(Interview) NVidia on Playstation 3, Xbox 360, & Wii

[hey69]

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2006/07/nvidia_ceo_an_e.html

Do you think you picked the right horse in the video game war this time?

You can't build chips for all the game consoles. That's not possible. They would all like a slightly different style from the others. Difference is important. The same chip company would have difficulty designing chips for the different styles. It's also so high stakes that you need to focus. No one has enough extraneous resources around to build chips for all the game consoles. You have to build one or so at a time. In a lot of ways, they also pick you. Sony picked us and Microsoft didn't. It's not so much we don't pick the horses. I don't think that working with Sony is wrong. There is no way that is going to be wrong. There are many wonderful things that Sony did. I'm excited that they made Blu-ray high-definition storage as a standard part of the PlayStation 3 platform. The first PlayStation had a CD-ROM drive. The PlayStation 2 had DVD. It makes no sense for the PlayStation 3 to use DVDs. To postpone it by a few months so they could include Blu-Ray was a master stroke. When that comes out, it's going to look so much more advanced than last-generation game consoles. I think that was a wonderful call on their part.


When you look back on your relationship with Microsoft on the Xbox, did it serve your purpose of getting into the game console business?

I always felt it was inevitable we would work on consoles. We invest $750 million a year in R&D in graphics processing. No other company invests that much in graphics processing today. This is such an incredibly deep technology and there is so much more to do. It makes sense that in the long-term we would work on game consoles as well. The others can't keep up with the R&D that we do. That part makes perfect sense to me.

Given how the Xbox 360 turned out, did you have any regret about not winning the graphics chip for that console?

Not at all. We could not afford to build the graphics for the 360. Our most important asset is our people. If we use our people on a project where the economic return is not good enough, and there are other projects we could be working on, then we're going to lose money. We were a lot smaller company than ATI at the time. Maybe ATI could afford it and we couldn't. I know I couldn't afford it. I would love to build it. I just can't afford it.

ATI is excited about unified shaders. If you pull back, how do you see if your people are making the right decisions?

For each one of our generations, we need to have a vision of what we want to do. It costs hundreds of millions of dollars to come up with a new architecture. I don't know what they've built for next generation. It comes down to a different system vision for what we are trying to achieve.

Are you manufacturing the RSX for Sony now?

It is in production. It has been for some time.

Do you have a PlayStation 3 in your home?

Not yet. I hope I get one of the first ones.

Does it look like it's on schedule?


Sony hasn't changed their schedule. I think that's the most important thing. I thought it was a master stroke that they did.

Everyone criticized them for falling behind and having a high price and costs as high as $900. Why was it a master stroke?

PlayStation 2 was launched seven years ago in Japan at about $399. If you use inflation, it's the same price, approximately. The important thing is you cannot announce a game consoel for the next ten years and not have Blu-Ray. It's an impossible scenario. I think they got that perspective right. The moment we put those consoles together it's going to be very clear. If I'm going to buy a next-generation game console, I'm going to buy a console with next-generation media. It's going to last 10 years.

Two out of three of the players have bet you don't need it. Nintendo has bet you don't even need HD for the next five years.

Nintendo's perspective has always been different. The platforms that are being built now are not just game consoles. You use it for all kinds of other kinds of applications. In the case of Nintendo, they wanted to build a game console. They built a wonderful game device. Their focus is games and enjoyment. They will be myopically focused on that. I think that is terrific. Their perspective is different from the other two. If I'm going to buy a next-generation game console, I'm going to want next-generation media.

Do you think Microsoft planned for a five-year cycle and that Sony planned for a ten-year cycle?

I'm not sure how Microsoft is going to do in this transition. They are clever and they will figure out a way. I'll make a prediction that Xbox 360 can't possibly be a DVD-only device by Christmas of next year.

They will modify it?

I don't know how they will do it. But I just can't imagine going to a store and saying that this console has a Blu-Ray and this one has DVD. Remember Dreamcast?

Do you think they will go further than the HD-DVD accessory that they have planned?

I don't know how they will do that. Then they will have two platforms. You have the Xbox 360 with DVD. That is what Xbox 360 will mean. If you want to play HD, you have to buy an accesory? If that's the case, I'll buy an HD player. I know Microsoft will come up with clever ideas. These are the challenges. Every Xbox 360 they make in advance of that decision makes that decision that much harder. You could have two Xbox 360s. It's a very tough strategic challenge. Sega had the same strategic challenge when they launched ahead of Sony on PlayStation 2. The executives at Sega are very smart and the Dreamcast was a very good machine.

 

[Powderkeg]

I love PR.

Nothing provides instant contridiction quite like a PR statement.

It makes no sense for the PlayStation 3 to use DVDs. To postpone it by a few months so they could include Blu-Ray was a master stroke.

