Half-Life 3

Yup no colored lighting in Quake 2 unless you are running a 3D card. (the game may look better without it!!)


(more of this retro article)
http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/5b575ecd065c44f0097d2c304cc8a3e3/

Does Half Life really "stream" data in? It seems more like it just has many small segments of the levels and thus they load very fast.

Yeah the software renderer of Quake 2 was pretty pathetic. I was working in retail at the time and would use Quake 2 to convince people to buy a 3D accelerator (usually 3dfx, but would mention the Riva 128 and TNT when people couldn't afford a 3dfx card). Amazing easy when you go...This is 3D without a 3D card (Quake 2 in 2D) and this is what it's like with a Voodoo Graphics/Voodoo II (Quake on a V1 or V2).

People would be, "oooooh." And quite often there was an easy 3D card sale.

Regards,
SB
 
Yeah, Half Life was one of the first games to make extensive use of designer placed navigation nodes to drive its AI, so that they were able to move around using cover a lot, and flank you and so on. Although it was also possible to sit in places that the designers have not predicted, and thus have the soldiers run past you, with not enough nodes to find an attack position.

The next significant addition was Halo, which simulated sight and knowledge for the AI. It also had some more complex types of behaviors and larger scale goals (occupy enemy territory or retreat depending on morale).

But the point is that HL1's AI was a big step forward...
 
Yeah the software renderer of Quake 2 was pretty pathetic.

I wouldn't call it "pathetic". I'm sure Carmack saw the writing on the wall and didn't feel it was worth their time to bring the software renderer up to spec. The lack of a software renderer in Q3 is more evidence of this.

Yes I did. See it is simple. I installed it. I had a graphics card and as such I had colored lighting. It isn't really that complicated and I didn't go, "Man this hardware acceleration is terrible I sure wish I had a software renderer." In fact I felt quite the opposite.

Now you're just being facetious. If you already had a 3D accelerator, yes it made no difference but back in 98 this wasn't as common. The fact there were 3D games up to 2000 being released with software renderers is enough to see many people didn't have one two years prior. With H-L (unlike Quake 2, Hexen 2 and other games of the time) you didn't have to run out and buy a 200-300 dollar video card to play the game TWIMTBP. :)

Does Half Life really "stream" data in? It seems more like it just has many small segments of the levels and thus they load very fast.

No, it doesn't stream but it was a first stab at it. At the time the loadings were already quick but now they're nearly-instantaneous. My point being that it was a completely different paradigm than the usual for the time (and still often today) of loading massive amounts of data as a discrete level.
 
The AI in HL was amazing for the time, even surpassing the AI in unreal quite a bit.
Monsters in Unreal had AI?

Back in the day I always wanted to cave in the skull of people who mooned over Unreal's supposedly awesome AI with a frying pan, in reality Unreal's AI was complete PANTS.

The mobs CHEATED, that's all they had in the way of AI. The Skaarj had flawless aim regardless of distance - they literally COULD NOT MISS with their ranged shots. They also were able to dodge sniper rifle bullets (!) even if they weren't looking at you and didn't know you were shooting at them when you pulled the trigger... (!!!)

That's CRAP AI. No other word for it.

HL's soldier AI wasn't perfect - they had infinite ammo and grenades just for starters and were too good at knowing where you were even if they couldn't see you - but at least the AI had a semblance of realism attached to it. Unreal's was just fake through and through.

Edit:
Oh by the way Swaaye,
Unreal's software renderer did NOT have texture filtering. It was merely a form of crude dithering. Personally I didn't feel it made any difference at all, as typically you don't stand around with your nose pushed up against a wall admiring the texturing in these types of games... ;) Unreal was more like a tech demo to me. It did not have a truly compelling story, but felt more like computer game levels strung together. Quake II - panned by some as it may be - had a lot more atmosphere in my opinion.
 
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Unreal had incredible mood at that time, the visuals, settings and music combined together were something unprecedented at that time. Oh, and some of the levels had insane scale, towering heights and incredible view distances.
 
