[H]ardOCP Trying to be too Hard?

[Joe DeFuria]

BFGTech has a track record of consistently building quality products that work.

Until now, you mean.

 

[tahrikmili]

Lovely attitude you got there, and quite telling.

I've read many of your reviews and while the actual numbers are usually correct, the commentary shines. If I had a bias meter it would be off the charts.

Don't mind him, he probably mistook B3D for his own site's forum.

 

[FrgMstr]

Lovely attitude you got there, and quite telling.

I've read many of your reviews and while the actual numbers are usually correct, the commentary shines. If I had a bias meter it would be off the charts.

Thank you.

My mom alwasy said, "Don't dish it out if you can't take it."

 

[SugarCoat]

It wasn't? What review did you read exactly?

instability on the part of the motherboard chipset that is

In this case your opion is not required since it was not the fault of the chipset. Why haven't you slammed BFG for making an unstable video card? I read that entire article and then i read the followup and all I can say is you are stuck on stupid to be still trying to say that ATi's chipset had anything to do with it

That is exactly what im seeing too. The entire system suffered a failure and before any proper analysis was done, ATI's chipset was pointed out as being the fault. To go one further the reviewer obvious has had some sort of agenda, and proves it proudly by stating ATI's chipsets sucks on all acounts in stability, which is laughable since thats the opposite i'v read in recent Crossfire and other performance Xpress200 chipsets.

Basically he took it upon himself to finger a product within the system as bad, even though the product was:

- Not specifically being reviewed
- Not the cause of any problems in the review that i could notice

and that shows a small abuse on the part of the reviewer. Lets say for a second the entire computer worked perfectly, at the end how nice would a comment fit that states

"By the way i should make a note here, I think ATI's chipsets suck; they're unstable, have horrible performance, however we encountered no problems here with it in particuliar and the computer performed fantastic"

Because thats about as much as was said to me.

 

[digitalwanderer]

BFGTech has a track record of consistently building quality products that work. That is why I repeatedly recommend them. I recommended them consistently BEFORE they were a sponsor. VIA has been a sponsor for years. You don't see us recommending a bunch of their products do you? No. That is because I don't find any of their products of great value to the enthusiast currently. ABIT has taken a few on the chin this year with us…..they have advertised with us longer than anyone. Corsair advertises with us, and we have never done a Ram review…. I have lost advertisers before over harsh reviews. They come and they go. MSI left because we gave them a bad motherboard review, and they have never come back for I think 2 years now. That is the breaks.

So while your "paid off" argument sounds great for anyone inclined to buy into conspiracy theories, when the facts come down, it just ain't so. Our editors that do product evaluations stay away from the money side of the business and have implicit instructions to speak their minds based on their product experiences whether the product be from an advertiser or not.

You can take that for what it is worth. But the fact of the matter is that out of you and I, I am the only one with the knowledge to be making such statements, and your posting is based on things you just made up while sitting their behind your keyboard. If you really want some answers, why don’t you send some mails to our editors and ask them if they are leaned on for certain conclusions or if their content is ever changed as to impact their opinions instead of just making stuff up?

Is it just me or does the bolded bit seem to sum up Kyle a bit lately?

 

[tahrikmili]

Thank you.

My mom alwasy said, "Don't dish it out if you can't take it."

Funny how I hadn't and still haven't personally insulted you anywhere on this thread.

 

[Geo]

Is it just me or does the bolded bit seem to sum up Kyle a bit lately?

Oh yeah. It's all about the trust of late. I think he's honestly puzzled when he doesn't get it outside his own backyard.

 

[Skrying]

Until now, you mean.

Yes, and Kyle's wonderful opinion on their hardware therefore means that this issue couldnt have been caused by the BFG card This is also why you can not walk into a review expecting things to be great or bad for that matter. As this all clearly shows it was not ATi's fault, of couse this fact seems to escape Kyle's mind and since BFG has a perfect track record in your eyes it couldnt be their card... though it was.

