Homebrew independent games allowed on PS3

[Inane_Dork]

Without knowing how much is already done, how can anyone say how big a task finishing it off will be?

If you would like to stick to your technically correct guns that much, go ahead. It's just probability that Sony is not nearing completion on all facets of the network.

In the context of homebrew distribution, how much effort would that really be? Just a few big-ass servers dotted around the globe with an IP address that PS3 can dial into? With a bit of a PHP script to take uploads and sort them based on a few criteria?

You'd have to keep an eye on them, make sure they don't contain illegal material, porn, culturally offensive words, etc. And you'd need some way to search for all relevant criteria, not just sort. An entirely open system would have thousands of pieces of content in a few years. It's unreasonable to scroll through that.

And, of course, you have all the server maintenance and upkeep. As well as backups and file replication between them to make content available everywhere.

All that would be quite reasonable in cost, providing that Sony has advertising all over it. I'm sure that's a worthwhile trade-off for most people.

 

[Sis]

Unless, I don't know, crazy idea here, but... maybe they already started? You know, like they decided maybe they'd do some of the work before actually announcing it?

It's a radical concept I know, but some times I can't help wondering if these huge corporations might just be up to stuff behind our backs.

It'll still be a v1 product. And Sony does not have infinite resources to throw on the problem, nor can they find a way around the mythical man-month (if it takes a woman nine months to have a baby, nine woman can't do it in one).

 

[darkblu]

It'll still be a v1 product. And Sony does not have infinite resources to throw on the problem, nor can they find a way around the mythical man-month (if it takes a woman nine months to have a baby, nine woman can't do it in one).

be careful with attributing microsoft's initial attempts successfulness to everybody else. people can and do get thigs right from the first attemp, you know.

 

[Mordecaii]

A lot of people are forgetting that Sony isn't really starting from square one anyway... First of all, their online division (SOE) has around 7 years of experience with infrastructures, and I'm sure they'll tap into some of that knowledge. On top of that, they're partnered with Gamespy, who have also been running online services for a very long time. It might be different if Sony were coming up with everything on their own with no previous experience, but this is far from the truth. And like others have mentioned, Sony has likely been working on this for a while now, so chances are they already know exactly what's feasible and can be completed and what isn't/can't be.

 

[Sis]

be careful with attributing microsoft's initial attempts successfulness to everybody else. people can and do get thigs right from the first attemp, you know.

Be careful with falling for the hype that Microsoft delivers terrible v1 products. Software in general is difficult to produce, yet over and over again all we hear is "it can't be that hard." It isn't, of course, when you don't have to worry about localization, extensibility, maintainability, supportability, ease of use, overall branding and product family fit, cross team interactions, user education, marketing and marketability, testability, and basic correctness of the product (ie, does it do what it needs to be doing to maximize revenue and minimize costs?).

I've been doing software development for over 10 years now and it's my experience that a v1 product is incredibly difficult to ship--more so that any other version--and that's only more so when it's a very important piece of software.

 

[Sdw]

This would be a spectacular idea - having a micropayment system allowing people to sell homebrew games (and maybe other apps aswell).
Full access to the hardware wouldn't really be necessary, but atleast the basic OpenGL-ES would be good.

Anyway, I'm leaning a bit towards to the "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't" on this one.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Wasn't someting similar supposed to come for xbox360 and "Live" too.
Prior the launch, at E3 '05 or around that time, I remember in some interview J.Allard hyped the next gen "Live" and it would enable your girlfriend to design clothes for a game character and sell them online.
That was supposed to be the big draw to get traditionally non-gamers (girls?) on "Live".

Still, that hasn't materialised yet.

I hope this homebrew games marketplace will not have similar faith, and that the next gen console online marketplaces would indeed some day contain user made content, and that the creator of said content would actually get paid for it.

I can see many problems to be overcome until this kind of system can be functioning.
For example, there should be some kind of system that prices the content according to popularity and user ratings, unless all content goes through Sony QA and is given a price there.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why shouldn't it be free-market? not that I'm a big fan of free-market, but I can't see why content should be priced according to rules and not whatever the creator thinks they can charge for it. If one person wants to sell one dress for $3 and another wants to sell a collection of 10 outfits for $2.50, let the market (users) decide how much people are willing to pay for stuff.

 

[rabidrabbit]

It might work irl, but not so online.
Unless you'd be able to demo what you're being sold before you buy.
A system where the price of goods increases as the demand increases would be good, but there's still the question of initial price and after what point the price increases and up to what price.
While in theory the system might sound simple enough, but after you start to implement it in various countries with various laws I can see it soon becoming quite a task.
I'll be very pleasantly surprised indeed if we'll see this from any console maker this coming gen.

Edit: I just remembered, SOE does alerady have such a system for EQ, doesn't it? How has it worked? Is it available in every country EQ can be played?
I think I was being overly pesimistic then

 

[Jubal]

No but still, they have promised ALOT of stuff, and 6 months is going to come pretty quick.

Why is it that whenever people talk about the Playstation network people assume Sony is just right that moment starting to work it out? It's likely they began work on this thing during the PS2's lifecycle.