Unreal had incredible mood at that time, the visuals, settings and music combined together were something unprecedented at that time. Oh, and some of the levels had insane scale, towering heights and incredible view distances.

I think the atmosphere is what really drove the Unreal story. Yes the tech was great, but the visuals as you trekked across this huge world was what really impressed. There was a whole alien world to explore, and even today few games have captured that feeling. I don't think even Epic have come near those heights again.
 
Speaking of a.i someone was planning to launch an a.i chip

Nowadays the AI's most CPU intensive part is still the raycasting in the 3D environment. It's used for navigation, for determining whether the AI can see something or not, whether the enemy can see behind something or not (then it's cover for the AI) and so on.
The Thief series in particular had some very complex AI sensor systems which si why there were only a few enemies in most areas.

Other parts like decision making or higher level script execution aren't taking that many calculations. So there's no need to build AI specific acceleration as processing power like that can be used for almost anything and it's a waste if any hardware like that gets specialized in a system.
 
Now you're just being facetious. If you already had a 3D accelerator, yes it made no difference but back in 98 this wasn't as common. The fact there were 3D games up to 2000 being released with software renderers is enough to see many people didn't have one two years prior. With H-L (unlike Quake 2, Hexen 2 and other games of the time) you didn't have to run out and buy a 200-300 dollar video card to play the game TWIMTBP. :)

I had a 3D accelerator though prior to getting Q2. So it was pretty much that way for me. In fact I wasn't even aware at the time that in software mode I would not have had colored lighting. I just thought that it looked spiffy when I started.

I also agree with Grall I really liked the mood in Q2. But these are all just opinions. I did love the mood in HL1 as well, some parts just annoyed me.
 
HL had me sold at the tram ride. You aren't simply plopped down in a new environment and sent off with a gun and list of goals. The long tram ride not only functions as an atmospheric aid, but an expositional one. Without forcing you to go through a bunch of written or spoken dialogue, it gives you enough information to roughly put together the who/what/where/when/why of your character and setting. You are, in essence, experiencing the exposition prior to the game actually getting underway. It certainly wasn't the first game to do this, but it was probably the first FPS to do it as well as it did.

I really liked the overlapping map segments in HL which really aided in the environment feeling connected. Pretty much every other game I had played prior to that had you walk through some sort of door or obvious load point which removed the ability for you to turn back and see where it was you just came from. The mechanics behind the loading scheme are technically no different than having physical doors that trigger the load of a new map segment, but it does prevent the player from feeling like they're pulled out of the game world temporarily. After playing through the game from beginning to end, aside from a handful of sudden breaks, you can just about trace your path back in your mind to the very beginning of your tram ride to work that morning.

The ambient soundtrack was excellent too, very appropriate in helping the mood of the game. Probably one of my favorite game soundtracks.

I would also say that in all of the above aspects, HL2 was a weaker showing. The game felt very disjointed by trying to pack so many new things into the game. You had a car level, boat level, scary horror level, etc. The intro to the game was no where near enough to make the story have any sense to it, and by the end you don't even have a proper resolution. The game just has you constantly moving through various environments and never quite takes the time to slow down and let you care about what's going on.
 
Unreal was more like a tech demo to me. It did not have a truly compelling story, but felt more like computer game levels strung together. Quake II - panned by some as it may be - had a lot more atmosphere in my opinion.
We'll have to agree to disagree because I don't like Quake 2 much. Well, I like the first few levels, but it gets old really fast. Quake 1's single player is just as lacking but is much more varied (albeit rather ridiculously). The atmosphere is decent though Unreal is at least it's equal in that way IMO however.

Unreal was a major turning point for Epic in so many ways and that aspect alone is enough to make me appreciate the game. The story behind its development is just crazy stuff and it's almost amazing that it worked out at all. It is also one of the first straight forward shooters to clearly beat id at their own game IMO. I love how it has a sort of demoscene feel to it thanks to the music and the visuals. Unreal was a risky project for them and the whole game seems to embody this IMO. There is little that I dislike about Unreal.

