Halo: Reach

[ShadowWolf64]

Bungie has never failed in the multiplayer aspect of their Halo games so im expecting a brilliant mp experience from them as usual.Supposedly, they are implementing a Perks like system into mp and done correctly, it could be a great thing for Halo's mp.Another thing that I read is customizable downloadable armor as that could be a innovative feature if its included in the game..All in all, Halo Reach could easily be one of the best looking games in this console generation and I hope Bungie pulls it off...

 

[ShadowWolf64]

I'd be surprised if anyone on this forum seriously thought the in game (in race) car detail was going to be the same as the PR shots. Pretty much everyone was in agreement that the cars would not look as good as the PR shots in a race. I think you're barking up the wrong tree there.

People also like to conviently forget that Halo 3 was orginally targetted at and started developement as an original Xbox 1 title. Spending approximately 1/3-/12 of the engine developement time on Xbox.

Halo Reach will be the first Bungie title where the engine was targetted at the X360. Then again there seems to be a weird assumption on these forums that everything is possible for a PS3 dev because they are all better and above average, while X360 devs are lazy, no-talent slobs that couldn't code their way out of a hole in the ground.

Or at least that's the impression I get reading these forums.

I'll give Bungie the same benefit of the doubt I gave Guerilla Games and Naughty dog...

Regards,
SB

Even then, its still one of the better looking games of this console generation with perhaps the best lighting as well..Not bad for a game that was originally meant to be an xbox 1 game...Every good developer is going to be doubted at some point so its understandable but at the same time they should also be given the benefit of the doubt too..Anyways, for the multiplayer portion of the game, what gameplay features would you guys like to see?

Personally, I'd love a more in-depth melee system with 60% destructible enviornments along with cooking grenades and creating booby traps as well..Booby traps could work very well in objective gametypes like CTF, Oddball, Assault, etc... Please guys, I'd love to hear some of your ideas for Reach's mp component...

 

[Tchock]

After having played the realtime 'beach'-landing level from KZ2 yesterday, I watched the Halo: Reach trailer again today.

The game should be perfectly possible, if you take away the AA and some texture filtering;
I realized it doesn't do anything not possible outside of 'previous generation graphics'.

Saying Halo Reach would be the best looking xbox 360 game, would be kind of an insult to other xbox titles, should the game get graphics same as, or below the trailer.

Trying to move the goalposts now are we?

Anyway perks? Seriously? Akimbo 1887s made me hate MW2 as I started playing it much later than most. They're nice but make sure they have proper balancing ala Team Fortress 2's unlockables.

 

[semitope]

Anyone else think perks are just a cheap way of adding depth to your MP? You could build maps that need strategy, weapons, team dynamics into your game that would not need "perks" to bring in variety. Its needed in games like mw because it would be same old Unreal/quake gameplay otherwise.

Spending approximately 1/3-/12 of the engine developement time on Xbox.

Am I reading that right? 1/3 to 1/12? So might be significant and might not be significant? Halo 3 came out 2 years after the release of the 360, many games started development before the console targeted was released... soo.....

 

[Acert93]

Anyone else think perks are just a cheap way of adding depth to your MP? You could build maps that need strategy, weapons, team dynamics into your game that would not need "perks" to bring in variety. Its needed in games like mw because it would be same old Unreal/quake gameplay otherwise.

The idea is that it is an RPG-lite where you can tailor your abilities to your preferred style of play.

It is a different design philosophy from, say, spawning guns and power ups (aka "perks") in fields, buildings, and secret places. And all those "class" based shooters take yet another approach. In every case it is a design decision that is independent of the balancing issues as they concepts are different--especially when the gameplay objectives are quite divergent. e.g. A traditional "balanced" shooter would suck for Battlefield (classes, instead of "well placed" spawns) is much more authentic and fun imo.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Am I reading that right? 1/3 to 1/12? So might be significant and might not be significant? Halo 3 came out 2 years after the release of the 360, many games started development before the console targeted was released... soo.....

Heh, I should fix that it should be 1/3-1/2. It's also been stated that some of the art assets are exactly the same as was originally going into the original Xbox as they didn't have time to upgrade all the art assets for X360.

Regards,
SB

 

[Acert93]

Per the previous discussion comparing this to the FM3 pre-release footage, I think the analogy is probably right. FM3 was using in-engine assets rendered at at high LODs and higher resolutions and scaled down. FM3's gameplay has the same technology and assets but fidelity is obviously lowered.

