How would you react when the PSX3 spec reads 240~480 GFLOPS?

[chaphack]

Actually i think web browsing is getting heavy with all those fancy shockwaver flash popups dhtml videos animations and all.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The "real" reason I oppose architectures like CELL is not the "hardware", but its "impossible" programming model which places the entire burden on developers.

It is not the Hardware, of course, it is the Software + the Hardware + being a SCE product, etc...

 

[notAFanB]

*deleted*

 

[chaphack]

Actually i think web browsing is getting heavy with all those fancy shockwaver flash popups dhtml videos animations and all.

you're kidding right?

Not really. Sure you dont need a 6Ghz cpu NOW, but i think a 733mhz cpu might not make it for really smooth websurfing in the future..

 

[jvd]

We do not need 6 GHz Pentium 4 CPUs for Web Brosing, Word processing, etc... and thnat 6 GHz Pentium 4 will not be able to touch the performance of a 2 GHz CELL processor ( 2-4 PEs, 8 APUs per PE ) when dealing with heavvy multi-tasking and complex 3D rendering.

Oh but your oh so right. We will need much much more than a 6ghz p4 for web searching in the future. Much much more . There will come a day where the web is just one big 3d space fully rendered. The first step to this longhorn. In which u will need a dx 9 card and a fast cpu to run the gui . Once that is standard then the web will morph to this . And it will keep morphing untill we tell our grandchildren how the web used to be text based. Just like i tell my little cousins that are ten years younger than me how when i had a 2.4 modem It used to take 10 mins just to upload an email. You need to think about the future panj. And as this happens and the web develops we will start to need ever single ounce of performance from out net connections. One day surfing on a cable modem will be like surfing on a 56k modem to slow to be of any use.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

....

First: you can split a single thread in multiple ones, maybe some research about DMT by some fellow Intle researcher would help you in this regard ( new threads could be spawned for speculative execution of branches and for early EA calculation for several possible operands the program might need to use in the future filling the TLB with useful data ).

It remains a "research", not a production technology. Secondly, from your description, it seems that the spawned thread will be killed once the correct one is identified after the branch instruction is completed. It doesn't actually increase the active thread count, it simply allows the CPU to go on with fewer branch prediction hardware, because the CPU doesn't have to roll back if the wrong branch is taken.

About the JIT/Code morphing issue, well the fact that on single threaded, legacy applications they only managed Pentium III 733 MHz performance would be more than good enough as for that kin d of processing you describe

Well, those legacy applications do run faster on newer Pentium4s...

We do not need 6 GHz Pentium 4 CPUs for Web Brosing, Word processing, etc... and thnat 6 GHz Pentium 4 will not be able to touch the performance of a 2 GHz CELL processor ( 2-4 PEs, 8 APUs per PE ) when dealing with heavvy multi-tasking and complex 3D rendering.

What good are 16 APUs when the vast majority of software can utilize only one....

 

[DeadmeatGA]

...

BUT what i am asking is just how/where/what, specifically and easy enough to read, does Cell be more interesting than "normal" hardware?

CELL supports process migration from one CPU to another in hardware. That's about the only new innovation found in CELL. A worm developer's dream come true...

 

[wazoo]

There will come a day where the web is just one big 3d space fully rendered. The first step to this longhorn. In which u will need a dx 9 card and a fast cpu to run the gui
.

Longhorn will be slow because of its file system. As far as the GUI is concerned, they have given up a lot about 3D hardware acceleration. Can you give me a recent link about this ??

 

[Paul]

One day surfing on a cable modem will be like surfing on a 56k modem to slow to be of any use.

Nope.

This is the wonder of DSL and Cable, the ISP can scale up the bandwidth given to the end user. ADSL taps out at around 8mbs. Oh and the average web-page only downloads at around 20-30K/s, this is because most server operators just cannot afford having everyone download a webpage at 150K/s.

Broadband isn't a 56k modem, it can scale up in time to meet the demands of consumers. Whereas 56k is forever doomed at 56k because of the FFC, if it weren't for them you could very well connect at around 250kbs.

