with the consumers. Nintendo doesn't want to offer the largest game selection. It wants to sell Miyamoto's games.

Heck, the console's very design speaks this loud and clear. Look at the Gamecube's game pad. Look at N64's controller. Both designed with Miyamoto's games in mind, making them cumbersome and practically useless for sports and fighting games.

And to the point about DVD capability: I agree that not having the feature is a problem for Gamecube. People want as much "free" stuff as they can get in one box, both because it lets them do more and because it eliminates the need for one more box beneath the TV.

But again, enabling DVD capability would create more competition for Nintendo's own games. If people are watching DVD movies, they're not playing the latest Mario or Zelda title.

Nintendo, it's time to wake up already. The alarm has been going off since 1995.

Kolgar

 

[CaptainHowdy]

I'm glad you think you know how to do business better than Nintendo, there is a reason they are the worlds longest lived game company, and you dont have one.

They do ONLY games, they cant rely on thier other products to back them up like Sony/MS, so they can not afford to just lose millions to billions on the console war, Nintendo is the only one really making a profits, so they must be doing something right.

 

[Goldni]

Right Nintendo should have included the DVD and or a HD into the GCN so that it would actually LOSE money on each one rather than make a profit.

Look people just stop it with the Nintendo going 3rd party stuff. I've heard itsince the N64 "failed" at selling just 30 million units wordwide. Hell, I'm seeing the GCN's outlook more promising at the start of this year moreso than last year. And trust me, I'm sure Nintendo has taken a loooong look at Sega's current situation. Yeah, they left the hardware business to go to the "greener pastures" of 3rd partydom to compete with EA's sports titles and look where that got them. One bets they'd wished they had that decision to do over. Nintendo knows they are in good shape...check that great shape. If they become the "Mac" of consoles than so be it. I'm betting they end up moving the 25 million GCNs by 2005 like Satora Iwata projected they could. If they do that (which they are half way there now) than they aint going nowhere.


PS. Nevermind the new deal with NEC.

 

[Glonk]

Like Blinx, Gunvalkrye, Sega GT and numerous others.

SegaGT wasn't a disappointment in my book, it's leaps and bounds better than the Dreamcast version...

If SegaGT is a disappointment, Super Mario Sunshine is a total bomb.

(I honestly played quite a bit more SegaGT than SMS, but I realize not everyone is like me)

He meant SALES.

Then my point still stands, doesn't it.

 

[PC-Engine]

People don't realize that the main reason why Xbox is doing well now is because MS has the ability to lose huge sums of money by practically given them away. If they were a small company they'd be out of business real soon

It's like comparing Nintendo to AMD and saying that both are doing everything wrong with what they have

And regarding DVD playback, well if that was one of it's main selling points then Xbox would also be outselling GCN in Japan which it isn't.

On the other side of the coin, I'm glad Nintendo didn't add DVD playback to the GCN, because it would've cost more at launch and I bought mine at launch. I also already own at least one DVD player like most people.

And please do not compare SEGA with Nintendo as SEGA has made numerous bad business decisions in the past that ultimately caused their downfall.

 

[Kolgar]

Thanks, Cap, but I do believe that Sony has been making profits on its PlayStation 2 business for some time now.

Please only reply with facts. I'm not interested in anything less.

Kolgar

 

[Kolgar]

PC Engine wrote:

And regarding DVD playback, well if that was one of it's main selling points then Xbox would also be outselling GCN in Japan which it isn't.

No. DVD playback does not make Xbox any more attractive to Japanese consumers. Their PS2s already do that.

Kolgar

 

[marconelly!]

I just find it odd that some people don't stop and think this the other way around:

Microsoft is selling their console for pretty much $100 now considering the two games deal, their advertising budget is many times that of Nintendo, their broadcast time is vastly bigger than Nintendo's, they offer machine that plays DVDs, bigger game selection. Also, they are one of the most powerful and successful American companies. Yet - even in America, their lead is not very significant, and their sales in one of the most important months have been equal to those of Nintendo's machine.

 

[Blade]

Marconelly: Actually, according to NPD the lead is rather significant in the US.

Now then, if GCN and Xbox maintain a 500-600K difference going into 2004.. then the lead will be insignificant.

 

[PC-Engine]

PC Engine wrote:

And regarding DVD playback, well if that was one of it's main selling points then Xbox would also be outselling GCN in Japan which it isn't.

No. DVD playback does not make Xbox any more attractive to Japanese consumers. Their PS2s already do that.

Kolgar

In other words, most people already have a DVD player

 

[Kolgar]

Goldni wrote:

I'm sure Nintendo has taken a loooong look at Sega's current situation. Yeah, they left the hardware business to go to the "greener pastures" of 3rd partydom to compete with EA's sports titles and look where that got them.

Someone already pointed out that Sega had made several missteps which contributed to its downfall in the hardware biz. But the other problem is Sega's games themselves.

It's arguable that Sega's games just don't appeal to the mainstream as much as Sega thinks they do. There are a lot of great titles that come out of the company, but two of my favorites - Rez and Jet Set Radio - are pretty much "niche" products.

And as far as sports games - I personally think that they have a long way to go before they can match or surpass what EA is doing. Even if Sega's sports titles were significantly better than EA's, they'd have to overcome EA's solidly established reputation and brand awareness.

That's no easy task by any means.

Kolgar

 

[Kolgar]

Marconelly wrote:

Microsoft is selling their console for pretty much $100 now considering the two games deal, their advertising budget is many times that of Nintendo, their broadcast time is vastly bigger than Nintendo's, they offer machine that plays DVDs, bigger game selection. Also, they are one of the most powerful and successful American companies. Yet - even in America, their lead is not very significant, and their sales in one of the most important months have been equal to those of Nintendo's machine.

That's because the console war, like all marketing, is not merely a battle of products - it's about positioning. Mindshare.

Nintendo's firmly established. Microsoft and Xbox aren't. To change this will require a lot of time, money, and effort. Fortunately for Microsoft, they have all three.

Kolgar

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Thanks, Cap, but I do believe that Sony has been making profits on its PlayStation 2 business for some time now.

Please only reply with facts. I'm not interested in anything less.

Kolgar

actually, the havent really, they are not losing as much per system as MS, but they are still losing minor amounts of money, Nintendo is profiting both in software and hardware.

 

[Kolgar]

Hmm. Someone earlier said that Sony may be making a profit of around $25 on every PS2 sold. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Even if Sony only breaks even, or takes a slight loss on the hardware, I still have to believe that it is making tons of cash on the software side.

Certainly more than Nintendo is making off software sales on Gamecube. Although when you factor in GBA, that's an entirely different story.

Kolgar

 

[Teasy]

Glonk

Actually your point doesn't stand in any way AFAICS. Did Sega GT 2002 sell more then the DC version?.. maybe. But was Sega GT 2002 better then SMS?.. did Sega GT 2002 sell more then SMS? No and no

You can have whatever personal opinion you want on Sega GT being better then SMS, but in the end the fact is that Sega GT 2002 wasn't in the same league as SMS according to most people, and of course it sold nowhere near as many copies as well.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Hmm. Someone earlier said that Sony may be making a profit of around $25 on every PS2 sold. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Even if Sony only breaks even, or takes a slight loss on the hardware, I still have to believe that it is making tons of cash on the software side.

Certainly more than Nintendo is making off software sales on Gamecube. Although when you factor in GBA, that's an entirely different story.

Kolgar

hardly, being Nintendo gets 100% profit off thier own games, Sony doesnt have many strong first party titles, most of the big numbers go to third partys like Take 2, Square, etc.