Kyle, you know very well that even if I did contact members of your review staff getting an honest answer or even a full feldge one such as that would not happen, and if I did it now it'd be picked out... kinda like a new Falcon Northwest unit.

What gets me about your relationship with BFG is the fact that sometimes you even recommend them when their solution, since it cost more on average, is out of the question. You also seem to not hit them when their solution is higher than any other and sometimes does not have any advantage at all. I dont get it, what makes BFG's cards mystically more worth it when in fact they're not? What makes their cards not at fault when they were? Why is Falcon Northwest's answer of the issue not go well with you? Why can you not simply accept the freaking facts and realize you made a mistake, correct and move on, its not hard stuff Kyle.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Oh yeah. It's all about the trust of late. I think he's honestly puzzled when he doesn't get it outside his own backyard.

Exactly! You said it better than I though.

 

[FrgMstr]

In other words, a pre-disposed opinion of yours (valid or not) either

1) Prevents you from being interested in evaluating and criticizing products as they are set before you...you already know "the answer". Why even review the falcon product since you truly believed it was crap from the onset?

or

2) Gives you a "reason" to purposely mislead your readership with wreckless regard for any truth.

Nice.

First off, let's get the stage set properly. I did not evaluate the equipment or write the article, only added a paragraph clearly marked as an "Editor's Note" in the published evaluation. Chris purchased the box and actually had every expectation of it working as advertised. He had no reason to think otherwise.

1. Your assertion here is ludicrous at best. Had the unit performed as it should have it would have gotten a stellar review, with stellar scoring. It however failed at the one task it was purchased with in mind. Had it performed better, would have that worked to change my opinion about the Xpress 200 chipset? Absolutely. Would that have made me think it was a solid and stable chipset overall? No.

2. I shared my opinion based on my product experiences with the Xpress 200 chipset. That was last week. This week I had another faulty Xpress 200 motherboard that I purchased from Newegg on the test bench. Has that left me with a better opinion to editorialize about to my readership? No.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

First off, let's get the stage set properly. I did not evaluate the equipment or write the article, only added a paragraph clearly marked as an "Editor's Note" in the published evaluation.

Hey, you're the one defending all of this while not allowing others to talk to prevent um, your "wires" from being crossed.

Chris purchased the box and actually had every expectation of it working as advertised. He had no reason to think otherwise.

Of course he did...by your own admission, it has a Radeon chipset in it...why would you expect it to not have problems?

1. Your assertion here is ludicrous at best. Had the unit performed as it should have it would have gotten a stellar review, with stellar scoring. It however failed at the one task it was purchased with in mind. Had it performed better, would have that worked to change my opinion about the Xpress 200 chipset? Absolutely.

So, what is your opinion of BFG products? And now that you know the issue wasn't the Xpress 200 chipset...what is your opinion of it?

Would that have made me think it was a solid and stable chipset overall? No.

Which is irrelevant. I'm not looking for you to change any opinion of the chipset. I'm looking to you to be fair, honest, and diligent in product reviews.

2. I shared my opinion based on my product experiences with the Xpress 200 chipset.

\

Yes, as I implied, as some pathetic attempt to justify blatantly unforgivable and unsupportable comments in the review. That is exactly the problem.

 

[SugarCoat]

First off, let's get the stage set properly. I did not evaluate the equipment or write the article, only added a paragraph clearly marked as an "Editor's Note" in the published evaluation. Chris purchased the box and actually had every expectation of it working as advertised. He had no reason to think otherwise.

1. Your assertion here is ludicrous at best. Had the unit performed as it should have it would have gotten a stellar review, with stellar scoring. It however failed at the one task it was purchased with in mind. Had it performed better, would have that worked to change my opinion about the Xpress 200 chipset? Absolutely. Would that have made me think it was a solid and stable chipset overall? No.