There will come a day where the web is just one big 3d space fully rendered.

And where are you going to get the information? You need to READ IT, text will never disapear from the internet. The internet may be more shockwave based and websites will be more interactive, but forget your dreams of their being no text.

[/code][/quote]

 

[Chris123234]

One day surfing on a cable modem will be like surfing on a 56k modem to slow to be of any use.

Nope.

This is the wonder of DSL and Cable, the ISP can scale up the bandwidth given to the end user. ADSL taps out at around 8mbs. Oh and the average web-page only downloads at around 20-30K/s, this is because most server operators just cannot afford having everyone download a webpage at 150K/s.

Broadband isn't a 56k modem, it can scale up in time to meet the demands of consumers. Whereas 56k is forever doomed at 56k because of the FFC, if it weren't for them you could very well connect at around 250kbs.

Do you really think that internet products will not advance? That we will use Cable modems forever because the are the epitome of internet connection? That Everything but the web will advance?? Right... We didnt need more memory or 32bit color either did we?

Cable modems can only do like ~30ish MB(b?)/s at maximum from what ive read. Sure thats fast but i doubt it will be fast enough in the years to come. Streaming video is gonna become the normal and the graphics used in websites are gonna get bigger and higher quality.

There will come a day where the web is just one big 3d space fully rendered.

And where are you going to get the information? You need to READ IT, text will never disapear from the internet. The internet may be more shockwave based and websites will be more interactive, but forget your dreams of their being no text.

[/code]

Yea uh you can have a 3d world with text on it. Or with text pop ups like in morrowind or something. When he said text based I'm sure he meant just text or soley based on text without other stuff (as in a 3d environment) Think outside the box.

 

[cthellis42]

Cable modems can only do like ~30ish MB(b?)/s at maximum from what ive read.

Supposedly there are folks going to push cable up to 50Mb/s.

Fiber may be a necessary future step, but the cost is prohibitive for many companies, and since we didn't expect to see even THIS much from cable, who knows what else folks can do with it while it's still being heavily pushed?

 

[Saem]

OMG, I can't believe people are crazy enough to think we'll be moving to a 3d rendered web! Obviously people have been reading one too many crappy scifi novels. First off, at best that's a long way from now. 3D metaphors have been shown to be retarded -- clunky and SLOW! There really is not point in going to a 3D computing environment when we still communicate serially with each other -- text and verbal communication!

3D should only be used where it's need, games being one of those places.

As for Longhorn and 3D, anyone remember MS Bob? THe only reason to go 3D with longhorn is to simplify things, get rid of multiple APIs, but the operating space should still be have in much the same way we have right now. Of course, the desktop and WIMP thing could use some work.

BTW, thread migration is something which IBM has been doing a lot of work with for quite some time now, I don't think Cell having it is innovative.

As for what Cell will be, even with 2 chips, it's going to be quite the monster.

 

[Paul]

Do you really think that internet products will not advance? That we will use Cable modems forever because the are the epitome of internet connection? That Everything but the web will advance?? Right... We didnt need more memory or 32bit color either did we?

Don't you roll your eyes at me. When you have a masters degree in computer networking come back and argue with me.

Did you even have an argument coming into this?

Here was my point

"This is the wonder of DSL and Cable, the ISP can scale up the bandwidth given to the end user."

That's right.. DSL and Cable ISP's can scale up the bandwidth given to the end user as bandwidth needs continue to augment.

CONCIDERING the fact that many websites only downloads at around 200-300kbs and that your average DSL connection is around 1500kbs with an average Cable connection around 2000+ there is still enough bandwidth in current connections to satisfy a "growing" internet for QUITE some time. If anything servers need to be upgraded to allow web-page downloads of 1000kbs+

When did I even say that there will be no medium other than a Cable modem? The point is - There is enough bandwidth(around 38MB for a cable node, and about 8mbs for ADSL) to satisfy our internet browsing for years to come until the Phone companies deploy fiber and school the hell out of the Cable companies.