Take out the supersampling effect from the Halo Reach video (which impacts edge, texture, and shader aliasing) and factor in LOD issues and I think we are seeing what Bungie is aiming at. Which ain't bad necessarily. It had a lot of light sources, I like the stylistic human models, and the shadows had some small issues (e.g. filtering could be seen) the general impression was excellent (some of the best shadows seen this gen; FM3 seems to have very similar shadows so I am optimistic here).

What is more of a concern is aliasing. Lots of lights could cause lots of killer aliasing. Likewise all the sprite grass could end up being an aliased mess; if they are going for a bit of a complex lighting model I am not sure that stuff will look very good (stuck out like a sore thumb to me in the trailer). I am hopeful texture filtering (and not a negative LOD bias) finds its way into the game and that Bungie addresses the aliasing issues with MSAA (or other technique other than MB and DOF).

But all I really care about is the gameplay. ODST (oh how I loath you!) shows you can have large battlefield with dozens and dozens of covenant on screen. If Bungie can create a squad based game design that is slightly more tactical while not turning into Halo:GRAW/RB6/GoW2 I will be happy. I like the Halo gameplay, the gunplay/melee/nades and vehicles are some of the best design balances I have seen in a game, and the AI is actually good/fun.

Toss in traditional Bungie focus on social features (4 player online coop and the like) I will be happy.

In terms of features there are two must haves missing from Bungie games.

* Coop game browser.

* Custom game browser.

Look Bungie, if I setup a killer custom game--because you give me great MP mod abilities and a decent map modifier--but no one can find me, then those features are almost pointless.

 

[ShadowWolf64]

Per the previous discussion comparing this to the FM3 pre-release footage, I think the analogy is probably right. FM3 was using in-engine assets rendered at at high LODs and higher resolutions and scaled down. FM3's gameplay has the same technology and assets but fidelity is obviously lowered.

Take out the supersampling effect from the Halo Reach video (which impacts edge, texture, and shader aliasing) and factor in LOD issues and I think we are seeing what Bungie is aiming at. Which ain't bad necessarily. It had a lot of light sources, I like the stylistic human models, and the shadows had some small issues (e.g. filtering could be seen) the general impression was excellent (some of the best shadows seen this gen; FM3 seems to have very similar shadows so I am optimistic here).

What is more of a concern is aliasing. Lots of lights could cause lots of killer aliasing. Likewise all the sprite grass could end up being an aliased mess; if they are going for a bit of a complex lighting model I am not sure that stuff will look very good (stuck out like a sore thumb to me in the trailer). I am hopeful texture filtering (and not a negative LOD bias) finds its way into the game and that Bungie addresses the aliasing issues with MSAA (or other technique other than MB and DOF).

But all I really care about is the gameplay. ODST (oh how I loath you!) shows you can have large battlefield with dozens and dozens of covenant on screen. If Bungie can create a squad based game design that is slightly more tactical while not turning into Halo:GRAW/RB6/GoW2 I will be happy. I like the Halo gameplay, the gunplay/melee/nades and vehicles are some of the best design balances I have seen in a game, and the AI is actually good/fun.

Toss in traditional Bungie focus on social features (4 player online coop and the like) I will be happy.

In terms of features there are two must haves missing from Bungie games.

* Coop game browser.

* Custom game browser.

Look Bungie, if I setup a killer custom game--because you give me great MP mod abilities and a decent map modifier--but no one can find me, then those features are almost pointless.

Excellent post Joshua..Yeah, it doesn't matter how great the graphics look in a game if the gameplay is boring and uninspired.As far as gameplay goes, I think making the melee attacks more in-depth along with little things like cooking grenades etc could go along way into making Reach's mp a bit more tactical then previous Halo games.Lastly, I have two questions for you and I hope you can answer them.What are the chances that Bungie is adding destructible enviornments in mp ala Battlefield Bad Company 2? Secondly, what form of AA should they use for Reach and which one would bring out the performance out of their engine?

 

[NRP]

I'm not sure how difficult/resource intensive destructible environments would be, but I think they could add a lot to the immersion of Reach. I was pretty impressed by the destructibility in BF:BC, even though it appeared to be the same every time. Perhaps those 1GB dev kits can free up a little more runtime memory for stuff like this?

In the end, I'm not at all worried about what Reach will look like. Regarding gameplay changes, I'm not really sure what I'd accept/reject at this point. I realize that it's probably time for some changes to the gameplay formula, but I want the game to still "feel" like Halo. That's the most important thing for me.

