How to handle raytracing discussion while it's platform specific to nVidia

[DavidGraham]

Hence it needs a clear policy that isn't defined by personal whims, which is the purpose of this thread.

Okay, some suggestions then:
1-No insults from anyone, moderators or regular folks.
2-No rants from either side.
3-Posts and counter posts should be directed only at argument points, without dragging the discussion into the personal territory.
4-Failure to comply means editing and removing the offending part or the whole post

 

[BRiT]

Simplier Guideline: Foster Open Discussion without negative tones.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Okay, some suggestions then:
1-No insults from anyone, moderators or regular folks.
2-No rants from either side.
3-Posts and counter posts should be directed only at argument points, without dragging the discussion into the personal territory.
4-Failure to comply means editing and removing the offending part or the whole post

Precisely. A zero tolerance policy operating in the tech forums. Note it's also necessary for the welfare of the mods to issue bans to repeat offenders as we can't be expected to be managing threads 24/7 and cleaning up messes all the time.

 

[Deleted member 2197]

Precisely. A zero tolerance policy operating in the tech forums. Note it's also necessary for the welfare of the mods to issue bans to repeat offenders as we can't be expected to be managing threads 24/7 and cleaning up messes all the time.

I think that's fair ... but this would also include compliance from Mods as in some cases they tend to be in instigators.
Edit: Mods are being held to a higher standard than a normal thread participant.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Absolutely.

 

[Deleted member 2197]

This does not come from just this month in the raytracing discussion but from years of observations and reports from numerous topics.

@DavidGraham and @pharma , your obsessions with Nvidia have blinded you to the reality that your posting styles are hostile to open discussions on technology that do not parrot the company marketting materials. The only way forward for the benefit of the site is you both learn to deal with your biases.

@BRiT ... I think you need to first learn to deal with your own biases. That would benefit this site the most, especially in regard to the Nvidia related threads!

 

[vipa899]

@BRiT ... I think you need to first learn to deal with your own biases. That would benefit this site the most, especially in regard to the Nvidia related threads!

Nvidia, i thought it was consoles that the mods want to shine here. Yes AMD develops for consoles, so there could be a connection. Just wondering, do the mods own this forum, do they pay, donate or anything like that?
Maybe the owner (s) works for AMD? Sponsor? Im serious, just browsing through the forums ive never been, there is a clear trend that favors everything console, mostly Sony, and AMD.
Or there is no such thing and the mod team just is bias in amd/consoles favor.

 

[BRiT]

Heres my full disclosure of products I have bought or plan to buy in the future::

Atari 2600
Atari 8bit
Atari ST
Nintendo NES
Nintendo SNES
Sega Genesis
Sega Dreamcast
Sony Playstation 1
Sony Playstation 2
MS Xbox 360
MS Xbox One X
Sony Playstation 4 Pro
Creative SoundBlaster
SoundBlaster 32
SoundBlaster 64 AWE
Gravis Ultrasound
SoundBlaster X-FI

Aureal A3D
S3 STB
Orchid 3dfx V1
Diamond 3dfx V2
3dfx V3​

Matrox G100
Matrox G200
AMD 1800 GPU

Intel Pentium 133/150 MMX
AMD Athlon Slot A​

2x Intel Celeron 300
Intel Pentium Pro
Intel Pentium Xeon B0 stepping
Intel i3 530
Intel i3 540
Intel Xeon X3220 Quad Core
Intel Xeon E3-1270 4 Core, 8 Thead CPU
Intel Dual Xeon E5-2670 8 Core, 16 Thread CPUs
3x Intel NUC (2017 models)
Nintendo Wii
Nintendo Switch
Nvidia nForce Motherboard
Nvidia MX440
Nvidia 7800 GT
Nvidia 8800 GT
Nvidia 1070 GTX
*Nvidia 2070 RTX

 

[iroboto]

Nvidia, i thought it was consoles that the mods want to shine here. Yes AMD develops for consoles, so there could be a connection. Just wondering, do the mods own this forum, do they pay, donate or anything like that?
Maybe the owner (s) works for AMD? Sponsor? Im serious, just browsing through the forums ive never been, there is a clear trend that favors everything console, mostly Sony, and AMD.
Or there is nu such thing and the mod team just is bias in amd/consoles favor.

No.