Cable modems can only do like ~30ish MB(b?)/s at maximum from what ive read. Sure thats fast but i doubt it will be fast enough in the years to come. Streaming video is gonna become the normal and the graphics used in websites are gonna get bigger and higher quality.

This is funny.

Streaming video? You DO KNOW that your average streaming video is only around 300kbs right? That's the quality of the stream. Riiiight, we have 1500+kbs connections that ARENT YET used fully because servers cannot handle these insane loads. It would cost too much for the server operator.

There is so much potential in 1.5mbs it's not even funny; that's not realized because servers cannot dish out the information fast enough.

Yea uh you can have a 3d world with text on it. Or with text pop ups like in morrowind or something. When he said text based I'm sure he meant just text or soley based on text without other stuff (as in a 3d environment) Think outside the box.

Yea uh this is called Shockwave bub, we already have this. Rarely used because it is such a pain in the ass to navigate around a website that is full shockwave. It's a gimmick, it proves not to be usefull at all. Pure eyecandy.

Tell me, what advantages would a 3d website displaying a bit of text have over a 2d traditional website displaying the same text? Other than the fact that it looks better?

 

[Chris123234]

Do you really think that internet products will not advance? That we will use Cable modems forever because the are the epitome of internet connection? That Everything but the web will advance?? Right... We didnt need more memory or 32bit color either did we?

Don't you roll your eyes at me. When you have a masters degree in computer networking come back and argue with me.

Did you even have an argument coming into this?

Here was my point

"This is the wonder of DSL and Cable, the ISP can scale up the bandwidth given to the end user."

That's right.. DSL and Cable ISP's can scale up the bandwidth given to the end user as bandwidth needs continue to augment.

CONCIDERING the fact that many websites only downloads at around 200-300kbs and that your average DSL connection is around 1500kbs with an average Cable connection around 2000+ there is still enough bandwidth in current connections to satisfy a "growing" internet for QUITE some time. If anything servers need to be upgraded to allow web-page downloads of 1000kbs+

When did I even say that there will be no medium other than a Cable modem? The point is - There is enough bandwidth(around 30mbs for a cable node, and about 8mbs for ADSL) to satisfy our internet browsing for years to come until the Phone companies deploy fiber and school the hell out of the Cable companies.

When did you say it?? No where specifically, but in your reply to jvd about 5 posts up you said there would never be a time when cable modems were the equivalent of the 56k modem which, to me, sounds like your saying there will never be anything better.

Cable modems can only do like ~30ish MB(b?)/s at maximum from what ive read. Sure thats fast but i doubt it will be fast enough in the years to come. Streaming video is gonna become the normal and the graphics used in websites are gonna get bigger and higher quality.

This is funny.

Streaming video? You DO KNOW that your average streaming video is only around 300kbs right? That's the quality of the stream. Riiiight, we have 1500+kbs connections that ARENT YET used fully because servers cannot handle these insane loads. It would cost too much for the server operator.

There is so much potential in 1.5mbs it's not even funny; that's not realized because servers cannot dish out the information fast enough.

Yea uh you can have a 3d world with text on it. Or with text pop ups like in morrowind or something. When he said text based I'm sure he meant just text or soley based on text without other stuff (as in a 3d environment) Think outside the box.

Yea uh this is called Shockwave bub, we already have this. Rarely used because it is such a pain in the ass to navigate around.

Tell me, what advantages would a 3d website displaying a bit of text have over a 2d traditional website displaying the same text? Other than the fact that it looks better?

I never said there were any advantages. I was replying to your pigheaded reply to jvd's "There will come a day where the web is just one big 3d space fully rendered. " where you said "And where are you going to get the information? You need to READ IT, text will never disapear from the internet. The internet may be more shockwave based and websites will be more interactive, but forget your dreams of their being no text. ". He never said there wouldnt be any text. He said it wouldnt be just text based.