Because let's face it, back whacking Josh never gets old.

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

here's something interesting, Reach is Already Fully Playable from start to finish.
http://xboxevolved.e-mpire.com/article/Halo_Reach/5965.html

i guess that would mean that they started development a long time ago.

 

[NRP]

So they've got 8-10 months to polish/tweak it? Is it normal to have a game that far along this early?

I suppose it makes sense because the beta is only a few months away. On second thought, if they started right after H3, they'd have about 3 years into it, which isn't unreasonable I guess.

 

[Rangers]

So they've got 8-10 months to polish/tweak it? Is it normal to have a game that far along this early?

I suppose it makes sense because the beta is only a few months away. On second thought, if they started right after H3, they'd have about 3 years into it, which isn't unreasonable I guess.

Well first, we'd have to assume the rumors are true. I dont see any particularly ironclad source on that.

Also, the guy who leaked the alleged Reach screens that started this, claimed the game was very unfinished when he played it (one thing I recall was he said NPC voices aren't in). But of course, that's basically just a rumor too.

It's true though, Bungie does have a recent history with Halo 3 and ODST of having games "in the can" by summer and releasing them in September.

Cant say I particularly like that as a strategy. It seems the biggest blockbusters release in Nov, and need all the last minute dev time they can get. It almost seems like they didn't try hard enough if the games are done so early.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

On the contrary, having all the engine stuff and campaign done months in advance leaves time to polish, bugfix, QA, etc. for a solid release. In the meantime they can do the voice work and other non-engine feature related stuff.

Compare the release of say Halo 3 to something like Borderlands, DAO, Sacred 2, etc. One a solid release, the other plagued by all sorts of bugs and what not.

Companies adding in features and working on the engine or campaign til the last day pretty much means it's going to be buggy at launch. Or have inconsistent frame rate. Or any number of possible problems that you just didn't have enough time to QA.

Regards,
SB

 

[scently]

Well first, we'd have to assume the rumors are true. I dont see any particularly ironclad source on that.

Also, the guy who leaked the alleged Reach screens that started this, claimed the game was very unfinished when he played it (one thing I recall was he said NPC voices aren't in). But of course, that's basically just a rumor too.

It's true though, Bungie does have a recent history with Halo 3 and ODST of having games "in the can" by summer and releasing them in September.

Cant say I particularly like that as a strategy. It seems the biggest blockbusters release in Nov, and need all the last minute dev time they can get. It almost seems like they didn't try hard enough if the games are done so early.

Actually, you can listen to the 1up podcast linked in the article, from what I understand, the game can be played from start to finish, but I would assume that other stuff like polishing, tweaking, voice work are still, work in progress. They never claimed that all work on the game is done.

 

[Rangers]

Actually, you can listen to the 1up podcast linked in the article, from what I understand, the game can be played from start to finish, but I would assume that other stuff like polishing, tweaking, voice work are still, work in progress. They never claimed that all work on the game is done.

Yeah but I listen to listen up podcast, and often David Ellis and company are stunningly ignorant of the industry :smile:

Anyways does sound like Bungie is shooting for yet another September release date. I dont think it builds hype like a Nov date, but OTOH I'm happy to play Halo sooner.

 

[assen]

Also, the guy who leaked the alleged Reach screens that started this, claimed the game was very unfinished when he played it (one thing I recall was he said NPC voices aren't in).

Voice recordings are something that usually arrives in the last few weeks or even days before goldmaster (they depend on finalized text + translation + lots of actual work in the studios all over the world, and virtually nothing depends on them), you can't judge progress by their absence.

 

[Malibu]

Yeah but I listen to listen up podcast, and often David Ellis and company are stunningly ignorant of the industry :smile:

Confirmed on the latest Bungie podcast from start to finish the campaign is in some playable state. All the spaces in the post-architect stage, encounters starting to get figured out.

 

[obonicus]

Does that really mean anything, though? I remember in the Wired Halo 3 article how Bungie continued to heavily tweak the level design well into development, paying particular attention to playtesters.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It just means the level layout is done. Engine features are probably locked down.

Now they are focusing on playtesting, balancing, polishing, optimizing, etc. So part of that would be encounter strength, encounter locations, etc...

Regards,
SB

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Yeah, and the usual Halo encounters are quite complex with each group having territories to defend, attack, retreat to, and various battle conditions to activate these behaviors, and so on. Not to mention whatever new stuff Bungie has cooked up for Reach...