The thread I linked to earlier also touched on potential for multi-format devices. Apparently, as a Blu-Ray licensee, your are NOT allowed to manufacture or sell a consumer electronics device capable of supporting both formats. I don't know how that effects PC's or add-on's but the likely hood of the scenario you described seems remote. The more realistic outcome if both formats reach similar levels of penetration, is not to adapt the hardware but the software. The studios will be pressured to release content for both formats. You will then be able to simply buy the movie you want in the format you need.
HD DVD Xbox 360 add-on demo
- Thread starter Acert93
- Start date
Rockster said:
Mmmm not sure if that's correct. There are already some companies, most notably Samsung, that are planning to release hybrid players as soon as it makes commercial sense to do so.
Which would work. It'd be like the same game being released on two different platforms. The difference would be that in the long run, there likely won't be any platform-exclusives in the movie space. Sony will release their movies to both HDDVD and BRD if the markets are substantial enough.
I think a lot depends on how well this addon sells. By March next year there'll likely be something like 6 million BRD players in the form of PS3. I don't think standalone players are going to make but a tiny portion of the total number of HD players out there. But if this addon sells well, which seems likely if most XB360 are HDTV owners who will want HD movies, you have millions of HDDVD XB360s and millions of BRD PS3s, and the market become split forevermore.
I think a lot depends on how well this addon sells. By March next year there'll likely be something like 6 million BRD players in the form of PS3. I don't think standalone players are going to make but a tiny portion of the total number of HD players out there. But if this addon sells well, which seems likely if most XB360 are HDTV owners who will want HD movies, you have millions of HDDVD XB360s and millions of BRD PS3s, and the market become split forevermore.
Rockster said:
That may be the reason for the EU investigation.
EU investigating HD DVD, Blu-ray licensing terms
Acert93 said:
This suspicions have been confirmed by two distinct sources. I don't know when or how (new SKU?) the 360 will get HDMI, but it is in the works. The recent pictures of a Xbox 360 motherboard with HDMI are not fakes.
Me personally... I just want solid 720p support at 1280x1024 on Computer LCDs/CRTs. I did learn via some 360 owners that for Xbox 360 games that don't do the fake letterboxing at 1280x1024 that you can set it to 720p and manually adjust your CRT to fit. Hopefully Sony will make letterboxed 1280x1024 standard and MS tightens up the requirements on the 360 in this regards.
Shifty Geezer said:
On the flip side though, MS should have given us more information about the device, so as an early adopter with absolutely no information about the MS add-on, and nothing but rave reviews about the A1 and XA1, I went ahead and bought an A1. Now that I have given away two of my HDTVs and the other 360, I'm down to just one HDTV...for now
. So MS essentially lost a sale to someone who would have bought it day and date, I know of a couple other 360 owners that have done the same thing.So the situation for MS now is, how do they get the early adopters to help push the format, because many of us have already taken the plunge. What can they add to the experience that I don't already get?
Shifty Geezer said:
I disagree with your assesment..first historically add ons for console don't sell well. Second the standalone players will take off especially towards the perception towards a dominant format. Check it...
Ask HDBeat: Who else is going to make a HD DVD player?
Posted Aug 4th 2006 11:57AM by Matt Burns
This happens to be a very common question around here. Who else is going to make a HD DVD player? The only HD DVD player available right now happens to be from Toshiba; well, there is a RCA branded player but it is really just a re-badge from the Toshiba. The HD DVD team isn't a very big one and besides Toshiba as their star player, the only other consumer electronics makers on the roster is Sanyo and NEC. We did peep Sanyo's first HD DVD player at this years CES, but the HD-S100 is nowhere to be seen even though it was suppose to launch earlier this year. The HD DVD bandwagon has an uphill battle to face once Blu-ray gets their ball rolling, they have so many CE manufacturers behind 'em, the market is going to be bombarded with Blu-ray players. Toshiba will have to stand-up and prevail in a big way before any of those Blu-ray team members cross over to the HD DVD camp.
Historically...
Well as far as history goes, I think most people should throw their pre conceived notions out the window. Its disingenuous to state that historically add-ons have not sold well, when you have no basis for a comparison, the 360 add-on has nothing to do with games, unlike most every other console add-on. Also, if we are going to go with history we should probably rethink three of the four prices for consoles we know about, > $299, because historically...
Well as far as history goes, I think most people should throw their pre conceived notions out the window. Its disingenuous to state that historically add-ons have not sold well, when you have no basis for a comparison, the 360 add-on has nothing to do with games, unlike most every other console add-on. Also, if we are going to go with history we should probably rethink three of the four prices for consoles we know about, > $299, because historically...
Shifty Geezer said:
Just because someone buys a PS3 doesn't mean theya re at all interested in Bluray.
I doubt any SDTV owners are going to be buying Bluray movies. No reason for them to. Even among HDTV owners I would expect most of them staying with the DVD format simply due to cost. Plus I don't see the general market rushing out to replace DVD's with Bluray at anywhere near the rate that they bought DVD's to replace VHS movies.
I doubt there will be anything close to widespread adoption of either format until the PS4/Xbox whatever launch.
Powderkeg said:
Well by default they will be interested in blu-ray because the games will be in blu-ray format and possibly the game caseing will be in blu-ray type. And this is the extra marketing and psychology to get consumer to check out blu-ray movies.
However, their still remains the question of traction for the format?
Powderkeg said:
Onkyo and D&M Holdings have joined the HD DVD promotion group as well. D&M Holdings are the parent company for Denon and Marantz. We may see some more players announced at CEDIA in September.
I have a hunch that we'll see the 360 HD DVD add-on drive expand its role to support Media Center PC once Vista has been released.
