Halflife 2 to be nVidia only????
- Thread starter martrox
- Start date
This sounds ridiculous. If people want easy development, aim for consoles. Perhaps Valve thinks they can make up what they lose in ATi PC customers with nVidia Xbox customers. I still think it's a stupid move, but not altogether surprising, given the problems ATi cards have had in the past with HL.
It won't be purely an Nvidia game it doesnt make economic sense, if its an out of this world blockbuster and would sell say 2 million copies, being a Nvidia only game you can immediately cut out 1 million of those sales minimum.
So right off the bat you're losing $40 million in sales, not to mention the millions you'd lose in angry returns from the guy with the SiS Xabre card who didnt see the massive Nvidia only sticker on the box.
So you're looking at a loss of $40+ mil minimum in sales, cash that Nvidia would have to fork over to Valve, plus a huge hit to Valves standing and PR.
With Nvidia barely meeting EPS estimates theres no way they could drop $40 million on this venture.
So right off the bat you're losing $40 million in sales, not to mention the millions you'd lose in angry returns from the guy with the SiS Xabre card who didnt see the massive Nvidia only sticker on the box.
So you're looking at a loss of $40+ mil minimum in sales, cash that Nvidia would have to fork over to Valve, plus a huge hit to Valves standing and PR.
With Nvidia barely meeting EPS estimates theres no way they could drop $40 million on this venture.
Rubish news! 
Just think about it: Do you really think that most of the time making a game is about having to optimize for more than one card vendor?
Think about the massive amount of time that goes into making the engine itself (or adapting custom code to a given engine), all the content, art, animation, sound/music, AI, netcode, quality assurance and what gives.
Wake up guys! If a game developer takes the offer of going one-vendor it's because they have been payed through the nose for it - and how many of the truely creative people in this business would like to give up their freedom for a boring, steady income? Is this what fuels awesome and innovative thinking?
No, if there is anything to this newsbite it's only that Half-Life2 will be showcased with an nVidia optimized engine. The launched game is another story.
Only crap games that would otherwise die horrible in the free market could be in question here (as playable tech demos).
Just think about it: Do you really think that most of the time making a game is about having to optimize for more than one card vendor?
Think about the massive amount of time that goes into making the engine itself (or adapting custom code to a given engine), all the content, art, animation, sound/music, AI, netcode, quality assurance and what gives.
Wake up guys! If a game developer takes the offer of going one-vendor it's because they have been payed through the nose for it - and how many of the truely creative people in this business would like to give up their freedom for a boring, steady income? Is this what fuels awesome and innovative thinking?
No, if there is anything to this newsbite it's only that Half-Life2 will be showcased with an nVidia optimized engine. The launched game is another story.
Only crap games that would otherwise die horrible in the free market could be in question here (as playable tech demos).
Testiculus Giganticus
Newcomer
I think this is being blown out of proportion.Take into account the fact that there have been NO OFFICIAL announcements about HL2 and that it wouldn`t be economically feasible for valve to do an exclusive title like that.Also think that nv is not interested in paying huge sums for exclusivity of the finished title -a demo on the other hand......
The way its going, we'll see Half Life 2 the same time we see the 5800 ultra. *cough*
Are they ever going to release TF2? EVER?
Are they ever going to release TF2? EVER?
gokickrocks
Regular
i disliked Valve ever since they gotten rid of Dynamix
Tribes was the best game ever
Tribes was the best game ever
I don't mean to cause a dispute, but has anyone stopped to consider the demographics of the average Half-Life player? I realize that many here are very passionate about a certain brand and like to feel that there is significant draw to the brand name itself, but I can't help but feel that these people truely are a niche and nothing more.
Beyond this, from what I remember of the HL demographics (which I've just remember where I saw the numbers and they're from 2000) the number of people using nVidia based PC's composed ~70% of the Half-Life base. www.3dfx.com
Now, that's significant in absolute number and I'd assume that the margin has increased as nVidia's OEM (lets face it, thats where the volume is) and even add-in board number have been steadily increasing since 2000.
So, while I'm not saying this is true - if it is, I can envision how it could be a great move for both parties involved (just not the consumer). Valve preserves ~70% + of it's base and gains the inevitable XBox Next launch title (or close to launch) aswell as any perks nVidia or MS throws it's way.
nVidia gains much, much more. Not only do they gain a massive title - but this policy, if truely implimented, is brilliant. Why fight ATi based on economies of scale and technical ability when you don't have to? From their PoV, screw the consumer and use up their developer capital which far outweighs ATi's or Matrox's. By fracturing the marketplace they cause consumers to pick; and most consumers just want to play games.
Beyond this, from what I remember of the HL demographics (which I've just remember where I saw the numbers and they're from 2000) the number of people using nVidia based PC's composed ~70% of the Half-Life base. www.3dfx.com
Now, that's significant in absolute number and I'd assume that the margin has increased as nVidia's OEM (lets face it, thats where the volume is) and even add-in board number have been steadily increasing since 2000.
