Industry Leaders Panel Discussion

[Qroach]

I just watched a 1 hour 27 mintue round table discussion regarding the video game industry at gamespot. You'll need a subscription to view it. The conference had:

MS
Sony
Sega
EA

...and Nintendo declined to show.

Very interesting to hear what these guys had to say, and I must say that guy form EA had a pretty funny sense of humor. Althought he could appear a little arrogant at times...

They compared the movie industry to the game industry mostly, and talked about the changes in tastes people have had as they get older. All of these guys said the same thing. Before, the only games we could make looked like cartoons, and now we have the power to make games that appear more relaistic and still appeal to the older gamers. The appeal of characters and games like mario, has been replaced with games like GTA 3 & vice city. This part made sense to me since I've been saying the same thing for a long time. That people are getting older and thier tastes changed. I know that my tastes have also changed when I have Mario sunshine sitting here and I haven't started playing it yet. It's been two months... I can remember a day where that game would have sat there for more that two seconds without me playing it.

They also mentioned some interesting facts.

The average age of a PS2 owner is in thier early 20's
The average age of a Xbox owner is in thier mid to late 20's

...and then they followed up with the comment that nintendo would say there's 5 million new 6 year olds every year. I really wish Nintendo had a respresentitive there to to participate. Since there were a few shots at nintendo, and the shots at each other were pretty funny.

 

[Teasy]

Its actually pretty funny that anyone would think a game like GTA3 is for older tastes. Its an immature game, I liked it, because it was fun for a little while, but its not a mature game by any stretch of the imagination.

Also you say tastes have changed, I don't see how, there were always violent games and they always did well because they were "cool". The original GTA did well a long time ago. GTA3 just made the game look more real and hence the violence and general illegal adctivities looked more real.. which makes it even more cool, which means more sales.

GTA3 does well because its outrageous and the kids just love that (when I say kids I 16 and under). They never get tired of the simple gameplay like most adults do, because its just soooo bad and naughty to murder rape and steal.

How many of what you can really consider mature games have outsold SMS so far?.. a game that is well on its way to 3 million sold before Christmas even starts.

 

[Qroach]

Its actually pretty funny that you think a game like GTA3 is for "older tastes". Its an extremely immature game, I liked it, because it was fun for a little while, but its not a mature game by any stretch of the imagination.

Teasy, i knew you'd come in and start arguing or questioning everything. It's one thing to NOT agree, but to question almost everything you hear, well that's a different story. You always do this...

For one thing, I'm NOT the only person that thinks this. The guys in this panel are a LOT more savy when it comes to games than you or myself, and they are the ones that have said this! I'm agreeing with them since you'd have to be and idoit to argue. I'm exposed to people form all over the industry like this all the time, and I can assure you MANY people in the industry have the same opinion. infact I was just speaking with one of the cofounders of retro on friday, he's left retro about a year ago (the first to leave) and after talking with him for a few hours I can assure you he'd agree.

You can call GTA immature all you want, but if you compare it to SMS, which game seems more immature to you?

Also it's not about the game itself being or having mature content, but the OVERALL game itself APPEALING to MATURE gamers. That's what I'm talking about, and what you fil to understand

Take the 9 million copies of GTA3 sold on the PS2 with the average age of the PS2 fan being in the early 20's (it's come down a little) and you can see that this is clearly a game for more mature gamers. The average age of gamers in general has increased dramitically, and it's the reason the gaming market is STILL growing. ne wgamers come in and less gamers are leaving games behind as they get older.

Not only by it's content, but story and sophistication. I fyou want to refuse to accept that, then go ahead. however you are clearly wrong, and everyone in the industry seems to understand what is happening (well not every, but the majority of the indsutry)

Also you say tastes have changed, I don't see how, there were always violent games, they just happen to look more real now due to technological advancements.

How can you NOT see how. The evidence is clearly in front of your face. The fact GTA vice city sold almost a million copies it's first day (and that was just in north america I believe). It ISN"T just about "violent games", you really need to stop quiting this BS that mature games are just violent, becuase that's not the only thing that goes into makng a game appeal to older auidiences.

GTA3 does well because its outrageous and the kids just love it, they never get tired of the simple gameplay because its just soooo bad.