Also if you want to ridicule AI, don't leave Quake 2 out of that lol.

HL had me sold at the tram ride. You aren't simply plopped down in a new environment and sent off with a gun and list of goals. The long tram ride not only functions as an atmospheric aid, but an expositional one....

I would also say that in all of the above aspects, HL2 was a weaker showing. The game felt very disjointed by trying to pack so many new things into the game....The game just has you constantly moving through various environments and never quite takes the time to slow down and let you care about what's going on.
Yup.
 
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HL was fantastic. I remember my first encounter with the soldiers like it was yesterday. What blew me away was the cutting edge AI and how they surpressed, flanked and "smoked" you out of your hiding spot. Also the athmosphere was great although Unreal had IMHO better athmosphere. A game by EPIC that was EPIC. I even played a bit with setting enabling rendering of the monsters interiors as in stomic and throat. :LOL:
 
HL had me sold at the tram ride. You aren't simply plopped down in a new environment and sent off with a gun and list of goals. The long tram ride not only functions as an atmospheric aid, but an expositional one. Without forcing you to go through a bunch of written or spoken dialogue, it gives you enough information to roughly put together the who/what/where/when/why of your character and setting. You are, in essence, experiencing the exposition prior to the game actually getting underway. It certainly wasn't the first game to do this, but it was probably the first FPS to do it as well as it did.

I really liked the overlapping map segments in HL which really aided in the environment feeling connected. Pretty much every other game I had played prior to that had you walk through some sort of door or obvious load point which removed the ability for you to turn back and see where it was you just came from. The mechanics behind the loading scheme are technically no different than having physical doors that trigger the load of a new map segment, but it does prevent the player from feeling like they're pulled out of the game world temporarily. After playing through the game from beginning to end, aside from a handful of sudden breaks, you can just about trace your path back in your mind to the very beginning of your tram ride to work that morning.

The ambient soundtrack was excellent too, very appropriate in helping the mood of the game. Probably one of my favorite game soundtracks.

I would also say that in all of the above aspects, HL2 was a weaker showing. The game felt very disjointed by trying to pack so many new things into the game. You had a car level, boat level, scary horror level, etc. The intro to the game was no where near enough to make the story have any sense to it, and by the end you don't even have a proper resolution. The game just has you constantly moving through various environments and never quite takes the time to slow down and let you care about what's going on.
No, even when you did figure out how HL2 worked it was just a very stupid done-by-the-number game. HL2 was like a badly done toned down version of a Michael Bay movie. It even forced you to give two shits about a woman.
 
I liked Unreal as well, it felt more "scary" but the game didn't feel like a complete home run to me. I liked some of the creepier elements, even something just as simple as the Skaarj. I remember having to fight that monster the first time I saw him in that hallway there it was slowly closed off, lights being turned off one by one and something came out of the shadows ready to shred you to pieces. That surely made my young heart beat a little faster. But overall, the lack of a solid story and voice acting really gave it the feel of a tech demo, although it was good it did not have unity.
 
One thing that I truly miss about the old shooters was A3D. I'm sure people on such a sophisticated graphics forum can appreciate the greatness of Aureal A3D was, that is STILL unsurpassed today. With two very cheap and simple speakers, the 3D effects were just absolutely incredible. Although you need a dedicated soundcard for this I thought it was all worth it. I can only imagine how HL would have sound if I could only manage to put together a system that can support A3D. Today you'll hear the direction of where a sound comes from, but the distance and the exact location of it, even with the very best that PC gaming can offer, is still lacking.

Of course with the way the gaming market is going down, cheaper and cheaper hardware, consoles slowly eclipsing PCs, there is no chance that in the future Creative or anyone else with sufficient power will push the industry toward A3D's level, a technology from 10 years ago. Sure, if I fire up Crysis or whatever else today, with enough tweaking I can be somewhat satisfied but nothing beats the 3D room feel of Aureal.
 