So, while I'm not saying this is true - if it is, I can envision how it could be a great move for both parties involved (just not the consumer). Valve preserves ~70% + of it's base and gains the inevitable XBox Next launch title (or close to launch) aswell as any perks nVidia or MS throws it's way.
nVidia gains much, much more. Not only do they gain a massive title - but this policy, if truely implimented, is brilliant. Why fight ATi based on economies of scale and technical ability when you don't have to? From their PoV, screw the consumer and use up their developer capital which far outweighs ATi's or Matrox's. By fracturing the marketplace they cause consumers to pick; and most consumers just want to play games.
gokickrocks
Regular
Nagorak said:
doh!
Vince said:
It isn't only brand loyalists that will be affected. BTW, I think you ignore the impact of enthusiasts on word of mouth sales influence. Every place I've worked has had social interaction based on people seeking advice from enthusiasts (car enthusiasts, computer enthusiasts, investment enthusiasts, whatever)...what I think is a minority is enthusiasts who see nothing wrong with Valve doing something like this.
So assuming 70% of potential customers for HL 2 in 2003/4 is indicated by those 2000 figures, you think this is a good move on Valve's part? It makes it a potentially successful short term money collection strategy. There are many such strategies that ignore consequences...how does that make them good ones?
Hmm...you go from Valve's survey results and incorporate non-specified marketshare growth, ignoring things like the share penetration for the 9700 family in 3dmark results in the short time period of release. Basing conclusions on either by themself seems incomplete...if I concentrated on ATI's DX 9 capable marketshare (something pretty close to 100%), mightn't I be able to argue that that is more pertinent to which vendor to choose for exclusive advanced feature support? Or, at the very atleast, which vendor not to ignore (since ATI isn't trying to garner exclusive support).
Short term. Valve's success hasn't been a short term success, so I don't think they gain much (unless it is a humungous pile of money and they are the type of people who only want/need that type of gain, despite the basis of their success with half-life over the years). They depend a lot on community good will, and to the contrary of a "good move" it seems to me exceedingly foolish to squander that goodwill. But, given past behavior and monetary compensation, it does seem possible.
I think your "preserves 70% + of it's base" is built on sand. That doesn't mean I don't think your description of Valve's actions is possible, just that I have no idea why you think it is a good idea for them, unless they intend to retire from PC game making. That seems possible from the angle of the X box rumor, but that's the antithesis of Valve's past PC success (Don't see how Microsoft would gain from exclusivity instead of just a franchise with the Halo franchise already in place for X box such that they would throw perks at Valve for this approach).
Heh, "brilliant" you say. What's so brilliant about buying marketshare instead of achieving it by successful engineering? It is a risky proposition limited by the availability of funding.
From the standpoint of defining nVidia's actions, you make good (but fairly obvious) points. From the standpoint of saying these actions are "brilliant" for nvidia or a "good move" for Valve, I don't see your support holding together. I do agree it is a "good move" in the current situation for nvidia, but that possibility has been pretty evident for a while and seems a given in the discussion.
"far outweighs"...hmm...where are you getting these evaluations?
nVidia seems hell bent on alienating their (non-blind) enthusiasts by replacing performance leadership with PR initiatives. Since this fits my view of their actions regarding the nv30, I tend to agree this makes it possible that this rumor is true, but I don't think consumers are the only ones who will be penalized for such an approach. <-Cue the now obligatory 3dfx parallel.
In the article that sparked all this off is the following statement:
We have been aware for some time that both ATi and nVidia have been courting the publishers and developers of AAA PC games, trying to gain card-exclusivity.
So both nvidia and Ati have been attempting to get these kinds of deals, it just means that nvidia ave been more successful at it. I'm sure ATi will score the same kind of deal... eventually.
We have been aware for some time that both ATi and nVidia have been courting the publishers and developers of AAA PC games, trying to gain card-exclusivity.
So both nvidia and Ati have been attempting to get these kinds of deals, it just means that nvidia ave been more successful at it. I'm sure ATi will score the same kind of deal... eventually.
BoardBonobo said:
I don't believe everything written on the internet is true. Do you have some reason to trust the statement as the literal truth that I'm not aware of?
How has ATI been attempting to do this? Are we talking about Big Honking Ads (in which case you seem to have pretty solid corroboration given what others have mentioned), or feature exclusivity? It is the feature exclusivity that I don't get....ATi's base of support is tied to cross vendor API specifications.
It is nVidia that seems to be making the attempt to leverage customization initiatives to exclude competition as an alternative to offering hardware that competes well on its own. I really don't see how it is possible for ATI except by pushing floating point precision usage such that nv30-34 performance is unacceptable, but pushing PS 2.0, or ARB fragment programs, doesn't seem to quite warrant being called exclusive...nvidia not being able to compete well (except maybe with nv35) would be nvidia's failing, not ATI preventing competition.
I guess we'll find out, though.
Anyone remember the original Half Life release. There was a special pre-release version (roughly consisting of the first quarter of the game) bundled (exclusivly, I think) with nvidia tnt cards two months prior to retail launch. Personally, I think, that is what we are going to see.
heh i don't see the problem. I just will never buy another game from them. Saves me money in the long run. Oh and none of my family or friends will either since i build all thier systems and i put the best cards in thier systems . Which happen to be ati cards right now. (image quality is allways more important.)
Similar threads
