Have MS been digging themselves into a hole?

[Shifty Geezer]

Looking back at MS's past actions regards the next-gen, do people think things have been going well or not? These are the points that strike me so far...

1) MTV showing has generally been derided, but that said, there's reports of preorders so maybe it worked and us intellectuals don't understand it's clever appeal to the masses?

2) The demos shown so far included a lot of low-quality demos, reportedly running on underpowered hardware. This has left a rather bad impression. Why didn't MS announce before hand "remember, what you're seeing is running on kits at only a third of XB360's power"?

3) The plants in the audience at E3 were obvious and took a lot of creditability away from MS by all accounts.

4) The backwards compatibility, something I thought a valuable addition, isn't really BC. You can't take an existing game you have from your XB library and play it on XB360. They are apparently 'rewriting' games to run on 360. That severely limits BC appeal.

5) The production of XB is coming to an end this year apparently, with nVidia no longer supplying chips. That fixes the user base at it's current amount. Without true BC XB360 owners won't be buying XB games, which I'd have thought would pee off the developers. Unless they port over to 360, in which case won't the initial games be very weak, little more than current gen with AA at 720p?

The only obvious pluses I see for MS so far is some strong content in the E3 showing, like GOW, and a potentially long lead in releases if PS3 comes out regionally many months later. This could be abig plus. But mostly it seems to me that MS have rather fumbled the ball. The sudden break from previous gen confuses me as I don't see what the developers are supposed to do with their XB games and they haven't given a very strong showing of themselves thus far.

What do others make of MS's position at the mo'?

 

[Qroach]

1) MTV showing has generally been derided, but that said, there's reports of preorders so maybe it worked and us intellectuals don't understand it's clever appeal to the masses?

Like I and others said, it was designed to appeal to casuals.

2) The demos shown so far included a lot of low-quality demos, reportedly running on underpowered hardware. This has left a rather bad impression. Why didn't MS announce before hand "remember, what you're seeing is running on kits at only a third of XB360's power"?

Low quality? they are unfinished games, running on unfinished hardware. I do agree that MS shoudl have come out and said this before, they started showing everything, but from what i hear that's what they are telling everyone at E3 before they try the games. Still they could have done a better job of this and sony's 1.5 comment.

3) The plants in the audience at E3 were obvious and took a lot of creditability away from MS by all accounts.

huh? Come on, you know this for certain? and even if you do, who really cares?

4) The backwards compatibility, something I thought a valuable addition, isn't really BC. You can't take an existing game you have from your XB library and play it on XB360. They are apparently 'rewriting' games to run on 360. That severely limits BC appeal.

That's rumor that I have no doubt about it being incorrect information, like so many other things that has been wrong thus far.

5) The production of XB is coming to an end this year apparently, with nVidia no longer supplying chips. That fixes the user base at it's current amount. Without true BC XB360 owners won't be buying XB games, which I'd have thought would pee off the developers. Unless they port over to 360, in which case won't the initial games be very weak, little more than current gen with AA at 720p?

again, you don't know how they will handle backwards comaptability. MS doesn't have the source code to reccompile 3rd party games. Being a software company that knows all about dynamic recompilation in wich the CPU calls are converted/translated from x86 to Power PC on the fly (which was used on windows with certain hardware in the past) I seriously doubt MS is going to recompile every game the traditional way when there's clearly no need.

What do others make of MS's position at the mo'?

I think you have a few things wrong, but then again, it won't be clear until after E3.

 

[ANova]

Don't edit my posts just to voice your own opinion. I meant it in a jokingly manner and apparently your love for an inanimate object and company clouded your judgement.

 

[wazoo]

I agree with Qroach.

the early adopters will buy the xbox no matter what and after that, we will be a long way from this E3 to care.

 

[Kolgar]

I think MS has taken a smart, aggressive approach to its next-gen entry. Except it's bungled a few key aspects of the execution.

The worst, for me, is the phony attitude the company has adopted. Trying too hard to be cool and hip, and using all those ridiculous buzzwords at its press conference.

