Innovation this Generation

[Johnny Awesome]

On the subject of innovation I'd like to go by platform and list a few for this generation (on their original platforms):

Dreamcast - Crazy Taxi, Samba de Amigo, Space Channel 5, Seaman, Shenmue, Jet Set Radio, REZ, Phantasy Star Online, Typing of the Dead, Metropolis Street Racer

PS2 - ICO, Frequency, Katari Damacy, GTA3

Xbox - Halo, Splinter Cell, Steel Battalion, Star Wars: KOTOR, BLiNX, Sudeki

Cube - Pikmin, Metroid Prime, Super Monkey Ball, Viewtiful Joe, Animal Crossing

So there was a fair bit of innovation throughout this hardware cycle, but spread around amongst the various platforms. Of the big 1st party publishers Sega (10) innovated the most with Sony (3), MS (3) and Nintendo (3) innovating the least.

 

[London Geezer]

I'd argue that MSR on DC has nothing innovative to it. It's just a racing game, and not the best at it either. Phantasy Star Online... Dont know about that either...

Sony has the original Jak & Daxter which was quite innovative in that it was the first completely load-free platformer, although it was "just " a platformer.
Rez was on PS2 too, so doesn't that count?
Devil May Cry was quite innovative for what it did at the time.
Viewtiful Joe is multiplatform too, doesn't that count?
So is Splinter Cell.
You either put them on each console or don't put them at all.
Halo... What did that innovate? It's a FPS, good but hardly "innovative".
How did Sudeki innovate anything? Genuine question.

I think Prince of Persia:SOT was quite innovative.
So was the EyeToy games, SingStar...

There's a lot of games this generation, in the thousands, it will be hard to pick a few...

 

[pc999]

Two more things

PS2- EyeToy
Xbox - Comands from microphone

 

[jarrod]

Wario Ware

 

[jarrod]

Rez was on PS2 too, so doesn't that count?
Viewtiful Joe is multiplatform too, doesn't that count?
So is Splinter Cell.
You either put them on each console or don't put them at all.

Nearly every game up there is on multiple platforms, including GTA3 under PS2. He's listing the first platform they were designed around, though even that's incorrect for some games (GTA3 started on PC/DC, Crazy Taxi/Monkey Ball/Smaba/TotD were Naomi games first, Ico started out as a PS1 game, Halo started on Mac, Animal Crossing on N64, Shenmue on Saturn, etc). It'd be better just to list games by makers rather than platforms.

 

[Evil_Cloud]

Otogi?

 

[Fodder]

Personally I think the best new idea this generation was Double Dash's co-op racing. Unless of course it's been done before ... in which case tell me tell me please so I have more awesome games to play.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Sudeki had an innovative combat system that mixed realtime and turn-based elements. Not everyone like it, but it was still innovative.

You can ignore platforms if you wish and merely talk about publishers, in which case Sega is still the clear leader in new concepts and innovation.

As far as ICO is concerned: You can innovate in presentation. It's not just gameplay that has to be innovative for a game to be innovative.

 

[Polarbear53]

Wasn't halo the first to really implement vehicles into a FPS, or at least have them be somthing meaningful? I didn't keep track of pc games in 2001 so i'm not really sure.

 

[Phil]

Seriously, where's EyeToy? Forget GTA3...

Not sure about innovative, but I quite like the Burnout games and the objective to drive as dangerous as possible to aquire boost. I also quite liked the new style ICO brought to the PS2... simple, yet very deep (and I still haven't completed it yet... <- at self...).

 

[jarrod]

Continued from previous thread...

So yes, I would say you are overly sensitive to someone else's opinion of Pikmin. Did you read the part where I said I BOUGHT IT and I LIKED IT?

The criticism was deserved, I was pushing for a deeper evaluation. Sorry about my tone though... I've been posting on TNL too much recently.

Start at the macro level concept then. Controlling little beings under your direction that you need to finish the level. Then look at the interaction you have with the environment and see that it still boils down to "controlling little beings to do your bidding". Mind you, the details of how you interact may be different (one digs, one lifts, etc.) so I'm just saying the concept is similiar. If anything I do give Pikmin props for polish and theme though.