I don't really have a horse in this race, I'd prefer them both to die and a holo disc format to be the next one out, but from what little I've read Sony's MPEG-2 decision is kind of biting them in the ass right now. I have no idea why they wanted to stick to a technically inferior format (MPEG-2 vs h.264 or VC1), maybe they wanted to make it impossible for a company to do one mastering job that could be used for both platforms. Crazy.Mythos said:
Anyway I don't think anyone is too interested in selling very many of these 360 add-ons, it's just a way to negate a Sony bullet point. From the looks of it it's just a drive and USB hub in an ugly housing, so it should be inexpensive to make, but a standalone player will almost always be better for consumers and when the Chinese factories ramp up they'll probably be cheaper too.
quest55720
Regular
Sony did mpeg 2 for the money they get a cut from any movie encoded that way. I still can not see a lot of people who purchase a PS3 going out and buying bunch of blueray movies. Why would a parent spend up to 10 dollars more buy a movie that can only be played on the kids toy. I think the ps3 will hooked up to the secondary TV that is going to be SDTV more than many are ready to admit. I honestly don't see blue ray or HD-DVD taking off till the stand alone players get to a mass market price. Sure some of the single people in thier 20s with disposable income might buy a few movies here and there. It is the average family that sony is going to have problems with. Why would a parent spend more on blue ray movies if they have to unhook the PS3 move it to the living room watch the movie move it back were the kids play games. I just don't see the average family letting thier expensive HDtv and expensive HD package from the cable company being dominated by the kids video game system. Dad will wanna watch football or the baseball playoffs in HD. Mom will want to watch her prime time shows in HD.
I think both formats are being set up for failure. I think the best way for either formate to win is to include the DVD version of the movie and get the standalone players under 250 dollars. One of the biggest factors that will hurt both formats is convincing the average person that either is much better than DVDs. For example my father he could not see any difference in a upconverted DVD,HDlite on Direct tv and a 1080i OTA show. If he can't notice that difference he won't notice the difference between an upconverted DVD and a blue ray movie. My father bought his dvd player when they were still in the 300 dollar price range because he could see how completely superior DVD was over VHS.
I do admit the toshiba player temps me because of the rave reviews of its upconverting ability.
I think both formats are being set up for failure. I think the best way for either formate to win is to include the DVD version of the movie and get the standalone players under 250 dollars. One of the biggest factors that will hurt both formats is convincing the average person that either is much better than DVDs. For example my father he could not see any difference in a upconverted DVD,HDlite on Direct tv and a 1080i OTA show. If he can't notice that difference he won't notice the difference between an upconverted DVD and a blue ray movie. My father bought his dvd player when they were still in the 300 dollar price range because he could see how completely superior DVD was over VHS.
I do admit the toshiba player temps me because of the rave reviews of its upconverting ability.
thatdude90210
Regular
In MajorNelson's latest podcast, he talks to a couple of people in the company that are working on the HD DVD addon. They still have no price though.
This is a different field. We have people with HD TVs playing HD games but not having an HD movie player. If they are offered a cheap(ish) HDDVD player that plugs into their console, I expect it to do well, no? If it's $200 and the other HD players are $500+ why would you not go this route?Mythos said:
As for other manfucturers that doesn't make much sway in the adoption IMO. You have a dozen different makes of HDDVD and BluRay players, all at around $1000 a pop. The adoption of those is going to be slow. Then you have a $500-600 console that people will buy without regard for the BRD playback. That means you have a lot more BRD drives in the wild which results in more movie sales on that format.
They don't need to to 'win the war'. They just need to become the only format. With 6 million BRD players out there in the form of PS3 by the time HDDVD has 100,000, even if only 10% of PS3 owners care to watch BluRay movies they've trumped HDDVD good and proper. As for how many want HD movies, given the price of these consoles they are expected to go to mostly affluent, tech-savvy users, and the chances of them having an HD set is high. Will they choose HD movies over DVDs? If the quality improvement is there, yes, and from the sounds of it the quality is there.
To win the format war doesn't need to beat DVD. DVD sales may reign supreme. This fight is over the HD movie space, not the movie space, and for that one format just has to outnumber the other format so much that it's given up on. PS3 was a (near) flawless chance at that but now HDDVD has a similar cost to function device, it's not clear which will sell the most. If MS had offered a BRD drive too, and really given users a choice, it would have stayed likely that BRD would win on numbers.
Except potential future proofing. If you know HD movies are better and are going to get an HDTV but haven't got one yet, buying the HD movie noe gives you SD viewing like DVD but in a couple of years you can watch it again in HD. If you buy the DVD, you either have to buy the film in HD in 2 years or stick with DVD. That's a reason. Whether it's one many SD owners will go with, I don't know, but at the moment isn't it safe to say many of these console owners are HDTV owners who will be interested in HD movies?
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quest55720
Regular
Shifty Geezer said:
You are saying to future proof the average person would pay more and only be able to play that movie on one device? With how cheap DVD players people have them hooked up to every TV in the house. I don't think the average person with a 1500 dollar HDTV or SDtv will see that much of a difference to justify the cost. Maybe in 5-10 years when large 1080P TVs become comon place.
It's a possibility, and one these early poll results show people are considering. Note I never said it would be the norm or most popular choice, but it's a possibility for getting more sales of BRD movies for PS3 than only the HDTV owners. If 1 in 10 PS3 owners buys BRD now of new movies in anticipation of the HDTV they will own, that'll be half a million customers perhaps by March '07, on top of those with HDTVs buying BRDs to watch now. That's going to be more than standalone disc players and with far greater growth if PS3 can maintain sell thtough (which is of course debatable). That's why the industry was looking at BRD as being the winning format as PS3 would account for lots of players, and that would produce lots of sales relative to fewer standalone players.