GTA does well for a nubmer of reasons. As I said before, the averrage age of a PS2 owner is in theri early 20's. You consider that a kid? Just how old are you teasy? ...because it's so bad? I hope you mean "bad" as in "good", becuase I think you'll find over 9 million people to disagree with.

How many of what you can really consider mature games have outsold SMS so far?.. a game that is well on its way to 3 million sold before Christmas even starts.

LOTS of games on PS2 have out sold mario sunshine. I'd be confidnet to place a bet that GTA vice city will catch and surpass SMS in sales, in a matter of two weeks... and that's BEFORE going into the holiday season.

Where the hell are you getting that SMS has sold close to 3 million so far? It's just reached over 1 million (world wide) last time I saw numbers from each territory. 3 million??? Please show something to back that up, because it's just NOT reality. Do you really think SMS has already sold to 75 percent of the gamecube installed base?

Omigod, these arguments are so typical coming from you, it's like you are just cutting and pasting the same text over and over again. Even when someone corrects you, you'll still repeat the same thing over and over. To be honest, as far as I'm concerned you don't understand the industry well enough to even look at it objectively. You may be a fan, perhaps even a big fan of video games, but you fail to see things that are clearly infront of you.

 

[Blade]

We've been playing Mature-rated games for almost 10 years now.. and they've sold well. I'd tend to agree with these developers, and yourself Quincy, that the future is definitely looking bleak for "kiddy" games in the console market. Even whole genres are starting to fall off of the radar for older gamers.. like platformers and puzzle games.

 

[-tkf-]

GTA3 does well because its outrageous and the kids just love that (when I say kids I 16 and under). They never get tired of the simple gameplay like most adults do, because its just soooo bad and naughty to murder rape and steal.

How many of what you can really consider mature games have outsold SMS so far?.. a game that is well on its way to 3 million sold before Christmas even starts.

It's easier selling lots of copies of a good game when there isn't anything else to choose from, SMS and HALO is the perfect example.

Selling 7 million copies of a PS2 game is more impressive and VICE will sell even more.

GTA3 and VICE are not supposed to be sold to anyone under 18 but rather those PS2 owners that are 20 and above. In the case with VICE the soundtrack should be proof that it isn't aimed at kids.

Actually it's a bit funny that you consider 16 year old gamers immature, reading your post reminds me that age has nothing to do with how mature you are.

 

[zurich]

Haha well when I went and pre-ordered UC and MA the other day at EB, I saw a mom and her ~10yo kid returning a defective Vice City for a new one.. so much for ERSB!

 

[Geeforcer]

Haha well when I went and pre-ordered UC and MA the other day at EB, I saw a mom and her ~10yo kid returning a defective Vice City for a new one.. so much for ERSB!

Chances are, you'll see that very same mom on some talkshow a couple of months from now complaining that violence in video games is getting out of hand, and she needs government help (read: censorship) to protect her kids.

 

[Teasy]

Teasy, i knew you'd come in and start arguing or questioning everything. It's one thing to NOT agree, but to question almost everything you hear, well that's a different story. You always do this...

I disagree with allot of what you say, because I disagree with you.. that's it.

For one thing, I'm NOT the only person that thinks this. The guys in this panel are a LOT more savy when it comes to games than you or myself, and they are the ones that have said this!

Well I must bow down to their opinion then because they must know what is mature and what isn't if there in the game industry...?

You can call GTA immature all you want, but if you compare it to SMS, which game seems more immature to you?

SMS is based more on actual gameplay then cheap and 'cool' shock value, but then it does have some silly childish stuff in it. I'm not going to sit here and rate how mature each of these games are against each other because its just pointless. The point is GTA3 is not a mature game.

Also it's not about the game itself being or having mature content, but the OVERALL game itself APPEALING to MATURE gamers. That's what I'm talking about, and what you fil to understand

So your saying its not a mature game but it somehow apeals to mature people... that makes no sense at all.

Not only by it's content, but story and sophistication. I fyou want to refuse to accept that, then go ahead. however you are clearly wrong, and everyone in the industry seems to understand what is happening (well not every, but the majority of the indsutry)

GTA3 is sophisticated? Have you ever played GTA3?

How can you NOT see how. The evidence is clearly in front of your face. The fact GTA vice city sold almost a million copies it's first day (and that was just in north america I believe).

