Industry Leaders Panel Discussion

[Qroach]

I disagree with allot of what you say, because I disagree with you.. that's it.

Oh really, well you're not only disagreeing with me, but industry leaders as well. Industry leaders who know FAR more than you'll EVER know regarding video games.

Well I must bow down to their opinion then because they must know what is mature and what isn't if there in the game industry...?

Consideruing that you'd post nonesense like this, it's just proves how ignorant you are. You're proclaiming to understand the industry better than people IN the industry. You say that and NOBODY is going to listen to you IMO.

SMS is based more on actual gameplay then cheap and 'cool' shock value, but then it does have some silly childish stuff in it. I'm not going to sit here and rate how mature each of these games are against each other because its just pointless. The point is GTA3 is not a mature game.

Yes, you won't sit there an rate them against each other because you see how wrong you are. I perfectly understand... Too bad SMS doesn't APPEAL to older gamers as much as it does younger gamers. Otherwise it
might actually sell as fast as the GTA series.

Also it's not about the game itself being or having mature content, but the OVERALL game itself APPEALING to MATURE gamers. That's what I'm talking about, and what you fil to understand

So your saying its not a mature game but it somehow apeals to mature people... that makes no sense at all.

I'm saying it's not being or having mature content that makes it appeal to older gamers. It's a number of factors added together to make the entire package that appeals to older gamers. You keep lumping this game inot the mature catagory only BECAUSE it has violence in it. that isn't the sole reason it appeals to older gamers.

GTA3 is sophisticated? Have you ever played GTA3?

You've displayed your level of understanding here clear enough. perhaps when you're a little older (or more likely wiser) you'll understand why this appeals to a differnt crowd than SMS.

They've built a game with allot of hype behind it, and its selling well, you really think that's down to anything but hype and name brand (with a fun game behind it of course)?

Hype? You gotta be kidding! I don't knwo a single person or reviewer that hasn't said good things about the new version. There's a reason that it sold 1 million copies the first day, and I don't thing it has much to do about hype.

Sorry you just lost me. Post the quote were I said a mature game is a violent one.

You've said that in the past and you imply it now. You imply that mature games are the games that bare a mature label. We even had the rating lable argument before. You argued in the past that games like resident evil and Eternal darkness are mature rated games that will appeal to older gamers. What I've been saying is that the label on the box means nothing. The overall game "as a package" is what makes it appeal to older gamers. GTA games contains everything it needs to appeal to this crowd. A mature rated game as shown by the sales in res evil and eternal darkness, do not always sell as well, or move as many consles as other titles.

The average age of GameCube users is 20+.. so by the same logic you think SMS is a mature game? As for my age I'll 21 years and 8 months old

Oh, it is? just where are you getting that from? An internet poll? A online poll that will always be skewed to the older people surfing? The average age of a GC user is below that of XBox and PS2, i can assure you that much. Where did you see this information exactly?

I meant the game is bad as in badass.

Ok, my bad.

I said how many games that you can really consider mature games have outsold SMS so far.

...and I said the "mature" rating has nothing to do with the fact a game appeals to older/mature players. I also said above LOT's of games have outsold mario so far

The game passed 1 million quite a while ago. I'll go and find all the sales numbers.

It DID pass one million, but it wasn't "quite a while ago". Ok, please find these sales numbers that show the game approaching 3 million units in sales worldwide.

You think GameCube has a world wide install base of only 4 million?? GameCube has over 2.5 million just in Japan, around 4 million in the U.S now and easily 1.5 million in Europe, likely more.

WHERE HAVE YOU SEEN THESE NUMBERS?

Gamecube has NOT reached 2.5 million in japan, or 4 million in the US or 1.5 million in europe! Hey i can admit if I'm wrong, just back these numbers up with something.

Either way, you're TOTALLY wrong about SMS reaching close to 3 million in sales right now.

Maybe I wouldn't have to argue the same things if you didn't keep saying the same crap over and over again.

You don't understand the game industry. Simply put... we're not aruging about hardware, we're not arguing abuot monthly sales here. we're arguing about the industry as a whole. an industry you clearly DON'T understand. if you think what is ACTUALLY going on in the industry is crap, then I suggest you don't bother reponding to these posts.

Oh right, and I suppose your the one who's 'corrected me?

Did I say me? No, I said "someone"! You do this all the time to me and other people around here. I've seen arguments like this over and over. You argue with just about everyone except one or two people in this forum.

I don't need to understand the industry to know that GTA3 is a immature game that is loved mostly by immature adults and kids.

I do think that you are too immature to understand why it appeals to older gamers.

Take a look in the mirror when you say that man.

I'm just speaking the truth. you don't look at this industry clearly enough...

 

[Geeforcer]

Talk about hypocritical You were the one who started pointless irrelivant sniping, I just sent some of your own rubbish right back at you.

First you question credibility of the panel based purely your opinion (my pont still stnads: you have no hard facts to back it up), then you attack my credibility based on my name. You keep spewing rubbish troughout the thread, don't be surprised if some of it falls right back and hits you in the face.