2. I shared my opinion based on my product experiences with the Xpress 200 chipset. That was last week. This week I had another faulty Xpress 200 motherboard that I purchased from Newegg on the test bench. Has that left me with a better opinion to editorialize about to my readership? No.

Had it, being the motherboard/chipset i assume, worked better? You mean it was broken after all? No i dont see that, i see a faulty graphics card and you jumping to conclusions and continuing to push your "thoughts" exactly where they dont belong. Get an Xpress200 motherboard, test it, review it, chew the hell out of it all you want that you are entitled to. But fingering a company for poor performance when none was noticable is slander. If anyone cares about your opinion of things, they'll go to your forums and read your comments. Nobody reads reviews for opinions, they read reviews to look at real results of how things performed under tests and the impression it leaves. You did no such thing.

Opinions are like assholes, everbody's got one. Yours is not special.

 

[FrgMstr]

What gets me about your relationship with BFG is the fact that sometimes you even recommend them when their solution, since it cost more on average, is out of the question. You also seem to not hit them when their solution is higher than any other and sometimes does not have any advantage at all. I dont get it, what makes BFG's cards mystically more worth it when in fact they're not? What makes their cards not at fault when they were? Why is Falcon Northwest's answer of the issue not go well with you? Why can you not simply accept the freaking facts and realize you made a mistake, correct and move on, its not hard stuff Kyle.

What about their solutions are "out of the question?" I don't understand your statement.

We find a very solid value in the support, service and warranty that BFG offer. This is not something we look at as supplied for "free" as some of you might. I find VALUE in that. If you don't, I respect that. They are my personal choice for NVIDIA video card purchases here in the USA. We have also written extremely positive reviews for many others making the same cards. But if I am going to editorialize, BFG is my suggestion. I can suggest their products and not have a worry in the world about the person having a bad experience. So there is nothing mystical about it, and if you read, we do point these things out.

As for Falcon's answer, I am not in a position to have proof positive that was the issue. If it was fine, and I think there were apologies made to that point.

I am not sure what else you would have us do. Did you read the follow-up? My opinion about the Xpress 200 stands. It was not based on my FragBox experience to begin with. Heap that on with Falcon's technical support basically blaming the motherboard for a week did not raise my opinion either.

 

[FrgMstr]

Yes, as I implied, as some pathetic attempt to justify blatantly unforgivable and unsupportable comments in the review. That is exactly the problem.

I respect your opinion. Thanks for sharing it with me.

 

[SugarCoat]

It was not based on my FragBox experience to begin with.

heres a hint, if your opinion of the board wasnt based on the FragBox, dont stick it in a follow-up that was all brought about by a problem in which you strongly suggested it WAS the motherboard in the FragBox.

i know its really strange, but people MIGHT accidentally make the connection of you saying its the problem in this situation, and for that matter most situations where an ATI chipset is involved.

 

[ANova]

I did not evaluate the equipment or write the article, only added a paragraph clearly marked as an "Editor's Note" in the published evaluation.

Which is exactly the problem. You didn't even do the review, instead you saw a problem, noticed it used an xpress 200 chipset and immediately came to the conclusion that it was the reason for the fault. Are you aware of the amount of things that can be responsible for lockups in a computer? Hell one in five of pretty much every piece of hardware fails when it comes out of the factory and most companies don't use thorough testing because it saves them money.

I can show you plenty of people that have had defective BFG cards, but then you wouldn't believe me would you. I suspect the card you have in your personal computer is a BFG 7800 GTX OC, maybe two of them.

 

[FrgMstr]

Had it, being the motherboard/chipset i assume, worked better? You mean it was broken after all? No i dont see that, i see a faulty graphics card and you jumping to conclusions and continuing to push your "thoughts" exactly where they dont belong. Get an Xpress200 motherboard, test it, review it, chew the hell out of it all you want that you are entitled to. But fingering a company for poor performance when none was noticable is slander. If anyone cares about your opinion of things, they'll go to your forums and read your comments. Nobody reads reviews for opinions, they read reviews to look at real results of how things performed under tests and the impression it leaves. You did no such thing.

