IF: Blu Ray wins format war THEN: Sony laughs all the way to the bank?

[CEO]

so you guys tell me why is that now BD lost its Porn deal everyone is acting like yeah well you dont wanna see the details anyway fuck hd-dvd ... desperate try ...[some other random bullshit]

oh and yeah sony laughs all the way to the bank when, and i SRSLY MEAN IT, IF BD is going to win the hilariously stupid format war which obviously would be not that easy as sony and others made me believe.

Thanks for your Attention.

 

[Undercover Cop]

Even if Blu Ray wins, gaming could still suffer. The PSP is selling well (forget what the Nintards think). However, its gaming software salesare in the toilet.

 

[one]

Will Hollywood react to this?

First pirated HD DVD movie hits BitTorrent
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070115-8622.html

 

[Mythos]

AFAIK only Vivid had the size/influence to get a BRD replicator from "bluray" no one else has gotten one. Vivvid may be the largest "provider" but they aret the only so the rest of the industry is "ass out" so to speak...

Again on the FUD wagon...how about these apples.....

Blu-ray Refutes Claims of Porn Ban; Vivid Plans First High-Def Release

The Blu-ray Disc Association is speaking out against charges that the org is shunning adult video distributors from releasing content on Blu-ray.

Without responding directly to Digital Playground's claims, Marty Gordon, vicechair of the Blu-ray Disc Association US Promotions Committee emphasized in a statement to Ars Technica that the Sony-backed organization is committed to working with "all" content providers.

"The BDA welcomes the participation of all companies interested in using and supporting the format, particularly those from the content industry," said the BDA's Gordon. "We look forward to working with any content providers interested in providing their audience with [the] best possible high definition home entertainment experience."

Source: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...rn_Ban_Vivid_Plans_First_High-Def_Release/437

 

[Rangers]

Will Hollywood react to this?

First pirated HD DVD movie hits BitTorrent
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070115-8622.html

So I guess we're expected to believe pirates wont pirate Blu-Ray, no doubt.

Sigh. More FUD.

 

[one]

So I guess we're expected to believe pirates wont pirate Blu-Ray, no doubt.

Sigh. More FUD.

Can you enlighten me on why no Blu-ray has been cracked so far?

 

[Rangers]

Can you enlighten me on why no Blu-ray has been cracked so far?

Sometimes it is said that all hardware/software gets cracked eventually.

But I suppose, not in this case.

Anyway, the real reason is probably that nobody has tried.

 

[mrcorbo]

Can you enlighten me on why no Blu-ray has been cracked so far?

Because a BR PC drive costs quite a bit more than the $200 or less to get the 360 add-on for use with a PC. It's very likely only a matter of time now that the methodology has been worked out. TBH I'm stunned how easy it actually was once someone thought about the problem in the right way. Paraphrasing the cracker, prior to trying his idea he thought, "It couldn't actually be this simple, could it?".

The future of PC software players depends on the developers ability to patch this hole. In a way, it is better for the industry that an exploit this trivial was found so early, since it will impact so relative few titles. If this had been accomplished later in the lifetime of the 2 formats, many more titles would have been compromised.

 

[DeathKnight]

Again on the FUD wagon...how about these apples.....

Blu-ray Refutes Claims of Porn Ban; Vivid Plans First High-Def Release

Screams damage control. I'll believe it when I see more than just Vivid releasing a porno on Blu-Ray, ie. other porn studios not running into roadblocks when seeking willing replicators, and representatives from these studios not feeling the need to release public statements saying they're 'forced' to go HD-DVD only because Blu-Ray doesn't want to have anything to do with them. Unless some of these people from the porn studios who have recently decided to go HD-DVD only are totally off their rockers and/or biased to the bone then I fail to see how the claims being made by them and others in the same boat are unfounded.

I know some people loathe the statement "where there's smoke there's fire", but in this instance it's very much likely the case. All these mass "defections" (if you want to call them that) by porn studios to HD-DVD only who were planning on releasing on both formats originally aren't going to be triggered just by comments from the head of a porn studio (ie. Joone).