 

[Qroach]

LOL zurich! I love the molson ads! Teasy from the UK though... I think those ads were aimed at Americans...

 

[Teasy]

Geeforcer

Of course it makes no difference either way. Wether I'd said around 7 million or around 8 million it'd be the same end result. Take the worst case, 8 million userbase for GameCube.

7 million copies sold to a potential 37 million userbase mean 19% of the userbase own the game.

3 million copies sold to a potential 8 million userbase means 37% of the userbase owns the game.

End result, selling 3 million copies of a game to an 8 million userbase is more of an acheivement then selling 7 million copies of a game to a 37 million userbase.

First you question credibility of the panel based purely your opinion (my pont still stnads: you have no hard facts to back it up)

Facts?.. what facts do the panel have that GTA3 is a mature game? What is and isn't mature is based on opinion not fact.

then you attack my credibility based on my name. You keep spewing rubbish troughout the thread, don't be surprised if some of it falls right back and hits you in the face.

LOL, revisionist thread history.. nice

I only attacked your credibility, based on your name, to show you how pathetic it was to attack my credibility by saying I'm "some guy who spends hours doing line-by-line replies on BBS".

Again your the one who started the irrelivant sniping, so how in the world can you now say that your just retaliating?.. wake up man.[/quote]

 

[Geeforcer]

You mean point well and truely missed don't you?

Why not try only taking numbers as exact when I actually say there exact and taking them as rough estimates when I say there rough estimates. Which is clearly what I mean when I say stuff like "GameCube has sold around 4 million" instead of just saying "GameCube has sold 4 million".

You still did not explain how did you estimates change from around 8 to around 7 million when it suited your point. So which of your estimates is wrong, the first one or the second one? Surely you are not going to argue that 8 or more million is the same as "around 7".

The point is clear, I am afraid. The numbers you post a irrelevant, made-up garbage and you can't even be trusted to keep them consistent from post to post.

 

[Geeforcer]

Geeforcer

Of course it makes no difference either way. Wether I'd said around 7 million or around 8 million it'd be the same end result. Take the worst case, 8 million userbase for GameCube.

7 million copies sold to a potential 37 million userbase mean 19% of the userbase own the game.

3 million copies sold to a potential 8 million userbase means 37% of the userbase owns the game.

End result, selling 3 million copies of a game to an 8 million userbase is more of an acheivement then selling 7 million copies of a game to a 37 million userbase.

Why should I presume any of these numbers to be accurate? Would you mind posting a source to where you got all of them?

 

[-tkf-]

TEASY:

Newsflash, Vice will most likely sell around 12-3 Million copies, GTA3 sold 7 Million when the PS2 wasn't at 40 million shipped (it's over a year old).

Given that the game isn't really targetted at the younger audience (80's is not that cool you know the audience can't be considered to be as big as for example SMS. And their are several AAA titles battling for the 40M+ gamers on the PS2.

I'm 30+ (the target group) and Vice is one of the best games i have seen and played since i started with PONG on an Black and White TV at a friends birthday some time ago (ages ago).

[/quote]

 

[Teasy]

You still did not explain how did you estimates change from around 8 to around 7 million when it suited your point. So which of your estimates is wrong, the first one or the second one? Surely you are not going to argue that 8 or more million is the same as "around 7".

Which estimate is wrong? There's only one estimate, I said:

Over 2.5 million in Japan
Around 4 million in the U.S
1.5 million in Japan

The total could be anywhere from 7.5-8 million. As I said either 7 or 8 million makes no difference to my point so frankly I don't care which one you take.

The point is clear, I am afraid. The numbers you post a irrelevant, made-up garbage and you can't even be trusted to keep them consistent from post to post.

My how easily you make a mountain out of a mole hill in order to give yourself some semblence of an argument.

Why should I presume any of these numbers to be accurate? Would you mind posting a source to where you got all of them?

Heh, so now that I show you that your pointless nitpicking over 7 or 8 million is complete nonesense, as it makes no real difference to the end result anyway, you start arguing over something else.. typical.

All the numbers appart from the Euro numbers are on this board. Last Japanese numbers we saw had GameCube at 2.5 million or above, the last NPD U.S numbers we saw had GameCube at 3.5 million after doing the usual +35% calc for NPD's inaccuracies (since then we've seen another month of sales around 300,000 if I remember correctly). The Euro numbers are easily the biggest guestimate, GameCube was at 500,000 at launch, and its now 7 months after launch, at least 1.5 million seems fair doesn't it?

-tkf-

Newsflash, Vice will most likely sell around 12-3 Million copies, GTA3 sold 7 Million when the PS2 wasn't at 40 million shipped (it's over a year old).

I didn't even mention how many they both might sell total (you think SMS won't sell more then 3 million?). You said that a game selling 3 million on GameCube is not as impressive as a game selling 7 million on PS2.. I just disagreed with that for the reasons I already mentioned. We can look at which game between GTA3:VC and SMS has sold more impressively a few years from now.

 

[Qroach]

(since then we've seen another month of sales around 300,000 if I remember correctly).

You actually think GC is selling 300,000 units a month in North america?