Opinions are like assholes, everbody's got one. Yours is not special.

We have chewed through more than a few Xpress 200 motherboards. The few retail products we had, we did not find them to be worthy of spending the resources to publish a review on them. And remember the failed Xpress 200 motherboard that I bought last week and sent to ATI this morning?

As for slander, that is just laughable. Trust me; the last thing ATI wants is me dragging their Xpress 200 products in front of a jury that just expect computers to "work right."

And our data shows that people read HardOCP for one reason above all, and that is for our opinions. That is why you are seeing more subjective content published by HardOCP. We are publishing the content that people want. If you are upset about us having opinions based on hardware experiences, then we are surely not the website for you.

 

[FrgMstr]

heres a hint, if your opinion of the board wasnt based on the FragBox, dont stick it in a follow-up that was all brought about by a problem in which you strongly suggested it WAS the motherboard in the FragBox.

i know its really strange, but people MIGHT accidentally make the connection of you saying its the problem in this situation, and for that matter most situations where an ATI chipset is involved.

Well there is the crux of the matter eh? I can "stick" my opinion anywhere I want to on my website. And I think a bit more highly of our readers than you do. I think that most of them are educated or at least bright enough to understand the differences between statements of opinion, and statements of fact.

Again, HardOCP is KNOWN for sharing its opinions. We are also known for sharing opinions that give our readers solid direction on what products to purchase. Our track record is extremely solid in regards to this. Opinion is exactly what has made HardOCP as read as it is.

If you don't want to hear opinions, HardOCP is not the hardware site for you.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

That is an easy one. And let me type this again since you don't seem to get it. I have a very low opinion of the Radeon Xpress 200 chipset because of my personal experiences with the retail products that we have been exposed to over the last year. And as current as of today. That sir, is how I can "slam" ATI's product. If you would care to share your numerous positive experiences with the product, I would be happy to listen. And why would I want to listen for those experiences, and better yet even have some of my own? Because that is how we form opinions about hardware. See how it works?

Our agreement still stands with Falcon Northwest, and we will cover another system of theirs very soon. The president of Falcon Northwest wants to very much support our system evaluation program as he has stated to me that he believes it to have a good bit of merit in the industry. That said, other companies are already using HardOCP.com quotes in their marketing campaigns. Falcon Northwest is a solid and respectable company, and I doubt one bad issue will have them with their tail between their legs.

I get it and it seem that you do not. A lot of us have a very low opinion of you simply because of your inability to actually admit when you are wrong or even admit you have a bias towards ATi.

You think that Nvidia is God's gift to the gaming world which they are not. You allow your personal friendship with people at Nvidia get in the way of your judgement.

 

[Crusher]

I don't visit [H] very often. In fact, probably the only time I go there is when I'm making the rounds looking at benchmarks for newly announced video cards. I am the first to admit I haven't seen enough of their writing to detect any bias that might or might not exist.

That said, what the fuck is the problem you all have with this situation? Chris reviewed a $3200 computer that was unstable and after spending a lot of time trying to figure out why, they made a judgement and posted an article about it. This system cost more than my previous 3 computers combined, and it didn't work properly. I would have been pissed too. After they shipped the system back, the manufacturer contacted them about what they felt was the cause, Kyle posted a follow up and included all of the information he received regarding the issue for everyone to read. He didn't sweep their request under the rug, and he didn't say they were wrong in their conclusions.

That doesn't sound like a bias against ATI to me. In fact, what it sounds like to me is you are all upset that they didn't fall down on their hands and knees and begging forgiveness from ATI. Just because the company is infallable in your eyes doesn't mean the whole world has to ignore every issue found with any of their products. If [H] had made a blanket statement that all ATI products were complete trash you would have some ground to stand on. As it is, this just comes off as FB whining.