 

[inefficient]

Screams damage control...

The orignal story was:
"1080p Porn? Blu-ray Reportedly Says 'No Thanks'"

The follow up was:
"Blu-ray Refutes Claims of Porn Ban"

There was misinformation out there, and they corrected it with a press release. If that is what you call damage control, then it's the good kind of damage control.

 

[London Geezer]

Can you enlighten me on why no Blu-ray has been cracked so far?

Uhm cause you can't find a Bluray drive for $129 to play around with? Like it happened with the 360 HDDVD drive, which just works on PCs, no questions asked.

 

[Zaphod]

The future of PC software players depends on the developers ability to patch this hole.

I don't think this is an avalanche they'll be able to stop, even if it is only a single (I don't know, sounds like it’s not) software player that is currently compromised (i.e. they know where to look for the keys). Even if they revoke that player, they might essentially have to revoke the keys of all compromised media as well (essentially all released HD-DVDs to date) and this is obviously not an option at this point. A patched player will obviously have to handle the key of compromised media at some point, and since these keys are now known, I believe, finding the method of the next player, and the next, and the next ... will only be a matter of time. Follow the white rabbit.

In a way, it is better for the industry that an exploit this trivial was found so early, since it will impact so relative few titles. If this had been accomplished later in the lifetime of the 2 formats, many more titles would have been compromised.

Ironically, I tend to think that - if HD-DVD had better studio support - being broken could actually have helped them gain marketshare. Now, on the other hand, it's more likely to deter existing BR-studios from going neutral.

 

[avaya]

AFAIK Blu-Ray replicators are all currently heavily tied with their current release schedule and migration to BD-50 dominant lines (whcih still have relatively weak yields).

It is no surprise that any majpr replictor with ties to Sony, Panasonic or Disney will refuse to handle pornographic content. I wonder what people were expecting? These corporations do not want to destroy their image by such an association. (What about UMD's....I'm not sure here).

It is up to the adult film studios to find replicators willing to cater for their demands. Currently it seems most Blu-Ray facilities are tied up. It's quite amusing to hear the "entire adult industry has ditched Blu-Ray" argument when it is plainly false.

 

[mrcorbo]

I don't think this is an avalanche they'll be able to stop, even if it is only a single (I don't know, sounds like it’s not) software player that is currently compromised (i.e. they know where to look for the keys). Even if they revoke that player, they might essentially have to revoke the keys of all compromised media as well (essentially all released HD-DVDs to date) and this is obviously not an option at this point. A patched player will obviously have to handle the key of compromised media at some point, and since these keys are now known, I believe, finding the method of the next player, and the next, and the next ... will only be a matter of time. Follow the white rabbit.

AFAIK, it is both of the currently available software players that have been compromised in the exact same way. I personally can think of a way already to remove this vulnerability, and I am not a programmer or a security expert by any stretch. So the professionals who are trained and paid to do it should be able to figure out something equal or better. Which itself may very well be cracked, and so on..and so on....

The thing is the more vulnerabilities that can be found early, the more secure the platform becomes. The key difference between AACS and CSS is the key revocation system. This is what will always limit the impact of a compomised player or players and why this race to crack these formats ASAP actually works in favor of the content providers.

Ironically, I tend to think that - if HD-DVD had better studio support - being broken could actually have helped them gain marketshare. Now, on the other hand, it's more likely to deter existing BR-studios from going neutral.

I think this only hold true if AACS is determined long-term to be insufficient to secure the content. As of now, it isn't AACS that is the problem, it is the design of the AACS decrypter module in a couple of PC software packages that created the vulnerability. I expect that until the vulnerability is patched to the satisfaction of the content owners, that these players will not be playing any new content.

Might have to actually hook that 360 add-on to a 360 to use it

 

[Gubbi]

The thing is the more vulnerabilities that can be found early, the more secure the platform becomes. The key difference between AACS and CSS is the key revocation system. This is what will always limit the impact of a compomised player or players and why this race to crack these formats ASAP actually works in favor of the content providers.