Sony hasn't changed their schedule. I think that's the most important thing.

 

[Titanio]

That's not a contradiction - he was asked if it looks like it's on schedule. Given this is a recent interview, that's obviously referring to the post-delay schedule. If he had said "no, Sony has changed their schedule", people would be wondering if there was another delay.

 

[Powderkeg]

That's not a contradiction - he was asked if it looks like it's on schedule. Given this is a recent interview, that's obviously referring to the post-delay schedule. If he had said "no, Sony has changed their schedule", people would be wondering if there was another delay.

Oh please. I could pick this apart all day long for pure PR statements.

I like this one.

Everyone criticized them for falling behind and having a high price and costs as high as $900. Why was it a master stroke?

PlayStation 2 was launched seven years ago in Japan at about $399. If you use inflation, it's the same price, approximately.

Oh yes, if you exclude the US price, count for inflation, and ignore the fact that their competition didn't raise the price of their baseline console despite inflation, then it's the same price, approximately, and a "master stroke" on the part of Sony.




This one is even better when you look across several answers to get the full response...

I'll make a prediction that Xbox 360 can't possibly be a DVD-only device by Christmas of next year.

They will modify it?

I don't know how they will do it.

Do you think they will go further than the HD-DVD accessory that they have planned?

I don't know how they will do that. Then they will have two platforms.

So he makes a prediction, then says he doesn't know how his prediction can possibly come true. Good stuff.

 

[Bad_Boy]

So he makes a prediction, then says he doesn't know how his prediction can possibly come true. Good stuff.

Um...he makes a prediction that they will modify it, and hes not sure how they will modify it. I dont see what your trying to say. There could be multiple ways on how MS goes about "modifing it", if ofcourse they even do. So to say he doesnt know how they will go about modifying it isnt all that bad as you make it out to be. It's a prediction, not an absolute truth.

Anyways The full article is an interesting read none the less, thanks Hey69.

 

[Guden Oden]

Gah, marketroids always make me feel icky on the outside, like I've been covered in pig fat.

...Not that that's ever happened for real mind you.


I wish they'd just shut up, and put up. You can brag all you want, Nvidia bitch, once you guys have released PS3 and it's a big success. Until then, STFU please.

 

[slider]

Oh please. I could pick this apart all day long for pure PR statements.

But that's not what Titanio was talking about or responding to. Yes, everyone can see this for what it is.

Edit: When I say "this" I meant the interview.

 

[Titanio]

Oh please. I could pick this apart all day long for pure PR statements.

Of course, it's as loaded as you'd expect, but I'm just pointing out the first example isn't the contradiction you presented it as, that's all.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Oh please. I could pick this apart all day long for pure PR statements.

It's a bad interview (aren't they all?) but that particular firt example wasn't right as Titanio pointed out. Poorly worded, but in that one case (out of plenty of bad phrases in this interview, so bad I hope it's just lousy translating!) the machine is both postponed and yet still on schedule.

Personally I'm confused by the references to masterstrokes. In fact I'm confused by all of it. It's probably a case of a non-PR person being hit with questions he feels obliged to give a PR response to. Also the reasoning for PS3 to use the latest drive tech (constant progression) is going to run out in a generation or two. Are we going to need terabyte holographic discs in PS4? Or will BRD still useable (I guess 200 GB discs would work, but then that's not a next-gen drive for a next-gen consoles)

 

[fearsomepirate]

The only thing missing from this interview is someone piping up to say that games will be the dominant form of art in the 21st century.

 

[Powderkeg]

Um...he makes a prediction that they will modify it, and hes not sure how they will modify it. I dont see what your trying to say. There could be multiple ways on how MS goes about "modifing it", if ofcourse they even do. So to say he doesnt know how they will go about modifying it isnt all that bad as you make it out to be. It's a prediction, not an absolute truth.

It's a prediction that he is unable to justify.

If I predicted that the Xbox 360 would be the hands-down winner next-gen, but then turned around and said that I can't imagine how my prediction would come true, would you not question it?

In fact his prediction was questioned and all he could respond with was to give reasons why his prediction would be wrong.

 

[Hardknock]

ATi is much bigger than Nvidia? That's a shock to me, I thought Nvidia has been doing graphics much longer...

 

[Carl B]

It's a pretty sad interview in many ways. The interviewer clearly is trying to get the NVidia guy to speak negatively about Sony (and his own company!), and the interviewee for his part is too caught up in BS talking points. Why did they even agree to do this interview?

 

[Bad_Boy]

It's a prediction that he is unable to justify.

If I predicted that the Xbox 360 would be the hands-down winner next-gen, but then turned around and said that I can't imagine how my prediction would come true, would you not question it?