Everyone here is just frustrated with the communication that is happening and at times people are likely to get upset with specific behaviours or types of posts. There is no sponsoring or shilling happening.

Everything I've seen happen on these events is quite normal, problems like these will arise all the time and are inevitable despite any type of rules or safeguards we put down, what will separate us is how we (mods or posters) choose to deal with the problems

 

[Entropy]

No.

Everyone here is just frustrated with the communication that is happening and at times people are likely to get upset with specific behaviours or types of posts. There is no sponsoring or shilling happening.

There isn't? How can you tell? I sure can't. We know that these kind of promotion services are supplied and taken advantage of, so why would you assume that Beyond3D forums would be exempt?

 

[Deleted member 2197]

I think there are people who are enthusiastic about vendors and chose to refer to promotion/marketing/tech materials in appropriate threads. As long as it relevant to the discussion at hand it's valid contribution, especially when there is a lack of "general" knowledge regarding what's being discussed. It happens all the time in both GPU forums, as well as console forums.

Edit: One place you might find more marketing related materials are in "speculative" threads, as indicated by the thread title where the discussion is centered around near future product directions.

 

[iroboto]

There isn't? How can you tell? I sure can't. We know that these kind of promotion services are supplied and taken advantage of, so why would you assume that Beyond3D forums would be exempt?

Because conspiracy theories make for terrible way to live through life.
The most obvious reason is the fact that Rys continues to fund this forum and annually asks us to subscribe/donate to keep the forum alive. You can ask him directly if it's funded by X or Y and if so what the expectations are as a result of X or Y, and unless that directly correlates to how the moderators moderate, then your point in null. If you really think you have validity, I honestly suggest you reach out to Rys directly.

 

[mrcorbo]

Honestly, a little self-awareness and a little self-control goes a long way.

Self-awareness might prevent someone from posting in such a way that a "shill" comment would apply to them.

Self-control might prevent someone from posting based on an emotional reaction to something someone posted on a tech forum about a tech company/product.

 

[iroboto]

While I appreciate the motion to insert comedic relief to make this topic a bit more light hearted for all those involved, it also removes from the seriousness that is required for us to learn and move forward. There was a real effort done by the OP to directly address this and I feel as though making it light hearted may undermine the posters' desire for resolution, and besets a tone that the moderators aren't deeply listening to the concerns brought forward.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Nvidia, i thought it was consoles that the mods want to shine here. Yes AMD develops for consoles, so there could be a connection. Just wondering, do the mods own this forum, do they pay, donate or anything like that?
Maybe the owner (s) works for AMD? Sponsor? Im serious, just browsing through the forums ive never been, there is a clear trend that favors everything console, mostly Sony, and AMD.
Or there is no such thing and the mod team just is bias in amd/consoles favor.

The moderators get paid nothing. Well, I don't - maybe the others do and I'm left out? Rys asked us a while back if we wanted any money from the donations and we said just fund the forum. We do it out of good will to keep one corner of the internet focussed on intelligent discussion without the meteoric amounts of shit that other places have always had and which I think led all of us to become members here - that's certainly true for me (bunch of forums asking about PS2 tech and comparing to Xbox - god, the fanboy nonsense!!! - then ArsTechnica, which linked to posts from B3D which led me here). B3D has more console coverage because that's what people prefer to talk about, plus back in the day it had a significant vocal presence from console devs giving genuine inside info and tech discussion (faf, DeanoC, ERP, etc). We don't go around randomly deleting posts about PC and banning users just because they aren't talking about consoles; I find the notion that the board is console and AMD centric because the mods are offensive. I moderate pretty much exclusively in the console space as that's my interest. Coverage is mostly Sony because Sony owns the majority of the market at the moment...well duh. What are we supposed to do? Start banning Sony threads until a certain quota of Nintendo and MS threads are created?? And TBH, such (constant) remarks about the make-up and prejudices of the board annoy me a great deal. Why can't you just accept the board for what it is? Why does it matter whether the mods favour console or not? Our moderation is independent of our personal interests and follows principles of removing noise to enable people to converse, and sometimes managing discussions so we don't have monolithic, unwieldy threads. I've never known any other poster harp on so much about prejudices and biases and agendas.