 

[Paul]

When did you say it?? No where specifically, but in your reply to jvd about 5 posts up you said there would never be a time when cable modems were the equivalent of the 56k modem which, to me, sounds like your saying there will never be anything better.

Again - Cable modems will never be "like a 56k modem" because it can scale up in bandwidth unlike 56k. Case closed. Not to mention there will be better technologies most likely based on using Cable lines(think dial up then DSL), or tricks that can be employed to make the theoretical top speed higher.

Will there be better mediums than Cable? Yes, it's called DSL in it's many forms(Wanna argue make a new topic) just as Fiber is even better than DSL, infact it's the best medium avaliable PERIOD.


A cable modem is a general term, there are some people(OOL users) who have a 10mbs downstream with their Cable and then there are those with a mere 1.5mbs cable downstream. So while one persons Cable may seem like 56k anothers is seeing speeds that could be compared to your standard 56k to broadband scenario today.

Comparing Cable to 56k is just a stupid comparason.

never said there were any advantages. I was replying to your pigheaded reply to jvd's

Even you admit there are no advantages in his dumb idea. We HAVE the technology to render websites in 3D. Why isn't in used in full effect today? Because it's a gimmick, much like a 3D longhorn. It looks nice, but does having transparent 3d windows flying around the desktop provide any advantages?

What will happen to the internet? Your already seeing it today, it's called 3d avertisements.

I swear, the first time I saw my screen shake and I saw the hulk bash through the screen in a 3d advertisement at weather.com I nearly shit my pants. As this was at night.

Banner ad's will start to disapear over-time making way for this new garbage.

Websites over-time will continue to use shockwave and become interactive, here's an example

http://us.playstation.com/games/SCUS-97195/

Sure with a fully 3d rendered 3d website you could display a bit of text rotating on a bump mapped 3d ball made of 3000 polygons which is constantly changing color. But what's the advantage over a traditional 2d website?
[/quote]

 

[Chris123234]

When did you say it?? No where specifically, but in your reply to jvd about 5 posts up you said there would never be a time when cable modems were the equivalent of the 56k modem which, to me, sounds like your saying there will never be anything better.

Again - Cable modems will never be "like a 56k modem" because it can scale up in bandwidth unlike 56k. Case closed.

Well we'll just see if it scales up forever. And when it stops and a new technology is way faster then youll see how its "like a 56k modem" ok?

Will there be better mediums than Cable? Yes, it's called DSL in it's many forms(Wanna argue make a new topic) just as Fiber is even better than DSL, infact it's the best medium avaliable PERIOD.

HAHAHA youre arguing with me about DSL being better which I have not even mentionion once.

A cable modem is a general term, there are some people(OOL users) who have a 10mbs downstream with their Cable and then there are those with a mere 1.5mbs cable downstream. So while one persons Cable may seem like 56k anothers is seeing speeds that could be compared to your standard 56k to broadband scenario today.

Comparing Cable to 56k is just a stupid comparason.

Considering I know that cable can go much higher which ive stated...Its your statement that is stupid. The analogy was that Cable:56k::new technology:Cable.

never said there were any advantages. I was replying to your pigheaded reply to jvd's

Even you admit there are no advantages in his dumb idea. We HAVE the technology to render websites in 3D. Why isn't in used in full effect today? Because it's a gimmick, much like a 3D longhorn. It looks nice, but does having transparent 3d windows flying around the desktop provide any advantages?

Sure with a fully 3d rendered 3d website you could display a bit of text rotating on a bump mapped 3d ball made of 3000 polygons which is constantly changing color. But what's the advantage over a traditional 2d website?

Dude I don't really give a shit about there being advantages. I never mentioned advantages. Forget the advantages and read what I said the first time.

Anyways since your too close minded to listen to what my points are instead of interpreting them to be what you want to argue about I'm done talking with you. Later...

 

[jvd]

There will come a day where the web is just one big 3d space fully rendered. The first step to this longhorn. In which u will need a dx 9 card and a fast cpu to run the gui
.

