GT aint a true simulator, its not trying to be and it doesnt have to be.
GT aint a true simulator, its not trying to be and it doesnt have to be.
I’m sorry but you’re going to have to do a bit better than just stating what you believe to be a fact.
What is your definition of a ‘true simulator’? And then you can explain how GT7 doesn’t match that definition.
A question to you, do you think MS flight simulator is in any way trying to be realistic or even a sim? Do you think DCS is?
I dont know what DCS is but sure as hell MS flight simulator is trying to be as realistic as possible
Aight then, it seems that were on very different wave lengths indeed. Im not talking graphically directly. it seems that Arwin randomly sees my opinion that GT isnt a true sim as something negative towards Gran Turismo which certainly isnt the case.
I dont think any 'sim' would be all that fun for the regular gamer if it were true simulators.
If you are incapable of even writing down your own definition of what a simulator is, then you have little cause for claiming any game is or isn’t a simulator. People make lists about car games, ranking them by difficulty and putting hardest on top, easiest on bottom, to determine their realism.
The irony is, there are a lot of people out there who claim that a racing sim is realistic when it is difficult. But that is exactly what is wrong with a game like Project Cars. Or, for that matter, with the Sim Tires back from when GT3 had those as an option. It was highly ironic, their grip was so bad, that the AI had trouble staying on track
Have you actually driven any kind of car, slow, fast? I have, quite a few now. My dad grew up near the racing track of Zandvoort. We went to drive on the Ring in various cars. We rented a Porsche Boxter S to drive around the Ardennes for a weekend. That car, in its default configuration, it’s an MR, nice and snappy … and it is nearly impossible to let the car spin. Even getting a single wheel to squeal in a tight corner, practically impossible.
A simulation is something that imitates reality. All aspects of it. GT7 imitates a tonne of stuff from real life. There is practically nothing that is in the game that is not based on reality. And it does it pretty well. As I said, there are games that imitate certain parts in more detail, or more realistically. Tire flex, suspension, these are parts where other games have done better or more detail than GT in the past. There are games that focus on only a certain type of car and imitate that as well as possible.
But as a complete package, with the improvements GT7 has right now, it is absolutely, without any doubt, a sim, and it is also a good one, because it doesn’t make you spin out without any good reason (last time I played Forza), or requires you to change a tonne of settings to even remotely get near any kind of stability (Project Cars).
Assetto Corsa has a good driving model (at least last time I tried it it did), but very limited in terms of what you can do.
rFactor is probably one of the very best right now. A long time ago mods for an F1 game were the most realistic. But it should tell you something that GT Sport took inspiration from it directly. It prides itself that the best online players get a real racing licence training and a shot at racing in real races like Le Mans 24 Hours.
If you make a list of everything that GT7 does right now, it is absolutely one of the best racing sim packages. It has a very competent driving model that has improved in this latest version with more realistic suspension, tire modeling including visual tire flex, better aerodynamics simulation and so on. It has realistic graphics. The cars are extremely realistic and detailed models, that you can modify and upgrade to a great extent, as well as visually stickered up in any way possible, great force feedback controls when using a variety of supported wheels, driving with the controller is absolutely the most realistic there is out there, with the often wrongfully dismissed motion steering, feedback in the triggers and rumble. The real life tracks are also extremely detailed and realistically modeled. This new version has vastly improved surround sound even on stereo headphones. The weather and day night and cloud simulation is at least a match for any racing game out there now, unless there is one out there that emulates the rain actually being displaced rather than sort of proportionally pre-programmed, or supports snow.
The only part where it won’t soon be able to compete against rFactor is how customizable and extensible that game is. And the number of tracks is comparatively small compared to something that is freely moddable.
But make no mistake, GT7 is a true sim, not some Arcade racer.
Again, unless we cannot agree on a definition of what a simulation is.
Which is why I asked. For your definition.
The irony is, there are a lot of people out there who claim that a racing sim is realistic when it is difficult. But that is exactly what is wrong with a game like Project Cars. Or, for that matter, with the Sim Tires back from when GT3 had those as an option. It was highly ironic, their grip was so bad, that the AI had trouble staying on track
Have you actually driven any kind of car, slow, fast? I have, quite a few now. My dad grew up near the racing track of Zandvoort. We went to drive on the Ring in various cars. We rented a Porsche Boxter S to drive around the Ardennes for a weekend. That car, in its default configuration, it’s an MR, nice and snappy … and it is nearly impossible to let the car spin. Even getting a single wheel to squeal in a tight corner, practically impossible.
A simulation is something that imitates reality. All aspects of it. GT7 imitates a tonne of stuff from real life. There is practically nothing that is in the game that is not based on reality. And it does it pretty well. As I said, there are games that imitate certain parts in more detail, or more realistically. Tire flex, suspension, these are parts where other games have done better or more detail than GT in the past. There are games that focus on only a certain type of car and imitate that as well as possible.
But as a complete package, with the improvements GT7 has right now, it is absolutely, without any doubt, a sim, and it is also a good one, because it doesn’t make you spin out without any good reason (last time I played Forza), or requires you to change a tonne of settings to even remotely get near any kind of stability (Project Cars).
Assetto Corsa has a good driving model (at least last time I tried it it did), but very limited in terms of what you can do.
rFactor is probably one of the very best right now. A long time ago mods for an F1 game were the most realistic. But it should tell you something that GT Sport took inspiration from it directly. It prides itself that the best online players get a real racing licence training and a shot at racing in real races like Le Mans 24 Hours.
