[H]ardOCP Trying to be too Hard?

[YeuEmMaiMai]

I don't visit [H] very often. In fact, probably the only time I go there is when I'm making the rounds looking at benchmarks for newly announced video cards. I am the first to admit I haven't seen enough of their writing to detect any bias that might or might not exist.

That said, what the fuck is the problem you all have with this situation? Chris reviewed a $3200 computer that was unstable and after spending a lot of time trying to figure out why, they made a judgement and posted an article about it. This system cost more than my previous 3 computers combined, and it didn't work properly. I would have been pissed too. After they shipped the system back, the manufacturer contacted them about what they felt was the cause, Kyle posted a follow up and included all of the information he received regarding the issue for everyone to read. He didn't sweep their request under the rug, and he didn't say they were wrong in their conclusions.

That doesn't sound like a bias against ATI to me. In fact, what it sounds like to me is you are all upset that they didn't fall down on their hands and knees and begging forgiveness from ATI. Just because the company is infallable in your eyes doesn't mean the whole world has to ignore every issue found with any of their products. If [H] had made a blanket statement that all ATI products were complete trash you would have some ground to stand on. As it is, this just comes off as FB whining.

why not take the time to read the follow up to the fragbox article and then come back and make an informed statement.

Here ket me help you out

"Kelt Reeves:
You just don't seem to be getting this: you are perfectly entitled to your opinion of the ATI chipset. I'm not trying to change it and I don't want to write an opinion against yours. We've had our PAST issues with it as well, which is why we remained objective and suspected it as a possible cause. BUT IT WAS NOT THE CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM YOU FAULTED IT FOR IN THIS REVIEW."

"Kelt Reeves:
I have no problem with our scores. Unstable is unstable, but the cause is important to readers and companies. HardOCP guessed at the cause instead of having us find it. When they finally returned the FragBox, we found the BFG video card was the actual source of the BF2 instability. We informed HardOCP of this, and offered the exact same system back with a new video card (as well as the bad card to verify). We requested an amendment of their accusation that the motherboard/chipset caused instability. HardOCP has refused to even look at it, insinuating that we could trick them somehow. "

"Kyle Bennet
I still firmly stand by our opinions of the ATI Radeon Xpress 200 chipset. I would neither use one in my personal system, nor any system that I might build due to the stability issues I have seen with it in the past. The chipset might be fine for email and Web surfing boxes, but it is not a good solution for gamers. When I pay $3200 for a gaming computer, I simply expect to be supplied with a powerful solution and not one that even its own manufacturer doesn't consider to be high end. "

 

[tahrikmili]

That said, what the fuck is the problem you all have with this situation? Chris reviewed a $3200 computer that was unstable and after spending a lot of time trying to figure out why, they made a judgement and posted an article about it.

They were in poor judgement and put the blame on the wrong component, and are reluctant to admit it. That is the problem. If the Falcon PC by itself were the only product whose reputation was being tarnished here, we wouldn't have made a fuss, but a single component in the PC has been targeted, incorrectly, as the source of instability. You probably haven't read the thread in its entirity and I think you should.

 

[FrgMstr]

Which is exactly the problem. You didn't even do the review, instead you saw a problem, noticed it used an xpress 200 chipset and immediately came to the conclusion that it was the reason for the fault. Are you aware of the amount of things that can be responsible for lockups in a computer? Hell one in five of pretty much every piece of hardware fails when it comes out of the factory and most companies don't use thorough testing because it saves them money.

I can show you plenty of people that have had defective BFG cards, but then you wouldn't believe me would you. I suspect the card you have in your personal computer is a BFG 7800 GTX OC, maybe two of them.

Actually I was privy to all conversations and emails that Chris had with Falcon Northwest over the period of a month. There were no snap decisions made. Even Falcon Northwest believed the motherboard to be the problem. Not once did FNW ever even question the video card due to the issues were having pointing directly to the motherboard. I think this in itself is another testament to BFG’s quality. FNW never even questioned the video card as being the issue. In fact, they simply changed the card in the process of changing all components in the box to try and find the one at fault to my understanding.

Again you are simply making things up. Yes, BFG has defective hardware as does every other hardware company in the world. Let's not be silly.

As for my own personal computer? One MSI 7800 GTX and one EVGA 7800 GTX. The reason? I want to experience more hardware so I can rely on personal experience to help shape my opinion. There is documentation of that in this article if you would care to read it.

 

[Crusher]

why not take the time to read the follow up to the fragbox article and then come back and make an informed statement.