 

[darkblu]

Be careful with falling for the hype that Microsoft delivers terrible v1 products. Software in general is difficult to produce, yet over and over again all we hear is "it can't be that hard." It isn't, of course, when you don't have to worry about localization, extensibility, maintainability, supportability, ease of use, overall branding and product family fit, cross team interactions, user education, marketing and marketability, testability, and basic correctness of the product (ie, does it do what it needs to be doing to maximize revenue and minimize costs?).

I've been doing software development for over 10 years now and it's my experience that a v1 product is incredibly difficult to ship--more so that any other version--and that's only more so when it's a very important piece of software.

i never said anything about how hard or easy it is to do something well from v1. what i implied was that it is doable given sufficient resources, right technology and an extra pinch of common sense*. yes, all those things you bothered to enum hold true, for v1 and for each and every version thereafter (otherwise sw products would improve monotonously and ad infinitum with new versions). yet somehow microsoft have demonstrated an amazing persistence in this regard - name one first they got right, god forbid invented in-house!. and last, i'm not falling for the hype and i don't see a point in citing industry experience which many of us here have in sickening abunds.

* it's really surprising how that particular resource is the first to run out on any big sw/high-tech project especially when technically illiterat factors (read: marketting) actively interfere.

 

[Sis]

i never said anything about how hard or easy it is to do something well from v1. what i implied was that it is doable given sufficient resources, right technology and an extra pinch of common sense*.

I'm not sure if we're talking past each other or not, but it feels that way. V1 products are hard--that's my experience. I list what my experience is only to note that it's based on anectdotal but first-hand experience. Your suggesting that it's doable is almost an appeal to authority. Sure, Sony could delivery everything they've promised. And they may have been working on this since PS2 was released (not what you've said--I'm paraphrasing others now).

Or, more likely, they are bound to the same costs of software development as every other software company on the planet, therefore decreasing the odds that their v1 launch product will include everything they've planned. From a resource and revenue perspective, it makes more sense to release a v1 product with targetted scenarios before adding "nice to have" features, such as homebrew marketplace. This way you maximize your development resources, especially during a period of time--specifically pre-v1--when they are not directly contributing to the company's bottom line.

 

[patsu]

In my view, Sony should release "PSN" in phases, just like what they did with PSP: The firmware is upgraded over a few months.

The users will have an easier time getting used to the basic services. The more advanced goodies can come next. Otherwise, there's just too many things to swallow at the same time. It can be confusing.

It is also easier to handle customer support to ensure a satisfactory "first impression". The tricky part is to decide what to roll out first. I hope they focus on online gaming as one of the launch features. The music, video shopping can come later (They need to let Blu-ray shine first anyway).

Unfortunately, it seems more likely to have the other stuff ready first since online gaming will require close cooperation with the developers, not just within the Sony Playstation Network team.

 

[Mintmaster]

Let me play a bit of devil's advocate here and ask the obvious question: why is homebrew important at all? Other than being really cool for geeks, do you believe it will drive sales of consoles? Will it drive software profit for Sony?

Guys, this is a very important point. The payoff just isn't there for Sony.

Look at the risk: Imagine if everybody could run their own custom benchmarks to find out RSX's real rendering power. Imagine if someone ran open challenges to optimize some task, and across the globe nobody could get it to run faster than an Athlon64. Sony has very talented developers, and if they make games that look good, as it is they can gloat about how powerful PS3 is without real proof. Really it's the talent of a team who could do the same thing on comparably weak PC system. Opening up the system destroys this marketing power they have.

This is undoubtedly an April Fool's joke. But if there's any truth, I'm one of the geeks that would instantly jump over to the PS3.

 

[Titanio]

Guys, this is a very important point. The payoff just isn't there for Sony.

Look at the risk: Imagine if everybody could run their own custom benchmarks to find out RSX's real rendering power. Imagine if someone ran open challenges to optimize some task, and across the globe nobody could get it to run faster than an Athlon64. Sony has very talented developers, and if they make games that look good, as it is they can gloat about how powerful PS3 is without real proof. Really it's the talent of a team who could do the same thing on comparably weak PC system. Opening up the system destroys this marketing power they have.

That makes no sense. They opened the PS2 up to this, and had no problem about it. You can download a Cell development environment right now and measure its performance with your code (it's apparently cycle-accurate).

The fact of the matter is, Sony has encouraged homebrew to increasing degrees with both of their previous home systems, and they have now announced that Linux will be included on the PS3 HDD - something Kutaragi previously said he would do to encourage software development for Cell. I think then it is highly likely that homebrew will happen - that's not the same as saying that this rumour will come true, however, as its significance is in the claim that you'll be able to distribute your work across the PNP. That I have doubts about - it's more likely I think that independent communities will build around PS3 Linux with code and app sharing via independent sites on the open internet.

In short, I don't think it's a question of whether homebrew will happen, rather what standing, if any, it'll be given beyond those who boot into Linux. And really, that's kind of moot, though it would be real nice for homebrewers to potentially tap into the audience who don't ever use the Linux on their PS3.

 

[inefficient]

I'd imagine the major deterrent for developers trying to bypass commission is the fact that million sellers will only make $10,000 in this model. That's not enough to pay on person's salary/yearly wage.

10c * 1,000,000 = $100,000. That is plenty for even a full time job. And WAY more than what most indy authors make off of all their hard work.

 

[Magnum PI]

FYI

Seems I can't pull a fast one over anyone around here. Yes, this was a April fools day prank. But, really.. wouldn't it be cool.