Hands on pgr3
- Thread starter jvd
- Start date
What you quoted doesn't sound good.
and that doesn't sound good either.
hmm.. this game is mainly in the spotlight for its realistic graphics and now they invited some journalists "just to give us a glimpse of how the gameplay and environments will look in the final game" ..? The fact its still running on beta hardware is hopefull but final hardware should be ready soon.
and that doesn't sound good either.
hmm.. this game is mainly in the spotlight for its realistic graphics and now they invited some journalists "just to give us a glimpse of how the gameplay and environments will look in the final game" ..? The fact its still running on beta hardware is hopefull but final hardware should be ready soon.
MS sure is cutting it close with the 360 huh. I mean i don't expect them to ahve finished games by now, but at least final kits to the developers of one of their biggers games!?
The thing is released in 3 months and it still loks and plays like a mess?
Cutting it very close. I wouldnt' want the to rush into releasing a less-than-amazing PGR3, which at this point is quite possible - though it's only normal for launch games.
I much rather have a non-rushed PGR3 which is not released at launch than a RRV scenario (remember?).
The thing is released in 3 months and it still loks and plays like a mess?
Cutting it very close. I wouldnt' want the to rush into releasing a less-than-amazing PGR3, which at this point is quite possible - though it's only normal for launch games.
I much rather have a non-rushed PGR3 which is not released at launch than a RRV scenario (remember?).
Seems to me that they are on the same schedual as they wre with the xbox
Not only that but they are on a better schedual than the ps2 was . Remember the jap launch games for that system. Yuk
We should have a really good idea of the final graphics of games at tgs . I believe that is the end of sept right ?
Not only that but they are on a better schedual than the ps2 was . Remember the jap launch games for that system. Yuk
We should have a really good idea of the final graphics of games at tgs . I believe that is the end of sept right ?
jvd said:
Oh i remember. Apart from Tekken Tag and SSX, they were a mess. That's why i'm being cautious with launch games. Very very very few launch games have ever been good. Much rather have it in a few months but perfect than at launch but unfinished.
Tekken in japan was a mess . It played well but looked like a headache. It was really bad .
Yea i'm allways worried about launch games.
When i pick up the system I'm getting 2 titles . Kameo and something else . Mabye pdz if its any good . Of course my standards for launch games are much diffrent than any other time in a consoles life .
I remember the nintendo launch ... man that was a mess
I remember the genesis and superness launch which both had 1 good title
Then the saturn (no good titles) psone (battle arena toshidan ) and the n64 with mario 64 and wave race 64
Dreamcast had nothing at the japanese launch , ps2 had nothing , xbox had halo , gamecube had luigi's mansion
Yea i'm allways worried about launch games.
When i pick up the system I'm getting 2 titles . Kameo and something else . Mabye pdz if its any good . Of course my standards for launch games are much diffrent than any other time in a consoles life .
I remember the nintendo launch ... man that was a mess
I remember the genesis and superness launch which both had 1 good title
Then the saturn (no good titles) psone (battle arena toshidan ) and the n64 with mario 64 and wave race 64
Dreamcast had nothing at the japanese launch , ps2 had nothing , xbox had halo , gamecube had luigi's mansion
they better hurry up, especially when its supposed to be one of the biggest launch titles. (or is it not a launch anymore? :?)
from the way they have been releasing screenshots videos and slides, i figured the game would be almost complete by now.
from the way they have been releasing screenshots videos and slides, i figured the game would be almost complete by now.
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seismologist
Regular
Sounds like they should delay this game. But unfortunately I think this is supposed to be one of their bigger system sellers at launch.
I hope they do not rush it. Delay the game if it is not done!
Honestly, Sony's dev kit situation is better IMO (if they launch fall 2006 in the US... Japan can handle a launch with a handful of games). Not availability mind you, but to compare:
PS3 Dev Kit:
-Cell Processor (2.4GHz or 2.8GHz, forget the exact number)
-6800Ultra SLI
-XDR Memory (I believe it was 512MB and now is 1GB)
Downside: 6800 HDR performance weak compared to RSX, Dev kit CELL processor slower than final version, memory bandwidth between GPU<>CPU<>Memory in dev kit is minimal compared to PS3.