I can't see how a class action law suit from all the consumers that didn't do anything wrong and suddenly have a player (be it software or hardware) that will no longer play new content, benefit content providers in any way.

Revoking keys just won't happen. At least not in my end of the world where we still have decent consumer protection laws.

Dankenexperiment: In two years time someone with access to a microelectronics lab and a batch of the right acids (like .... a student) strip the top layers of the right IC from a PS3 and reads it's key out. Can you imagine anyone who dare to revoke Sony's PS3 key?

Cheers

 

[DemoCoder]

I can't see how a class action law suit from all the consumers that didn't do anything wrong and suddenly have a player (be it software or hardware) that will no longer play new content, benefit content providers in any way.

The whole point of broadcast encryption schemes is that you can revoke individual players.

AACS can revoke arbitrary groups of keys, down to individual players. It is most likely that they will revoke software players and require consumers to update their CyberDVD/WinDVD/Vista to a new version with a new key to play the new content. For standalone players, they can revoke individual players if they desire, forcing individuals who are ripping to continually buy new players to continue pirating.

For professional pirates, if they find a particular model being using, they'll probably revoke the model's firmware revision. Most of the BR players are built to take firmware updates. It's been years since DirectTV switched to broadcast encryption and temper resistant P4 cards, and satellite piracy has practically died.

Revoking keys just won't happen. At least not in my end of the world where we still have decent consumer protection laws.

I bet they will. If they need to revoke a whole player model because it's fatally flawed, they'll just be liable to offer you an upgrade to fix it. Remember, it's the company that manufacturered the player that is responsible, because they engineered a player with significant flaws vis-a-vis AACS specifications.

Dankenexperiment: In two years time someone with access to a microelectronics lab and a batch of the right acids (like .... a student) strip the top layers of the right IC from a PS3 and reads it's key out. Can you imagine anyone who dare to revoke Sony's PS3 key?

Does the PS3 have a single key? Even the X-Box 1 didn't, which is why there is ample trade in EEPROM keys as XBox Live blacklists hacked Xboxes.

Using a single AACS key for all PS3 units would violate AACS recommendations.

 

[one]

Is the key for the PS3 BD player stored in an IC? If it's entirely in software, they might put it in its firmware.

 

[Zaphod]

It is most likely that they will revoke software players and require consumers to update their CyberDVD/WinDVD/Vista to a new version with a new key to play the new content.

But in this exploit it's not the player key that is compromised, rather their handling of the content's keys. So, say they patch the software players to handle the authentication process differently (keys no longer at the memory addresses where they used to be), at some point the patched player will have to use the content key to authenticate (the already compromised) content. Now, wouldn’t this already known key act as a pretty big signpost for someone looking to compromise the patched player just the same as the previous one?

 

[SPM]

Dankenexperiment: In two years time someone with access to a microelectronics lab and a batch of the right acids (like .... a student) strip the top layers of the right IC from a PS3 and reads it's key out. Can you imagine anyone who dare to revoke Sony's PS3 key?

Cheers

Actually it may be possible to read data in ICs with Xrays, IR lasers, and EM radiation.
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/SISW02.pdf

 

[mrcorbo]

But in this exploit it's not the player key that is compromised, rather their handling of the content's keys. So, say they patch the software players to handle the authentication process differently (keys no longer at the memory addresses where they used to be), at some point the patched player will have to use the content key to authenticate (the already compromised) content. Now, wouldn’t this already known key act as a pretty big signpost for someone looking to compromise the patched player just the same as the previous one?

Unless, the key is stored in a random location in memory each time....

And if they really wanted to get crazy, randomly and out of order embed individual bytes of the key in a much larger value and change the decryption function to re-assemble the key value as a function of the decryption process in a way that never places the actual value in memory.

That's 2 ways I can think of to defeat the current method of aquiring keys.