Superficial parallels it is then I guess.

If you pull back far enough you can relate anything. Space Invaders and Halo are both essentially about shooting aliens, I guess the games are fundamentally related in concept? The similarites between Lemmings and Pikmin are superficial at best though, their game designs and mechanics are rather different.

Also, you're slightly off as Pikmin isn't really level based... though I suppose pulling back enough, you could make a related case there too... it could go "all objectives are really the same, you're doing something to achieve something".

 

[wazoo]

I think, drop the platform and keep it as a publisher list. It will avoid many problems.

Phantasy Star Online and Samba have to be on the list, but Typing of the Dead is not innovation, it is just a dead end gimmick.

MSR is quite innovative with its kudos system, Crazy taxi is not.

Where was the innovation in Kotor, I did not play it and fail to understand ??

Blinx : only well implemented innovation should be considered, no ?? POP Sands of Time is Blinx done well.

I fail to see the innovation in Monkey Ball. It is just MArble madness meets DK.

 

[Fodder]

Wasn't halo the first to really implement vehicles into a FPS, or at least have them be somthing meaningful?

Tribes 1 & 2, Battlezone 1 & 2, Codename Eagle, Red Faction, and there are probably a few more.

 

[jarrod]

Phantasy Star Online and Samba have to be on the list, but Typing of the Dead is not innovation, it is just a dead end gimmick.

I dunno... how is PSO fundamentally different from Diablo? Besides being pay to play?

Or how is Samba fundamentally different from any number of instrument based music games? That subgenre was well established earlier.

I fail to see the innovation in Monkey Ball. It is just MArble madness meets DK.

Monkey Target!

 

[jarrod]

As far as ICO is concerned: You can innovate in presentation. It's not just gameplay that has to be innovative for a game to be innovative.

Using that standard though, wouldn't The Wind Waker be even more innovative than Ico?

 

[Sonic]

How would Wind Waker be innovative if at all?

 

[jarrod]

How would Wind Waker be innovative if at all?

If presentation is the standard, TWW's artstyle and world design would qualify it. Same as the argument for Ico.

 

[see colon]

Personally I think the best new idea this generation was Double Dash's co-op racing. Unless of course it's been done before ... in which case tell me tell me please so I have more awesome games to play.

B.C. Racers on the segaCD has co-op racing. it was a mario cart clone, and featured mario kart-like graphics (snes original) but fullscreen with more sprites and usualy at a higher frame rate. the 2 play mode was co-op only, with one player driving and the other leaning and controlling combat (you could wack at people al la road rash). the game was made by core and featured chuck rock and chuck jr.

I dunno... how is PSO fundamentally different from Diablo? Besides being pay to play?

Or how is Samba fundamentally different from any number of instrument based music games? That subgenre was well established earlier.

PSO was the first (to my knowlage) pay-to-play online console game.

samba was one of the first music/intrument games that supported a specialized, basicly single use controller.

these things are obviously being compared in the vacume of the living room console space. comparing them to arcade games or pc games is a totaly differant pile of beans. jarrod said it...

If you pull back far enough you can relate anything.

any inovation in the console vacume can have it's glitter removed if you start comparing it to other devices.

the inovative amount of power an xbox draws is nothing compared to my toaster oven.

-edit-
just wanted to add... or ask... why no talk of gc<->gba connectivity? sure, most games used it for crap features, but i actualy thought splinter cell was pretty nifty. and play calling in madden is useful, even if 2005 no longer supports it.

 

[jvd]

eye toy ? i've said this before there was the uforce and that activator or whatever.

The uforce was a device that you would use your hands to move things. (no controler just the box that read the movements) This would then control your charactor , very fun with top gun back with the nes

The activator (think it was called this ) Is a huge ring that goes on the floor with nothing inbetween. It would record all your movements like if u jumped kicked your mortal combat charactor would jump kick in the game .

 

[one]

Sudeki had an innovative combat system that mixed realtime and turn-based elements. Not everyone like it, but it was still innovative.

Is it different from 'active time battle' which was in 16-bit Final Fantasy series?