Longhorn will be slow because of its file system. As far as the GUI is concerned, they have given up a lot about 3D hardware acceleration. Can you give me a recent link about this ??

It was talked about in one of the news threads . There will be a dx 9 path and a dx 7 path for long horn. To use the dx 9 path (3d gui) u need a top of the line dx9 card so i'm figuring the 9500pro and above is what you'd need. With intel liscenseing ati tech now it looks like they will start making a dx9 chipset for the longhorn.

 

[jvd]

One day surfing on a cable modem will be like surfing on a 56k modem to slow to be of any use.

Nope.

This is the wonder of DSL and Cable, the ISP can scale up the bandwidth given to the end user. ADSL taps out at around 8mbs. Oh and the average web-page only downloads at around 20-30K/s, this is because most server operators just cannot afford having everyone download a webpage at 150K/s.

Broadband isn't a 56k modem, it can scale up in time to meet the demands of consumers. Whereas 56k is forever doomed at 56k because of the FFC, if it weren't for them you could very well connect at around 250kbs.

There will come a day where the web is just one big 3d space fully rendered.

And where are you going to get the information? You need to READ IT, text will never disapear from the internet. The internet may be more shockwave based and websites will be more interactive, but forget your dreams of their being no text.

[/code]

[/quote]Your closed minded paul. In the future we will need much more than the max that cable and asdl can offer. Its not my fault you can't see that far ahead.

 

[Paul]

Well we'll just see if it scales up forever. And when it stops and a new technology is way faster then youll see how its "like a 56k modem" ok?

Way to go ignoring everything that has been said. This is like saying that Phone lines suck because dial-up modems use a phone line. But look what we have from it.... ADSL, VDSL, SDSL. All types of Internet mediums through a phone-line, each with different bandwidth depending mainly on the distance to the CO and it's hardware.

HAHAHA youre arguing with me about DSL being better which I have not even mentionion once.

"(Wanna argue make a new topic)" was to anyone reading the thread, not just you. Although you don't know much about networking to even argue to begin with.

Considering I know that cable can go much higher which ive stated...Its your statement that is stupid. The analogy was that Cable:56k::new technology:Cable.

Try keeping it on-topic here. This was the quote on hand.

"One day surfing on a cable modem will be like surfing on a 56k modem to slow to be of any use."

Which is a stupid comparason that anyone who has a clue about computer networking knows.

Cable = 56k? No, just no. There are many different configurations. "Cable" is a generic term.

Dude I don't really give a shit about there being advantages. I never mentioned advantages. Forget the advantages and read what I said the first time.

Like I said; you had no argument. All you did was jump in and defend JVD, you didn't care if you had an argument or not. This is how WWI was started - the alliance system.

Anyways since your too close minded to listen to what my points are instead of interpreting them to be what you want to argue about I'm done talking with you. Later...

Have fun, and better yet go take a networking course if you intend to argue about networking technology.

 

[jvd]

One day surfing on a cable modem will be like surfing on a 56k modem to slow to be of any use.

Nope.

This is the wonder of DSL and Cable, the ISP can scale up the bandwidth given to the end user. ADSL taps out at around 8mbs. Oh and the average web-page only downloads at around 20-30K/s, this is because most server operators just cannot afford having everyone download a webpage at 150K/s.

Broadband isn't a 56k modem, it can scale up in time to meet the demands of consumers. Whereas 56k is forever doomed at 56k because of the FFC, if it weren't for them you could very well connect at around 250kbs.

There will come a day where the web is just one big 3d space fully rendered.

And where are you going to get the information? You need to READ IT, text will never disapear from the internet. The internet may be more shockwave based and websites will be more interactive, but forget your dreams of their being no text.

[/code]

[/quote]Sorry paul. I meant text based like this website is. The future surfing the web will be like going for a walk. Of course there will be text but there will be visuals and sounds that surpass the megar beginings of the web. Think text based games - current video games .