They've built a game with allot of hype behind it, and its selling well, you really think that's down to anything but hype and name brand (with a fun game behind it of course)?

It ISN"T just about "violent games", you really need to stop quiting this BS that mature games are just violent, becuase that's not the only thing that goes into makng a game appeal to older auidiences.

Sorry you just lost me. Post the quote were I said a mature game is a violent one.

GTA does well for a nubmer of reasons. As I said before, the averrage age of a PS2 owner is in theri early 20's. You consider that a kid? Just how old are you teasy?

The average age of GameCube users is 20+.. so by the same logic you think SMS is a mature game? As for my age I'll 21 years and 8 months old

because it's so bad? I hope you mean "bad" as in "good", becuase I think you'll find over 9 million people to disagree with.

I meant the game is bad as in badass.

LOTS of games on PS2 have out sold mario sunshine. I'd be confidnet to place a bet that GTA vice city will catch and surpass SMS in sales, in a matter of two weeks... and that's BEFORE going into the holiday season.

I said how many games that you can really consider mature games have outsold SMS so far.

Where the hell are you getting that SMS has sold close to 3 million so far? It's just reached over 1 million (world wide) last time I saw numbers from each territory.

The game passed 1 million quite a while ago. I'll go and find all the sales numbers.

Do you really think SMS has already sold to 75 percent of the gamecube installed base?

You think GameCube has a world wide install base of only 4 million?? GameCube has over 2.5 million just in Japan, around 4 million in the U.S now and easily 1.5 million in Europe, likely more.

Omigod, these arguments are so typical coming from you, it's like you are just cutting and pasting the same text over and over again.

Maybe I wouldn't have to argue the same things if you didn't keep saying the same crap over and over again.

Even when someone corrects you, you'll still repeat the same thing over and over.

Oh right, and I suppose your the one who's 'corrected me? In other words anyone who argues with you has automatically been corrected, so any further argument is pointless. Arguing with you is like bashing my head off a brick wall, I only end up less intelligent each time I do it.

To be honest, as far as I'm concerned you don't understand the industry well enough to even look at it objectively.

I don't need to understand the industry to know that GTA3 is a immature game that is loved mostly by immature adults and kids.

You may be a fan, perhaps even a big fan of video games, but you fail to see things that are clearly infront of you.

Take a look in the mirror when you say that man.

 

[Teasy]

It's easier selling lots of copies of a good game when there isn't anything else to choose from, SMS and HALO is the perfect example.

Its also easier to sell lots of copies of a good game when you have 5+ times as many users to sell to.

Selling 7 million copies of a PS2 game is more impressive and VICE will sell even more.

Selling 7 million copies of a game to a potential userbase of 37 million is more impressive then selling 3 million copies of a gam to a potential userbase of around 7 million?.. I don't think so.

GTA3 and VICE are not supposed to be sold to anyone under 18 but rather those PS2 owners that are 20 and above

Oh yeah.... of course that's a strategy that's known to work isn't it Having a age rating on a game doesn't stop it selling to millions of people under that rated age. Infact it usually helps it sell to those people.. because the age rating makes the game even cooler.

Actually it's a bit funny that you consider 16 year old gamers immature, reading your post reminds me that age has nothing to do with how mature you are.

I consider 16 year olds in general to be immature, not all of them but most of them. Sorry if I offended you if your 16 or something, but then again I didn't think I was immature when I was 16 either, I realised that once I matured. As for your dig at me, what's immature about anything I said in my ealier post?

 

[Geeforcer]

Oh wow, some guys in a panel think GTA3 is an adult game. Well I must bow down to their opinion then because they must know what is mature and what isn't if there in the game industry...?

I don't know, but I'd take the word of a guys who works in the industry and has market research to back it up over the word of some guy who spends hours doing line-by-line replies on BBS and has nothing but his own factless opinion.

 

[zidane1strife]

GTA3 does well because its outrageous and the kids just love that (when I say kids I 16 and under).

I agree, i mean i know many 7th-6th graders, and i doubt there's one of em left without it... One of my (7th grade) friends asked me to buy him one(soon after gta release...)... and i accidentally brought my mom along for the ride(bast@rd clerk say'd the game was about to be banned and people got injected with ecstacy WTF?!? and that u got to see s#x?!?... Mom went haywire after that...) ... needless to say couldn't buy him the game... but he later bought it himself at another EB...