In fact his prediction was questioned and all he could respond with was to give reasons why his prediction would be wrong.

Thats kinda different. His prediction is saying that they will modify it, but he doesnt know how, probably due to there being many ways they would go about modifying it. In his opinion he obviously doesnt see how they wont get by without modifying it. Doesnt mean he knows how they will modify it. Thats like saying I will eat something today, but I dont know what I will eat because theres many things I could eat. Your analogy makes it sound like, I will eat something today, but I dont know if I will. Doesnt quite make sense.

 

[AlexV]

Nope, ATi is ancient in this business. nVidia is a young and restless Jedi though, so that has little relevance.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

WOW! All those replies and only Hardknock comes close to touching on what I found was the most important/revealing part of the interview.

That nVidia simply couldn't afford to develop the gpu for the 360. That's huge, IMO. I'm sorry if maybe that's 'old' news, but it certainly does speak to the fact that Sony got an 'off the shelf' GPU from nVidia for the PS3, while MS got a custom gpu from ATI.

I guess we suspected this quite some time ago, and were all pretty certain this was the case more recently, but for the nVidia PR guy to come out and essentially say that the GPU in the 360 is more complicated (he damn near almost said it was superior), just blew my socks off.

 

[Titanio]

That nVidia simply couldn't afford to develop the gpu for the 360. That's huge, IMO. I'm sorry if maybe that's 'old' news, but it certainly does speak to the fact that Sony got an 'off the shelf' GPU from nVidia for the PS3, while MS got a custom gpu from ATI.

It's little to do with the level of customisation involved, but how the business would have fit into their own roadmap. What MS wanted would have required nVidia to develop something that was running perpendicular to their own plans, which would not have been very economical.

ATi, on the other hand, have an eye on leveraging the work in Xenos in their next chip (if there wasn't a hint of it already in some of their existing cards?). So MS's demands were a much better fit for them.

but for the nVidia PR guy to come out and essentially say that the GPU in the 360 is more complicated (he damn near almost said it was superior).

He didn't say or suggest either of those things.

 

[OtakingGX]

It's also funny that he mentions that "with inflation" the PS3 is essentially the same price as the PS2 was at launch, in Japan. If you want to use the Japanese price, then lets use Japanese inflation, or as it has been lately, deflation.

The PS2 launched in Japan at 39,800 yen. The Japanese CPI was 97.5 last month, and 2000 was normalized at 100. So the current launch price of the PS2 would be 39,800 / 100 * 97.5 = 38,805 yen. Contrast that to the launch price for the PS3, 59,800 yen, and you see that's a 54% increase in price, adjusted for inflation.

With a U.S. launch price of $300 in 2000, that would now be $354 as we have had inflation since then. So it's only a 41% increase in price after adjusting for inflation in the US. Selling hardware in the U.S. has been good to Sony and Nintendo lately. As the yen goes down in value, the selling price of their hardware essentially goes up.

 

[rabidrabbit]

WOW! All those replies and only Hardknock comes close to touching on what I found was the most important/revealing part of the interview.

That nVidia simply couldn't afford to develop the gpu for the 360. That's huge, IMO. I'm sorry if maybe that's 'old' news, but it certainly does speak to the fact that Sony got an 'off the shelf' GPU from nVidia for the PS3, while MS got a custom gpu from ATI.

I guess we suspected this quite some time ago, and were all pretty certain this was the case more recently, but for the nVidia PR guy to come out and essentially say that the GPU in the 360 is more complicated (he damn near almost said it was superior), just blew my socks off.

No, I think you understood it wrong.
It's MS and Sony who are paying for the chips, not nVidia and Ati.

I think you did not even read their reply, which I quote here for you:

If we use our people on a project where the economic return is not good enough, and there are other projects we could be working on, then we're going to lose money. We were a lot smaller company than ATI at the time.

It's well known nVidia had a less than satisfactory deal with MS with the xbox, whereas the deal with Sony is propably going to make more sense economically to them, with Sony and partners manufacturing the RSX and all.

This in no way indicates the RSX is "just an off-shelf part". He just says they had no manpower for both xbox360 and PS3 chips, unlike Ati had for Wii and xbox360.
They did have the resources for RSX and their PC cards though.
The 50 or so (plus Sony engineers?) engineers working for RSX for the last few years, why so many for "just an off-shelf part?

 

[Jawed]

It's little to do with the level of customisation involved, but how the business would have fit into their own roadmap. What MS wanted would have required nVidia to develop something that was running perpendicular to their own plans, which would not have been very economical.

With nearly $500M in lost profit caused by FX (and the fact the architecture was a dead end) they had to rip up their roadmap, which is why they couldn't afford to do a fully custom console GPU, for anyone. That's why Sony got something off the shelf with some tweaks.

Jawed