I'm also not hot on the whole "community" thing. You know, I don't want to be part of a "community." I just want to play some feckin' awesome games, and if online aspects make them even better, then great.

But I don't want that to be the focus. I just want a killer game console, emphasis on the games.

 

[Acert93]

The worst, for me, is the phony attitude the company has adopted. Trying too hard to be cool and hip, and using all those ridiculous buzzwords at its press conference.

Nothing bothers me more than someone trying to be something they are not. J Allard strikes me as such. Sorry, hooded sweatshirt under a suit top :? I don't want someone trying to cater to a whim of "cool" or pushes their vision of "cool" but someone who is professional and listens to the consumer. Someone who takes their job seriously, but has fun at it.

I think Ken has fun at his job. Total geek, but his vision works. I think MS's vision is fine also, but the MTV thing they got going is not me. Allard may be very real, but be goofy on your own time please.

To be honest, I hate interviews with any of them though... the only ones I really ever like are the ones with the really transparant figures. Myamoto always seems to be game focused and just says "no comment" John C. and Tim S. always seem to be really up front about what they can and cannot do and why--their proof is in the pudding and know they are hot so not point trying to gloss over any short comings.

As it is reading all these MS and Sony interviews I get a lot of redirection. The Todd H. and Phil H. both to a degree have this. I know it is VERY important to not give sound bites to your competitor and to emphasize the positives, but it is like a game and it annoys me.

I'm also not hot on the whole "community" thing. You know, I don't want to be part of a "community." I just want to play some feckin' awesome games, and if online aspects make them even better, then great.

A community of gamers can enhance the games pretty easily I believe. Online look at budy lists in game, Xfire, and Clans. To varying degrees they improve the game. Spectator modes, contests, clan-like features, Coop, VoIP, Video Chat, are all very cool. Some of the market place may sound odd, but it sounds like it could very well go the way of PC Mods--and that can definately improve the longevity and fun of a game.

I can understand someone not like the community aspect, just like some not liking online, or MMOs, or RPGS, or FPS, or sports genres. The point is options. I think the RABBID online PC community speaks volumes for this feature though.

 

[jvd]

Personaly i find ms had good hardware , good games (the graphics aren't there yet ) and a great online system that will apeal to alot of casuals .

My mom is excited that the x360 will be able to play casino type games . That is all she plays . Those little games on aim and yahoo . So she will be happy . Which means we get to hook it up to the plasma .


My local gamestop is at 42 preorders for the x360. I doubt we will get many more till a month or two before launch. But 42 preorders in a week (we started taking preorders last week) is very good for a system with no price

 

[Acert93]

My mom is excited that the x360 will be able to play casino type games . That is all she plays . Those little games on aim and yahoo . So she will be happy . Which means we get to hook it up to the plasma .

I hear you on that. Same with my mom and to an extent my wife. I wish I could find the survey that noted that women over 30 are one of the biggest gaming demographics. There is a reason Windows ships with minesweeper, hearts, spades, freecell, etc... There are people who really like that stuff. The online word games like scrabble and such really do attract a crowd.

Live, where you can play other people and do VIDEO CHAT, or play and watch a movie... that will appeal to a new market segment. Or in the least give parents another reason to get little Johnny a game machine. "Johnny can play his new Halo and when he goes to bed I can play cards with my sister across the US".

Not for everyone, but definately a nice feature to use on the COUCH.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

I think MS completely screwed up their marketing for the X360 both at MTV and E3.

Having said that, they seem to have put together a system that looks OK and IMO will end up being just as powerful as the PS3, at what appears to be a significantly lower cost for them to manufacture.

Sony, on the other hand, seems to be taking the same road with the PS3 that they tried to take with the horrible failure of the PSX. I'm shocked that about a year ago, they believed a PS2 on Steriods could sell for $700. And now they are coming to the market with a similar strategy, but they have to realize their price point can't be close to $700 and the new system will cost them much more money than the PSX was going to.