Not to mention the first day vice got released, i went to get my copy and there were many kids in like(some with parents... some without?!?)

The fact GTA vice city sold almost a million copies it's first day (and that was just in north america I believe).

I heard that was just from a single retail chain either EB or Toys r' us, don't remember...

Anyways Vice will outsell ALL this holiday season

 

[zurich]

QRoach could take Teasy in a fight any day, he's Canadian and can jersey with the best of them!@!! (I'm assuming no one outside of Canada has seen those Molson ads? )

 

[Teasy]

I don't know, but I'd take the word of a guys who works in the industry and has market research to back it up over the word of some guy who spends hours doing line-by-line replies on BBS and has nothing but his own factless opinion.

Well I'd take my opinion over someone who posts on message boards using the brand name of a graphics card as his name

You think Sony would say at this meeting "Our research suggests that GTA3 is actually mostly bought buy kids" of course not, for many many reasons. Also most market research would suggest the game is bought by adults simply because of its user rating, after all anyone who buys the game either in store or online has to be an adult right?.. or they couldn't buy it could they?

QRoach could take Teasy in a fight any day, he's Canadian and can jersey with the best of them

LOL.. what's Jersey'ing supposed to be then?

As for fighting I'd be fairly confident there .. I'm a Geordie and we don't shy away from that sort of thing

 

[Geeforcer]

You think GameCube has a world wide install base of only 4 million?? GameCube has over 2.5 million just in Japan, around 4 million in the U.S now and easily 1.5 million in Europe, likely more.

Selling 7 million copies of a game to a potential userbase of 37 million is more impressive then selling 3 million copies of a gam to a potential userbase of around 7 million?.. I don't think so.

Ah, Teasy, Teasy. I know that you have no hard numbers to base your arguments on, but at least try to keep your guesstimates consistent.

"Over 2.5" + "around 4" + "1.5, likely more" = 8 or more million, right?

So tell me, why in one post where you are arguing how great GCs installment base is its 8 or more million, but 5 seconds later, when you are arguing about how SMS selltrough ratio is better then that of GTA, its suddenly down to "around 7 million"?

 

[Teasy]

Ah Geeforcer, Geeforcer .. try reading more carefully next time. I gave rough estimates for each region, hence the "around" and "likely more then" comments. I did not give an wxact all round number of 8 million. It could be anywhere between 7 and 8 million so I once again said "around" 7. You think saying:

Selling 7 million copies of a game to a potential userbase of 37 million is more impressive then selling 3 million copies of a gam to a potential userbase of around 8 million?.. I don't think so.

Instead would make any difference to the point of the comment anyway?

 

[Geeforcer]

Well I'd take my opinion over someone who posts on message boards using the brand name of a graphics card as his name

Talk about irrelevant... I got the name a long time ago, and have been using ever since, so the people from other forums could recognize it - despite the irrelevant snipes like the one above. I don't change my name whenever I think it suits me. You should try that approach with numbers sometimes.

 

[Geeforcer]

Ah Geeforcer, Geeforcer .. try reading more carefully next time. I gave rough estimates for each region, hence the "around" and "likely more then" comments.

Point taken: I will just disregard any numbers you post in the future. After all, these estimates are so rough, then can change by 15% from post to post.

 

[Teasy]

Talk about irrelevant... I got the name a long time ago, and have been using ever since, so the people from other forums could recognize it - despite the irrelevant snipes like the one above.

Talk about hypocritical You were the one who started pointless irrelivant sniping, I just sent some of your own rubbish right back at you.

 

[Teasy]

Point taken: I will just disregard any numbers you post in the future. After all, these estimates are so rough, then can change by 15% from post to post.

You mean point well and truely missed don't you?

Why not try only taking numbers as exact when I actually say there exact and taking them as rough estimates when I say there rough estimates. Which is clearly what I mean when I say stuff like "GameCube has sold around 4 million" instead of just saying "GameCube has sold 4 million".

 

[Geeforcer]

Instead would make any difference to the point of the comment anyway?

Well, lets see:

Asuming that all the numbers you provide have a ~15% margin of error.

(7+ 7*.15)/(37-37*.15) = ~0.26
(3 - 3*.15)/(8+8*.15) = ~0.27

So yes, that would make a difference to the point.