There may be paid shills on the forum, although as long as they post fairly in a way that generates discussion, that's not a problem. There have been obvious platform advocates in the past that have been given the boot for persistently crapping on threads whether they were paid or not.

 

[AlNom]

While I appreciate the motion to insert comedic relief to make this topic a bit more light hearted for all those involved, it also removes from the seriousness that is required for us to learn and move forward. There was a real effort done by the OP to directly address this and I feel as though making it light hearted may undermine the posters' desire for resolution, and besets a tone that the moderators aren't deeply listening to the concerns brought forward.

Case in point, noise problem solved.

 

[vipa899]

(bunch of forums asking about PS2 tech and comparing to Xbox - god, the fanboy nonsense!!!

Thats the reason i created a account here, 6th gen and all the old posts about it here.

B3D has more console coverage because that's what people prefer to talk about

Yes true, atleast here on B3D, when it comes down to console tech. PC tech is more on other forums. Not talking about games itself.

Why can't you just accept the board for what it is?

Oh yes i have accepted that, now that i see mods/people themselfs saying that B3D has become a console place i do understand the whole thing. The forum likes consoles more then pc's and that reflects in posts, perhaps nothing at all to do with agedans or whatever.
You wont see anymore of this agendas, biases etc from me atleast. It is what it is, i cant or want to change that anyway, for console il be here, for PC elsewhere.

With the RT thing, i was/am just excited about new tech, nothing was ment to upset people with that.

I think this thread was a good thing and you and mods handled it well for what it is. I dont think at all either that your approaches to me on the PM were hostile, but friendly.

 

[DavidGraham]

While I appreciate the motion to insert comedic relief to make this topic a bit more light hearted for all those involved

I kinda liked that comic relief actually, it means we are all in it for the betterment of the forums and not for anything else.

I will admit that this forum is my favorite place on the internet, I work as a medical doctor, my specialty is neuropsychiatry, I work a lot of shifts at the Stroke Unit in my hospital, so I kinda have a lot of spare time in my hands during those shifts -when patients are stable of course - and I like to use that time having intelligent and thought provoking tech conversations. This is the only place that fully achieves this goal.

If there is one thing I can say about the mods here is that they are fair, friendly and caring for the site, regardless of any differences of opinion or the occasional touch every now and then. :smile2:

 

[vipa899]

If there is one thing I can say about the mods here is that they are fair, friendly and caring for the site, regardless of any differences of opinion or the occasional touch every now and then. :smile2:

Totally agree with that, hence my post in this topic too. Despite me accusing mods for having agendas, bias or the posting of agressive RT countering, the mods and in special Shifty handled it very well imo. Puts their mod skills to the test
I see some serious tech discussion on the RT going on, good thing.

 

[Entropy]

Because conspiracy theories make for terrible way to live through life.
The most obvious reason is the fact that Rys continues to fund this forum and annually asks us to subscribe/donate to keep the forum alive. You can ask him directly if it's funded by X or Y and if so what the expectations are as a result of X or Y, and unless that directly correlates to how the moderators moderate, then your point in null. If you really think you have validity, I honestly suggest you reach out to Rys directly.

"Conspiracy theories"? What exactly do you mean is theoretical here? That these companies exist? That their services are bought by, for instance, Nvidia?
Why would Rys involvement in any way imply that individuals with such influencing agendas cannot register here? I never questioned the moderators, why do you make that implication?

The problem is that there is a wide grey scale ranging from dispassionate intellectual discourse via fanboyism to paid shilling. Differentiating between variants is not necessarily easy. When it comes to Nvidias RTX, this is further complicated by individuals that might be general technology enthusiasts that are excited that something graspably new is offered. So is someone who is bullish on RT an Nvidia fanboy, a paid shill, a tech enthusiast or someone who actually know what they are talking about and and believe in the technology?
The moderators will have to sort that out, but I'll submit that people who are aggressive simply make people leave the forums, rather than drive them to talk to the moderators. People with jobs, families, responsibilities in life, do not necessarily have the energy and time to prioritise these forums if the environment becomes too strident.

It's not a trivial problem. I've seen more than one qualified open forum retreat behind invitation walls, because the ones contributing signal simply got fed up with the noise. Or more typically loose their best contributors and deteriorate into irrelevance.
Rys and moderators have to be in agreement about what they want with these forums, and act accordingly.