So it looks to me like MS is focusing on power for games and their online community (read: additional revenue stream), N is backing off the "power" war and going in a different and "revolutionary" direction with downloadable library of games, and Sony is throwing everything they possibly can into the PS3 making it the most feature rich but also expensive console.

I don't see MS digging themselves into a hole at all. In fact, the only one I see doing that is Sony if consumers decide they don't want to pay for the extra features the PS3 is offering. I wouldn't be surprised to see a scaled-down version of the PS3 at a reduced cost without all the "extras" either before it actually launches or right afterward.

 

[speng]

I think MS completely screwed up their marketing for the X360 both at MTV and E3.

I agree, I would not put that marketting team no where near future Xbox 360 events. I'd review everything else planned for the year and change it.

Consoles are about one thing....games. Though with the advent of the internet, connectivity also.

That is what should be the focus, games. The hip and young will come with whatever great games are provided.

Anyway, they seem to have a great system. If they get the games for it as it seems, they'll do very well.

Speng.

 

[Legend]

other odd moves by MS is taunting their X2 as being an HD-era system when it doesn't even support HD platforms. PS3 supports BD plus a load of other formats. PS3 also supports 1080p which is far better than X2.

finally, what is with requiring gamesr to buy an add-on to use wireless? it reminds me of having to buy a kit for playing everyday DVD movies on Xbox.
I am just dazzled why? why? nobody needs to be put in such a spot. why are they doing this to themselves and to their gamers?

 

[Qroach]

Doesn't support HD platforms like what exactly? There isn't a HD DVD standard yet.

Blue ray is NOT a High Def standard, yet. There's a good chance it won't even be accepted as the standard.

1080p is also not a part of the high def standard (yet), and there are almost ZERO TV's that support that resoloution. Not only that' but 1080p will not be a standard for all PS3 games (despite what they say), you'll get a few that support it, but not many more than that (first party most likely.).

Even still, nothing else will support 1080p (movies or TV) so what's the point in getting a TV that can do that res. Most TV's would just scale the image down (more specifically fixed pixel displays.)
and you wouldn't end up with a good picture, as TV's suck at downscaling a display. Also all television stations will be running in 720p starting in 2008, so even out side of movies that's the only other place you'll see support for that res.




Your falling for the hype and big numbers without seeing the forrest for the trees.

 

[Legend]

that's just it. X2 is offering everything that is available 'now', how can it be called next gen then? Sony is looking ahead. what about 3 years from now? 5years? 7years? and yes, as with PS2, PS3 will still be going by the time the supposedly next installment arrives. also, just because it supports THE highest definition doesn't mean it won't work on 750p TVs. and X2 doesn't support ANY HD platforms. what are you going to use for HD content? everyday DVDs? how far is that going to take you?

and PS3 will use BD though it is still an unaprooved platform. how can you push the envilope otherwise if you keep on using everyday equipment? how did the everyday equipment get to be so wide spread if some one didn't push for it earlier?

Many see X2 as a high-end PC, while PS3 is truely a next-gen console. check with Gameindustry.biz, eurogamer.com, 1up and others.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Just wait till MS unveils a Live enabled Solitaire game.
You'll all be singing a different tune.

 

[a688]

that's just it. X2 is offering everything that is available 'now', how can it be called next gen then? Sony is looking ahead. what about 3 years from now? 5years? 7years? and yes, as with PS2, PS3 will still be going by the time the supposedly next installment arrives. also, just because it supports THE highest definition doesn't mean it won't work on 750p TVs. and X2 doesn't support ANY HD platforms. what are you going to use for HD content? everyday DVDs? how far is that going to take you?

and PS3 will use BD though it is still an unaprooved platform. how can you push the envilope otherwise if you keep on using everyday equipment? how did the everyday equipment get to be so wide spread if some one didn't push for it earlier?

Many see X2 as a high-end PC, while PS3 is truely a next-gen console. check with Gameindustry.biz, eurogamer.com, 1up and others.