I did read it. Why don't you take your X1800XL out of your ass and try reading it again.

I'm sorry, that was uncalled for... just like this whole thread.

 

[ANova]

That doesn't sound like a bias against ATI to me. In fact, what it sounds like to me is you are all upset that they didn't fall down on their hands and knees and begging forgiveness from ATI. Just because the company is infallable in your eyes doesn't mean the whole world has to ignore every issue found with any of their products. If [H] had made a blanket statement that all ATI products were complete trash you would have some ground to stand on. As it is, this just comes off as FB whining.

Please read more of their reviews before commenting. The simple fact is he made a biased judgement based on past experience then pawned it off as fact and published it without doing any actual testing while hiding behind an "Editor's note" notice. After finding his accusations to be false, he still refuses to acknowledge as such.

Even Falcon Northwest believed the motherboard to be the problem. Not once did FNW ever even question the video card due to the issues were having pointing directly to the motherboard. I think this in itself is another testament to BFG’s quality. FNW never even questioned the video card as being the issue.

Just because FNW suspected the motherboard doesn't make it so. That is why you wait until you've found the actual problem and solved it before coming to any conclusions. The fact is that it wasn't the motherboard but rather the BFG card, yet you still proclaim BFG's "quality" and make a big stick about how bad ATI's xpress 200 is. Not to mention most ATI products in general. Even when they are perfectly good products you always manage to find some faults and bring them to attention.

 

[Crusher]

They were in poor judgement and put the blame on the wrong component, and are reluctant to admit it. That is the problem. If the Falcon PC by itself were the only product whose reputation was being tarnished here, we wouldn't have made a fuss, but a single component in the PC has been targeted, incorrectly, as the source of instability. You probably haven't read the thread in its entirity and I think you should.

From the looks of it, a single component in the PC was the source of instability, just not the one they originally thought. I seriously wonder, if [H] had blamed the video card to begin with and it had turned out to be the motherboard at fault, would you be up in arms about their horrible bias against NVIDIA? I doubt it.

 

[FrgMstr]

I get it and it seem that you do not. A lot of us have a very low opinion of you simply because of your inability to actually admit when you are wrong or even admit you have a bias towards ATi.

You think that Nvidia is God's gift to the gaming world which they are not. You allow your personal friendship with people at Nvidia get in the way of your judgement.

ATI and NVIDIA might argue that opinion, but I will simply have to respect that as what you think and move on. Nothing I post here will change your thoughts on this. I stand by the content we post as being fair and based on our expeiences.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

I did read it. Why don't you take your X1800XL out of your ass and try reading it again.

I'm sorry, that was uncalled for... just like this whole thread.

Well since your ignorance has shined through yet again, I have edited my post above so you can read exactly what the discussion is about"

 

[Skrying]

From the looks of it, a single component in the PC was the source of instability, just not the one they originally thought. I seriously wonder, if [H] had blamed the video card to begin with and it had turned out to be the motherboard at fault, would you be up in arms about their horrible bias against NVIDIA? I doubt it.

Kyle blaimed the Xpress 200 chipset..... that was not the issue. Instead of making a follow up saying "Opps I made a mistake, it was not the chipset instead it was the video card" he trys to point out things and totally avoids the video cards fault and instead bitches more about the chipset. What kinda logic is that?

 

[ANova]

From the looks of it, a single component in the PC was the source of instability, just not the one they originally thought. I seriously wonder, if [H] had blamed the video card to begin with and it had turned out to be the motherboard at fault, would you be up in arms about their horrible bias against NVIDIA? I doubt it.

LOL. Key word being had, "and it had turned out to be the motherboard". This is simply not the case. Neither will you ever see [H] criticizing nvidia in any significant amount.

 

[tahrikmili]

I stand by the content we post as being fair and based on our expeiences.

Your experiences are just about this credible with regards to their fairness..

Anyway, I believe this thread outlived its usefulness, things are starting to go around in circles. I, for one, am bailing out. Good night.

 

[Zaphod]

I went out with some friends the other day for sushi and drinks, and felt like total crap the day after. I’m pretty sure it was food poisoning. My friends on the other hand – while they agree that the food might not have been the greatest ever – attribute my sickness to what they describe as “excessive amounts of alcoholâ€￾.

I think they’re just making poor excuses for the restaurant, though, because I have previously had bad experiences with Asian food in general.

