Heaven less opulent than Vatican, reports disappointed Pope

[RussSchultz]

 

[StefanS]

On the one hand it doesnt solve his dilemma, if he cannot accept the universe existing without cause why could he accept god without cause? That is just inconsistent. On the other hand, the arguement ignores infinity .... maybe you can go as far as back as you want, and never find a first cause.

Usually religious people invoke infinity, but only for god (or the first cause if you like). To let him off the hook for needing a cause ... but I dont really see the reason to detour through god, we can just posit that existance has always been, and will always be (plenty of cosmological theories which fit this).

The first cause arguement for god does not survive Occam's razor.

That's more or less Bertrand Russell argument...

 

[V3]

No I was mainly meaning when God tells Abraham and Sarah, when they are old, that they are going to have kids. They both laughed at him, and questioned how that could be.

Abraham laughed with his face bow to the ground. He had his doubt because of his old age. Even that, what he said, he kept it to himself. But as you read on, he actually performed the circumcision on that very day when God made his covenant with him.

Then just a nice little capstone to that I do believe Isaac means "he laughs" which is a direct reference to their laughing at God.

But later that play of word in Sarah statement is for joy, not for disbelief.

Still Abraham was tested again when asked to offer Isaac as burnt offerring.

No, I definitely understand why he lied about her. But that still doesn't making lying a correct course of action.

And didn't he get kicked out ? Beside his wife Sarah is also his sister.

I guess it was a little broad to just list Christians, but I was mainly refering to was what seems to be the American culture's concensus on what Christianity is, and it seems to contradict with what the old testament's stories are showing. Which was my main point about christians in general not needing the old testament anymore. Yeah the messages are the same as the new testament, it's just that modern culture now views things differently than what the text shows.

Well, I can't say I am familiar with the American culture but Christian in N.A are composed of many protestant denominations. So I am sure they don't contradict the old testament, since protestant are by the Bible only Christian. You should at least finish reading the Pentateuch in the OT, and read the Letter to the Hebrew in NT, to contrast the old and the new covenant.

But, yes in OT you get phrophet that is reluctant, like phrophet Jonah. In NT Jesus himself, who does he reached out too ? The poor and the sick and the sinners. His disciples all ran away when he was captured. One sold him, the other denied him.

Its not how you start. Its how it ends that matter.