Woah there mr anti MS, xbox360 sux. Obviously xbox360 games will be at least 720p, that right there makes it a HD platform. Quit being so ignorant.

 

[Pugger]

Hey Z what is it with Sony making you pay extra for the Hard Drive? Its okay you can buy one their flash memories at launch, 500MB they will probably charge £60 but hey, its PS3.

 

[Qroach]

that's just it. X2 is offering everything that is available 'now', how can it be called next gen then? Sony is looking ahead. what about 3 years from now? 5years? 7years? and yes, as with PS2, PS3 will still be going by the time the supposedly next installment arrives. also, just because it supports THE highest definition doesn't mean it won't work on 750p TVs. and X2 doesn't support ANY HD platforms. what are you going to use for HD content? everyday DVDs? how far is that going to take you?

XB360 is offering more than enough for the next 5 years or more. like I said 1080p isn't a standard yet, and even when it becomes that, I doubt you''ll see many games supporting it. 99% of the games released over the next 5 -10 years is going to be 720p native.

So xbox also supported 720p and look how many games used that resoloution? look at the number pf people buying TV's that can support that. it's a slow adoption rate for teh latest technology that's been around for a very long time. I seriously doubt if you'll see that within the life of these next gen consoles.

and PS3 will use BD though it is still an unaprooved platform. how can you push the envilope otherwise if you keep on using everyday equipment? how did the everyday equipment get to be so wide spread if some one didn't push for it earlier?

and did you not see teh article where they invterview allard and steve ballermer and he specifically say they will support it when it becuase a standard, how do you know you can just replace the DVD drive in xbox 360 just as easy as replacing the face plate?

Many see X2 as a high-end PC, while PS3 is truely a next-gen console. check with Gameindustry.biz, eurogamer.com, 1up and others.

now you're trolling. yeah those are some reputable fan sites you got there

 

[pegisys]

beside bluray sony offers everything thats available 'now', the thing about hd dvd formats is that it's not on the same timeline with consoles like dvd was, dvd's were out and players were out but expensive thats what made buying a console that played dvd's better, it wont be any hd movies out untill sony releases some that will play on the ps3

I myself would rather have a stand alone player, I doubt bluray will be a deciding factor for no one since they are not going to be able to watch any movies soon as they get it

 

[pc999]

Z

Do you know the philosophic question : if there is a three in the midle of the florest but none to see it , the three really exist?

Now you can ask if there is a 1080p bou none to play at there really is a 1080p?

The answer from MS is no, and from Sony is yes.

MS is sayng that it would be wasted trannies the 1080p, because there (really) are no 1080p (think in Europe here almost there is no 720p), so they get 4X AA and cheaper HW.

Sony wants a reason (+1) to people buy theirs 1080p, and gives a feature that very few will use, and pricier HW.

 

[chlovinka]

I think MS completely screwed up their marketing for the X360 both at MTV and E3.

I agree, I would not put that marketting team no where near future Xbox 360 events. I'd review everything else planned for the year and change it.

Consoles are about one thing....games. Though with the advent of the internet, connectivity also.

That is what should be the focus, games. The hip and young will come with whatever great games are provided.

Anyway, they seem to have a great system. If they get the games for it as it seems, they'll do very well.

Speng.

I don't know. Gamers will naturally gravitate towards the games they like; but what about people who don't even own a console? I think what disgusted so many hardcore gamers about the pablum on MTV and their use of buzzwords is that they aren't just marketing to us.

They're trying to pull new gamers into the fold as well.

I think what they're selling to the other people are: community via the gamer card and Live marketplace, individuality via customization, and ease of use.

I know a lot of that probably sounds like bravo sierra market-speak, but look at the popularity of goofy stuff like ring tones, phone face plates, and instant messaging. Those aren't directly parallel to gaming per se, but I think it's part of the market they're trying to tap.

If you haven't read the 360's feature-set here it is: Key Highlights

Anyway, JMO