 

[FrgMstr]

I appreciate all the conversation guys. I have tried to answer your questions as honestly as I can. I understand that some of you are going to hold me to arguments that there is no way for me to win in your mind. There is always going to be conflicting opinion, and I accept that. I am sure mine are not always correct, but I am sure that yours are not either. There are some of you here that find fault with EVERYTHING we do. Just ask yourself, if you think we could be doing things as wrong as you think we are, and still be a profitable Internet business for almost 8 years? We are in the business of sharing opinions with people about computer hardware, and video cards is a huge part of that.

HardOCP opinions are widely trusted for two reasons. They are usually very correct and those opinions help our readers buy the hardware that is right for them. I think if we are as wrong as some of you guys say we are, all the time, HardOCP would have floundered a long time ago. By the end of 2006, we should have between 20 and 30 editors sharing their opinions.

Thanks for reading HardOCP, I appreciate it, even if you don't. Night.

 

[Crusher]

Please read more of their reviews before commenting. The simple fact is he made a biased judgement based on past experience then pawned it off as fact and published it without doing any actual testing while hiding behind an "Editor's note" notice. After finding his accusations to be false, he still refuses to acknowledge as such.

Just because someone uses experience to make a judgement doesn't mean it's a biased judgement. As Chris stated in the original article, even Falcon NW thought it might be a motherboard issue, and that they had problems with the motherboard before which required a couple of BIOS updates to solve.

Where's the conspiracy here? I don't see Kyle trying to hide Falcon's determination that it was the video card's fault, and it was an NVIDIA video card, was it not? If he really was trying to make ATI look bad and favor NVIDIA, why would he even bother mentioning that?

It doesn't matter though. You've already made up your minds about the situation and I doubt anything would cause you to look at it more objectively. If you think [H] is so horrible, throw $100 into some web hosting and make a better alternative. I will be looking forward to your NVIDIA reviews.

 

[PARANOiA]

HardOCP opinions are widely trusted

If only I had that smiley of the guy rolling on the ground.

 

[ANova]

HardOCP opinions are widely trusted for two reasons. They are usually very correct and those opinions help our readers buy the hardware that is right for them. I think if we are as wrong as some of you guys say we are, all the time, HardOCP would have floundered a long time ago. By the end of 2006, we should have between 20 and 30 editors sharing their opinions.

How humble you are.

More like because it draws those with similar opinions together. Considering those who own either an nvidia card or an ATI card are at present split roughly in half, it's no surprise that you get the attention you do. Like that of Rage3d and nvnews, neither are suffering from a lack of visitors, despite their own strong and generally unwaivering opinions.

 

[Crusher]

Well since your ignorance has shined through yet again, I have edited my post above so you can read exactly what the discussion is about"

YeuEmMaimai, this is you crying bias:

You are just as biased, if not moreso, than anything I have seen on [H]. I don't expect you to change that, but please stop confusing me not joining your point of view with ignorance. I already told you, I read the article, and obviously with more objectivity than you are capable of.

ANova: keep giving bad rep while you hide yours, it just shows how little people should care about your opinion.

 

[ANova]

ANova: keep giving bad rep while you hide yours, it just shows how little people should care about your opinion.

Err, I haven't given any bad rep at all and the reason I disabled it is because I find it useless. How does not having any colored bars somehow detract from the relevancy of my opinions or statements?

Maybe it's just that you have no counter argument to my own?

 

[Crusher]

What argument? You started out by claiming that I did not read the article after I already stated I had read it, which only tells me you have below par reading comprehension, and makes me question whether or not you really understood the articles when you read them.

Kyle's "acusations", as you call them, are simply his opinions based on his experiences. Do you even realize that you're blasting him for having an opinion of something and not apologizing for it?

Just because FNW suspected the motherboard doesn't make it so. That is why you wait until you've found the actual problem and solved it before coming to any conclusions.

Read the article again, nowhere did they claim that they knew what the problem was for a fact. They reported their best guess as to what the problem would have been, and their reason why that is what they believe (a history of issues with the chipset). You can't fault them for having that belief before knowing exactly what the problem was, and you can't fault them for not apologizing for having the belief without knowing the issue.

And if you re-read Kyle's follow up carefully you will see that he plainly laid out the entire situation, including an acceptance of Falcon's determination that the video card was at fault. He was defending their right to have posted their original belief; he was not trying to still claim that belief was right, and he was not disputing Falcon's claim that it was the video card.

There is a difference between setting the record straight and grovelling for forgiveness. [H] has done the former, you criticize them for not doing the latter.

 

[John Reynolds]

I think this thread has run its course.