360 Alpha Dev Kit
-9800, later X800
-Dual G5s
-Downside: The dev kit GPUs have been a different architecture, lack key features like SM 3.0+/FP10/FP16/Geometry Tesselation, and are significantly slower than Xenos/C1. The Xenos CPUs are In-Order, unlike the G5 Out of Order execution, have significantly less cache which is not shared (G5s had 1MB each, not shared), and in general are very much stripped down compared to the G5, yet on the other hand there are 3 of them and they have beefed up VMX units. The Cache Lock features is also not available, nor the D3D compressions that saves significant bandwidth when the CPU streams to the GPU. And the system also lacks the bandwidth/bandwidth architecture of the final system (UMA with eDRAM on the GPU).
This should not be meant to downplay the importance of dev kits => The SOFTWARE and tools are just as important. And MS dev kits have been around longer and in greater quantity. But devs have also been asked to create games with no ability to test/work with a totally new CPU. Knowing what features are available--and how they perform--is REALLY important when laying the foundation of a game and art direction. Now the ATI Ruby demo running on Xenos is a good indication the chips is very nice and very capable--so I am not too worried for the long term. But in the short term you wonder about the logic of NOT making a chip available to devs early when that chip is very important to the outcome of your games!
Worse yet is the time frame.
Devs have gotten Beta Dev kits in June/July. As Todd Hollensworth noted, they are still underpowered and are literally taking chips out and being asked to put in new/faster chips
Giving them the benefit of the doubt of feature complete Dev Kits by the end of June (and a week or 2 to play with the kit) it seems like launch titles have
Jul / Aug / Sept = > 3 months (October will be the time to go Gold and press the DVDs)
To:
-Get a handle of the new hardware
-Port the code over
-Enable all the graphical features
-Debug the game
-Test, test, test
Basically, their games better be feature/content complete as of June! That is a scary time schedule because it could take 3 months just to port a FINISHED game. These devs are being asked to port a game not yet complete
And then there is the moving target issue. Remember, it was not too much before E3 that the memory got doubled from 256MB to 512MB. Working on a moving target, especially a feature that affects graphics, can really hinder your project. And even up to today they are getting new chips with better performance. How in the world are you supposed to make a AAA+ game when your target platform keeps changing and you have no sure way to test and get an honest feedback on the situation?!!
No doubt PGR3 is a debug version and probably is not running on final HW as they stated. Bizzare is not the only dev making this claim so it is legit.
I just hope if time runs short that the game is delayed.
Honestly, Sony's dev kit situation is better IMO (if they launch fall 2006 in the US... Japan can handle a launch with a handful of games). Not availability mind you, but to compare:
PS3 Dev Kit:
-Cell Processor (2.4GHz or 2.8GHz, forget the exact number)
-6800Ultra SLI
-XDR Memory (I believe it was 512MB and now is 1GB)
Downside: 6800 HDR performance weak compared to RSX, Dev kit CELL processor slower than final version, memory bandwidth between GPU<>CPU<>Memory in dev kit is minimal compared to PS3.
360 Alpha Dev Kit
-9800, later X800
-Dual G5s
-Downside: The dev kit GPUs have been a different architecture, lack key features like SM 3.0+/FP10/FP16/Geometry Tesselation, and are significantly slower than Xenos/C1. The Xenos CPUs are In-Order, unlike the G5 Out of Order execution, have significantly less cache which is not shared (G5s had 1MB each, not shared), and in general are very much stripped down compared to the G5, yet on the other hand there are 3 of them and they have beefed up VMX units. The Cache Lock features is also not available, nor the D3D compressions that saves significant bandwidth when the CPU streams to the GPU. And the system also lacks the bandwidth/bandwidth architecture of the final system (UMA with eDRAM on the GPU).
This should not be meant to downplay the importance of dev kits => The SOFTWARE and tools are just as important. And MS dev kits have been around longer and in greater quantity. But devs have also been asked to create games with no ability to test/work with a totally new CPU. Knowing what features are available--and how they perform--is REALLY important when laying the foundation of a game and art direction. Now the ATI Ruby demo running on Xenos is a good indication the chips is very nice and very capable--so I am not too worried for the long term. But in the short term you wonder about the logic of NOT making a chip available to devs early when that chip is very important to the outcome of your games!