When I was very young I first thought of Xen as too much of a departure from the rest of the story. However, over time I grew to love Xen so much. It was a VERY alien world where you believed that only Gordon and a few others who dared to cross would have ever seen it. It was like the bazzarro's dimension of how things worked on earth at BM. Each, seemingly, strange create, entity, or "machine" (or sets of machines) in Xen served a purpose, like a film negative to the trams, rails, and other industrial mechanisms on our world.

The eerie feeling of xen alone burnt the experience into my mind. There is only ONE other human that is ALIVE on Xen other than yourself. There's a lone scientist, hiding on a rocky platform, in one of the last levels (where you fight that gargantua) if you managed to get "bounce jump" on one of the spring holes. This isolation, felt human. It's like I've found a stray dog that is lost from the pack and is destined to die. It's completely different from HL2, where every environment is constantly inhabited by either a few or a mob of retarded AI.

HL2 also BORROWED too many imaginary from present and past pop. culture. From the looks of the combines, to Dr Breen, it just read too much like a mixture of 1984 and other totalitarian fiction. This is why Black Mesa was much more interesting. You dealt with just the Army, because that's how they looked, that's why you'd expect them to look. Other than that, all the other NPCs outside of aliens were just scientists and guards. Now HL2 wants to inject excitement by forcing you to go through a graveyard/horror city, a race across the beach, a prison, and whatever else I'm forgetting... it just isn't as convincing as a research facility.

Someone mentioned the music of HL. I thought it was done very beautifully. Every track was good enough to be in a film yet for that time music of such degree was usually not reservable for games. In fact it was so good, Valve had to reuse some of it in HL2. HL2's new tracks were very cheesy, almost CARTOONY compared to the dark tunes of HL1. If I could sum up HL2's new tracks it would be: "Bubble Bobble", that arcade game enjoyable by a 4 year old. In fact, the added "childishness" added to HL2 is what REALLY buggered me. HL1 was a very depressing game with no comical elements but in HL2 they injected not only Alyx but a billion side characters including a lame robot DOG out of all things (yeah and they really call this thing DOG). I mean come on. You want to appeal to kids, I understand, but PLEASE do not try to appeal to EVERYONE. Keep it simple, make it like a survival novel, not a quest across the world.

Does anyone else think that today, Id and even Valve are unlikely to surpass their own games of the past? Not just technological wise but in terms of making a game that tells a meaningful flawless thrilling story? What's the last hardcore sci-fi shooter? Wolfenstein? Didn't that bombed?
 
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I don't think hate it, I just think HL is a much better game but of course it is much older, it is not talked about. HL2 is like a 7.5/10 but HL1 is a 9.5/10. HL2 is just very uneven, its pace kept switching on and off with many annoyances that lasted all the way to the end (if you can even call it an end).

I'm sure in they did a HL3 now they milk the game through DLC. As soon as you make it through a level, the Gman will appear on your screen at the loading screen, either you pay 5 dollars to move forward, or if you refuse, the game will exit its Source2 engine and start up HL1 with a 5 minute tram ride. :)
 
I just don't get this sudden HL2 hate, it's an amazing game...

It's more of a backlash; elsewhere people worship the ground Valve walks on. I don't hate HL2 but I didn't like it nearly as much as I did HL1. HL1 was the best FPS released 'til that point in time. With HL2, there were a ton of games that were just as good, or better released between it and HL1. Monolith, for instance, had a really strong showing in the early 00s.
 
HL1 had alot more creep factor, which culminated in the fight against Nihilanth. HL2 was more about large outdoor world immersion with heavy emphasis on physics based puzzles. For me the big difference between the two titles is HL1's extremely fast paced action and corridor shooting coupled with horror and sci-fi elements. HL2 had some of the horror element in a few exclusive places but not to the likes of the first game, and of course the sci-fi aspect was there with more emphasis on being like an political action thriller story wise.

I like both games, and I really couldn't pick which one I like better.
 
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