I don't understand why ps4 is louder with higher frame rate

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by orangpelupa, Mar 5, 2016.

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  1. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    I wonder, how loud ps4 will be when running at 120 fps
     
  2. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    Why?

    PS4 running 30 fps games or even lower due to performance problem = quiete

    PS4 running 60 fps games = jet engine blaring

    Isn't the overall power will still be the same? How can something running at x mhz at x volt, suddenly become hitter when running higher frame rate games?
     
  3. lanek

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    I can imagine that it is exactly the same thing as a graphic, PC system gpu with V-sync enabled ( or frame limiter ) .. Lower usage on cores and gpu's, so less TDP, less noise.

    They put a fps limiter.
     
  4. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    But when it's playing 20 fps games, struggling to reach 30... It's quiete
     
  5. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    Basically I think I will try.
    All our ICs a have a base voltage of 0 to indicate 0 and some voltage to indicate 1. When you have no load only the timer is running up and down. The cores all idle at 0. But when you have data coming through you are getting a lot of transistors flipping between 1 and 0. Cores are flipping between 1 and 0 all the time. So voltage starts to increase and temperatures rise as a result of the constant flipping and that a certain voltage must be reached to hit a "1".

    Basically it comes down the load, load on the ICs and load on the power supply to ensure that each transistor can reach its proper amount or else there are brownouts and therefore crashing.

    So it makes sense for it to spoil up and sound like a jet engine. The system is working twice as hard across he board.
     
  6. lanek

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    The console never run every time at 20fps,,,, in 20 sec, you have some at 45, some at 75 peak and sadly some at 22fps... as they need to choose a max frame per second speed, for have a sync with the TV display, they choose artificially a limit close to the average.. not close to the max peak fps. for limit the variation of frametimes and smooth the displaying of the frames.

    This will decrease automatically the usage of the system. Exactly like the frame limiter on catalyst driver... You have a prediction on the gpu side, who will calculate the TDP, the boost etc. and so control the fan noise.

    In fact, both system work the same way on this sense.. Just it is enabled by default on the consoles.
     
    #6 lanek, Mar 5, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
  7. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    That's what I don't understand. How can it works twice as hard as 30 fps games?

    It's still running the same frequency, same voltage.

    Gpu and cpu usage also should be staying at near 100 percent for 30 or 60 fps. Otherwise, the developer have wasted computing power (like lots of pc games with super low cpu usage)

    Edit:
    Ass Creed unity before patch is an example where the game never touch 30 fps all the time. And it's quiete.
     
  8. DieH@rd

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    Same as with current games. It will render simpler stuff.
     
  9. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
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    Maybe I imagined it but I always hear the PS4 a lot more when running 60fps games, even though they're clearly simpler compared to 30fps ones.
     
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  10. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
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    CPU stalls the GPU ?
     
  11. Karamazov

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    mine isn't louder whatever the game i play, but it used to be a lot louder and hotter when it was inside the tv desk, not enough air to breathe.
     
  12. eastmen

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  13. pcchen

    pcchen Moderator
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    I'm not familiar with PS4's system design, but it's not unreasonable to assume that it has dynamic frequency and voltage based on current workloads.

    And even if an application is perfectly optimized, it shouldn't be using 100% of CPU and GPU all the time, since sometimes it's just not doing something that demanding. For example, if a game is playing a video, it shouldn't be using too much CPU or GPU. Also, sometimes the scene can be simple (e.g. if you are looking straight up at the sky).

    For less perfectly optimized applications (that means all applications), it can sometimes be GPU limited or CPU limited, and that's why sometimes you see a game struggling to run at 30fps but the machine doesn't seem to be loud, as the CPU (or GPU, depends on the situation) could be sitting idle.
     
  14. Globalisateur

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    I have seen some 30fps capped games making my PS4 very noisy in very specific scenes, like FC4 in some areas (and notably those areas can have dips under 30fps proving the system is pushed near its limits, even at 30fps). Bloodborne, another 30fps game makes my PS4 very noisy too.

    So the hardware can be pushed to its limits even at 30fps.

    Like @pcchen wrote I think it's linked to how much total % both CPU and GPU are pushed. There is also the total memory bandwidth to be put into the equation, it's not only CPU & GPU. We know GDDR5 is kind of power hungry. But somehow on average 60fps games push more the CPU, GPU and memory bandwidth than 30fps games. Maybe because they are more optimized and / or they drop more than 30fps games under their cap so they push more the system, on average.
     
  15. function

    function None functional
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    Perhaps there are temperature sensors in different parts of the PS4 SoC or system?

    Temperature and heat generation isn't uniform across a chip, and certain circumstances may cause a spike in certain areas of the chip, even if total TDP is not unusually high.

    For example, on my PC when running Intel Burn Test, I'm sure the GPU isn't hitting anything like the temps of the CPU cores ... and according to the internal sensors in the chip, the package sensor reads higher temps than any of the cores!

    It's possible that certain frequencies of output drive temperatures on specific parts of the SoC high even though average power dissipation isn't unusually high.
     
  16. damienw

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    I always wonder who these people are and what they're doing that their consoles are so loud. I have a launch unit and I've never heard it make a peep. Never. Not once. I'm constantly on it playing AAA games that theoretically are pushing it. And it's silent. I blow it out quarterly and that's basically the only maintenance.
     
  17. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    So the mode optimized the game, the louder it is
     
  18. iroboto

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    uhh... this is how i'm going to try to explain what I mean.
    Here are some graphs from ND that would make sense. Lets look at just the CPU side of things:
    The initial port for TLOUR
    [​IMG]
    Notice all the jobs there spread over 133ms

    Now optimized
    http://imgur.com/0AzQQ04

    The green box represents 16ms, or 60fps

    http://imgur.com/1qoMc2H
    Now we're almost at 30fps.

    http://imgur.com/MfkJQoD
    And now we're at >30 fps

    Look at the graph now. You can see all that work condense, the gaps between jobs has shrunk considerably.
    But there are still large gaps:
    [​IMG]


    Now lets take a look at 16ms:
    [​IMG]
    So we can see from this how 60fps is a lot more work on a processor, because you should remember it's producing this much work every 16.66ms, vs the 30fps which is producing 1/2 the work in same time frame. By the time the CPU at 60fps has done 2 frames, that's 4x more work than at 30fps.

    Now your question is about whether or not you can get 100% CPU at 30 or 60. you can see from their graphs it's not easy. The main reason is that you can't just fill things up. CPU runs with 'Update code' 'Game Update code' and then Render code. It does it in that order. Different parts of the CPU is going to be heavily loaded in some areas and less loaded than others. It's not a matter of just 100% utilizing a CPU, there are parts of game code in which you can't, unless you are purposefully parallelizing things to soak up that idle time.

    the GPU stuff I don't know as well, but I imagine it's very much the same. You can't have 100% GPU utilization without some way to fill gaps, and there are many times in which the GPU can be sitting idle, waiting for work to arrive. By lowering the frame time down, the idle time will also shrink accordingly. This should put more pressure on the hardware in terms of workload. It's just got less time to breathe.
     
    #18 iroboto, Mar 6, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
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  19. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    so at higher frame rate, the PS4 is busy many more time every seconds.

    with VR at 120 fps... how ps4 will sound... or it will take off from my table
     
  20. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    It will sound the same as non VR games. It will not take off from your table.
     
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