Worse yet is the time frame.
Devs have gotten Beta Dev kits in June/July. As Todd Hollensworth noted, they are still underpowered and are literally taking chips out and being asked to put in new/faster chips
Giving them the benefit of the doubt of feature complete Dev Kits by the end of June (and a week or 2 to play with the kit) it seems like launch titles haveJul / Aug / Sept = > 3 months (October will be the time to go Gold and press the DVDs)
To:
-Get a handle of the new hardware
-Port the code over
-Enable all the graphical features
-Debug the game
-Test, test, test
Basically, their games better be feature/content complete as of June! That is a scary time schedule because it could take 3 months just to port a FINISHED game. These devs are being asked to port a game not yet complete
And then there is the moving target issue. Remember, it was not too much before E3 that the memory got doubled from 256MB to 512MB. Working on a moving target, especially a feature that affects graphics, can really hinder your project. And even up to today they are getting new chips with better performance. How in the world are you supposed to make a AAA+ game when your target platform keeps changing and you have no sure way to test and get an honest feedback on the situation?!!
No doubt PGR3 is a debug version and probably is not running on final HW as they stated. Bizzare is not the only dev making this claim so it is legit.
I just hope if time runs short that the game is delayed.
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/tekkentagtournament/screenindex.htmljvd said:
now that is a bit over-reacting, doesn't look so bad to me... and its from 2000.
ofcourse, im already used to see alot better looking games, but in 2000 that was it, the perfect looking tekken.
PC was about to have GeforceDDR by the time ps2 was doing that... after Gf DDR nothing was the same, but ps2 had its glory between 99 and 2001
horrible now, but sweet back then
According to jvd, Tekken 3 looked better than Tekken Tag, which should tell you everything you need to know about his credibility regarding that matter. And while it'd be a shame with a rushed PGR3 for sure, I think it's still more important to have a couple high profile games ready at launch, rushed or not.
Why would they have 1GB of memory in the devkit when the final system is not going to half as much, I thing having to much ram can cause more issues than having a weaker spec, but I do agree the ps3's devkit is in better shap then the 360's
When most devs have interviews they always say it's the last 2 months when the game realy comes together, so I think they still may have time if all the art is done and they just have to optimize
pegisys said:
You're not using the additional memory for game content, it is used for debugging and other tools. A dev kit is more than final hardware, it is a tool to analyse your game code and performance. At least that is my understanding of dev kits. They are a platform for development, much more than just a console.
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People, read the topic, can't you?[/Yoda]
Subject of the thread: Hands on pgr3
You can discuss about the XeDK versions and their impact on the developement process of PGR3, but leave the PS2, DC, PS3, Whatever, out of the thread, please.
Subject of the thread: Hands on pgr3
You can discuss about the XeDK versions and their impact on the developement process of PGR3, but leave the PS2, DC, PS3, Whatever, out of the thread, please.
Last edited by a moderator:
scooby_dooby
Legend
Guys this is an old build, presumably it's the same build that the BlimBlim guy from xboxdye recently played, this is what he had to say:
"Let me state first that this was a rather old build, running on the oldest version of the black beta kits. The game was very obviously in development, with lots of graphical bugs and a very low frame rate, something like 10 or 15 FPS.
But it already looked so incredible! This was running on the same Tokyo track as shown in the latest trailer, and except for the numerous visual bugs and the very low resolution textures of this debug build, it looked exactly the same. Only this time it was playable! "
"Let me state first that this was a rather old build, running on the oldest version of the black beta kits. The game was very obviously in development, with lots of graphical bugs and a very low frame rate, something like 10 or 15 FPS.
But it already looked so incredible! This was running on the same Tokyo track as shown in the latest trailer, and except for the numerous visual bugs and the very low resolution textures of this debug build, it looked exactly the same. Only this time it was playable! "
didn't ps2 launched in 99 japan... ?jvd said:that is from the american version. The japanese version launched in march of that year was a jaggy mess with tons of shimmering .
Remember ps2 launched in march of 2000. Not in october of 2000 . Your not looking at launch titles
even so, i never heard such a thing about TTT having different versions.