This stuff about SMS, problem is, that it has NOT reached 3 million yet on Gamecube. You're numbers are WAY off and getting farther and father off each time you start and argument. bakc these number UP with somehting please.

You say these numbers came from these forums? well if that's the case it shouldn't be as hard to find them or find out ioif people were just pulling numbers out of thin air (much like I think you are doing right now.)

 

[marconelly!]

I would really like to see some more of those industry leaders' comments, instead of this bitchathon...

 

[Logan Leonhart]

I would really like to see some more of those industry leaders' comments, instead of this bitchathon...

I second that...anybody know what was the panel discussion about (details)?

 

[Qroach]

No kidding.. sorry about that man, somehow every thread ends up like this...

Anyway... If i watch it again, I'll take some notes next time. It was a really good conference, but a little long to remember everything. The discussion was mostly about comparrisons between holywood and the game industry, and how the game industry is much better. The EA co founder mentioned that lot's of holloywood people are coming over to video games in the 10's-100's at EA right now.

 

[wazoo]

I do not support the 3M SMS sales (at least I have no proofs), but Quincy you are wrong.

What we know

600k+ on famitsu charts (80%~ of real sales, Nintendo estimates are at 800k)

600k (350+250k~) by end of september in the US on NPD (60% according some guy on this board)

175k in 3 days in europe (launched on 4october)

so, without correction, we are at 1.4M~ by beginning of october.

With correction (if this is true), we are at 2M.

not bad for a July-October period.

 

[Nexiss]

Qroach:

Oh really, well you're not only disagreeing with me, but industry leaders as well. Industry leaders who know FAR more than you'll EVER know regarding video games.

So I suppose that we should just bow down to the opinion of anyone who we deem as knowing more than us? I'm sorry but I have a mind of my own and can formulate my own opinions.
What I think Teasy was trying to say is that in his opinion something like GTA3 is not a mature game (and I, for one, agree). Now whether or not the game appeals more/sells better to older gamers or 'immature' teens is completely debatable, but we are still all entitled to our opinions.


Anywho, speaking of comparisons between Hollywood and the Video Game industry, am I the only that thinks the gaming industry could stand to learn some from Hollywood about how to advertise and promote a product?

 

[zurich]

Teasy,

Jerseying is when a hockey player throws down his stick, grabs the other player's jersey and pulls it over his head (so he can't see), then beats the shit out of him.

One (of the many) 'I am Canadian' Molson TV ads that air in Canada have a guy standing at the photocopier, while a coworker says "Sooo... you're Canadian, EH?" *chuckles* "Got any.... MOOSE in the family?" *chuckles more* "How about 'dem igloos??" *laughs out loud* At this point the Canadian guy drops his coffee and starts 'Jerseying' his co-worker.

There's a zillion more ads like this on TV, Molson RULES (though their beer is ass, Labatts thx)

 

[sergio_r]

Ive been a lurker around here for a couple of weeks, but I just had to register just to say that I completly agree with Teasy. GTA3 is anything but mature.

 

[Qroach]

Nexus and sergio,

Teasy has a habit of ignoring the facts behind somehting like this IMO. When a representitive of sony say in a conference that he average age of a PS2 owner is in their early 20's, and ALL of the people in that discussion honestly believe that a game like this appeals to older gamers much mroe than a Mario title, I agree withthem because it's what's actually happening. I've said it a million times, people get older and their tastes change. now that's my opinion, and I think the amout of sales of games like GTA outright prove this. No not everyone tha tbuys the game is mature, that never happens. but I'd be willing to bet the majoiryt of people that do by it are somewhat older that their early or mid teens.

GTA being mature or whatever you want to call it isn't the point. I've said numerous times throughout this thread that the "mature label" or rating as the game has, doesn't mean anything. It doesn't guarentee actual mature gamers to be interested in the title. it's the entire package of the game that appeals to the more mature gamers. Not the label/rating on the box.

Now saying it's immature, that's nonsense IMO and nothing but a personal opinion. One could say that ALL games are immature. Doesn't really matter much to this discussion.

 

[sergio_r]

Qroach, I guess I cant be subjective here, becuase my personal opinions keep getting in the way
to me, gta3 seems to the kind of game teens go for, and people in there early twenties. It just doesnt appeal to me. Violence is a real cheap way to make a game 'exciting' and 'inyour face'.
Mario sunshine, well, the fact that its colourful and sweet, doesnt really bother me. I look past that, and see the gameplay and awsome control. I get more pleasure from doing a few simple jumps with mario, than driving around sniping a hooker in the legs or running people over. Sure, its a nice gimmick, but thats all. Was GTA even released in japan? Would they even buy it? Whats my point? I dunno. Its all a matter of taste (or lack of ) at the end of the day.

 

[-tkf-]

Violence is a real cheap way to make a game 'exciting' and 'inyour face'

I look past that and enjoy GTA just as much as i enjoy SMS on my cube colorfull or not

 

[sergio_r]

I look past that and enjoy GTA just as much as i enjoy SMS on my cube colorfull or not [/quote]

yeah, thats valid. I guess the moral is, different strokes for different folks.