If you make a list of everything that GT7 does right now, it is absolutely one of the best racing sim packages. It has a very competent driving model that has improved in this latest version with more realistic suspension, tire modeling including visual tire flex, better aerodynamics simulation and so on. It has realistic graphics. The cars are extremely realistic and detailed models, that you can modify and upgrade to a great extent, as well as visually stickered up in any way possible, great force feedback controls when using a variety of supported wheels, driving with the controller is absolutely the most realistic there is out there, with the often wrongfully dismissed motion steering, feedback in the triggers and rumble. The real life tracks are also extremely detailed and realistically modeled. This new version has vastly improved surround sound even on stereo headphones. The weather and day night and cloud simulation is at least a match for any racing game out there now, unless there is one out there that emulates the rain actually being displaced rather than sort of proportionally pre-programmed, or supports snow.
The only part where it won’t soon be able to compete against rFactor is how customizable and extensible that game is. And the number of tracks is comparatively small compared to something that is freely moddable.
But make no mistake, GT7 is a true sim, not some Arcade racer.
Again, unless we cannot agree on a definition of what a simulation is.
Which is why I asked. For your definition.
2015 LP 610, never took it to any track myself though. Im more into aviation (more on this below).
Il take your word for it then. I was basing off one of the videos that was shared in this topic where they noted that GTS/7 was somewhere in between a true simulation and 'game'.
Theres no flight sim out there that simulates what a real simulator does though, and about that im 100% sure, with the closest being X-plane followed by DCS (not graphics). Didnt know there where racing/car games out there simulating the real thing that close to the real thing.
Thats seriously impressive how close it looks, GT7 improves on track detail by the looks of it aswell so yeah, very close. Hope it comes to PC aswell down the line, i dont think theres any close to it graphically.
All the decent driving games require you to have a strong working understanding of driving dynamics to go fast in.
It’s at the very top end when you’re hovering around the top of the charts consistently that different driving games start showing their limitations.
Am I glad GT and Forza exist? Absolutely. The varied experience and accessibility to a huge audience keeps the car enthusiast hobby well alive.
Would I go from AC/ACC/iracing to GT and Forza? Absolutely not.
It’s at the very top end when you’re hovering around the top of the charts consistently that different driving games start showing their limitations.
Am I glad GT and Forza exist? Absolutely. The varied experience and accessibility to a huge audience keeps the car enthusiast hobby well alive.
Would I go from AC/ACC/iracing to GT and Forza? Absolutely not.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
That makes some sense if you watch a lot of TV I guess. I don't watch TV much so I base my reaction to game footage based on what I see in real life and not based on video camera recordings.
Might be why I'm much less tolerant of softness and blur in games than other people. Interesting to think about.
Might also explain why using a controller annoys me so much since analog stick control of the camera is 100% unrealistic compared to how the human vision system works. However, if you come at it from the point of it being a camera controlled by some camera-man somewhere, then the slow and deliberate pacing of how the camera moves with controller probably doesn't seem so unrealistic.
GT7 is most definitely a driving simulation game. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call it a true sim. IE - crashing has almost no impact in GTS from what I've seen. Crash into a wall and your car is still fine and you can continue to race. Going off track doesn't damage your suspension in any meaningful way. The body of the car doesn't suffer aerodynamic damage or worse potentially catastrophic damage to the engine, suspension or drivetrain if you hit another car or an obstacle, etc.
That said, it is definitely not an arcade racer in any significant way (other than the whole crashing and going off track having little to no long lasting impact on a vehicle).
But then it's hard to hold that against Gran Turismo as there aren't many driving simulations that will go to that depth of simulation in attempting to be a true driving simulator.
Regards,
SB
This. If you’re not good enough to always be at the top of the game; you aren’t ready to graduate to the next level.
Being at the top of GT is probably already sufficient to be a solid racer, but there are harder more realistic sims to add additional layers
snc
Veteran
One thing that differeniet gt sport vs acc and iracing is lack of need to being racing engeener as there are (mostly) no setups allowed and default is on with bop so you dont have to spend all your free time to figure out proper settings. Tough it can change as with gt7 (hopely it will be mixture). And easy to jump approach is good not only for beginners but also for people with family/work/limitted free time (for example gt sport streamer I watch kie25 was esports drivers in project cars, was top split driver in iracing and acc but enjoy gt sport mostly because of this approach and now play mostly it). And thx to fia tournament level of competition in gt sport was insane (and will be even bigger in gt7)
I wonder if they still have the licence … they haven’t mentioned it yet in GT7 marketing.
The public races and time trials generally have not setup, but the custom races anyone can setup you can really do everything, setups, full races, required pit stops etc.
The public races and time trials generally have not setup, but the custom races anyone can setup you can really do everything, setups, full races, required pit stops etc.
snc
Veteran
Probably not but format will be same just without fia logo
For sure. Let’s not get things confused here. There is racing and then there is nuance.
GT is great. But if you require more nuance for whatever reason and GT doesn’t provide it; you need to find another sim.
I think most people would agree that learning to race and how to race, and just enjoying racing; GT is enough. But if you require additional layers to simulate real life of car operation because it’s your profession or you just want it, then you need these layers here and not necessarily for racing.
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What drives me insane is how do they manage to calculate the physics and power of a car so well to its real counterpart that they achieve almost 1:1 in how the car behaves on turns and on the time record.
There was something about the feel of the handling in GTS though that didnt feel quite right. I didnt get much in the sense of weight and elevation. It felt kind of easy. Of course with the wheel (which I dont have) might have felt more realistic. But with the controller something was off.
Unknown Soldier
Veteran
Notice: Data Transfer From "Gran Turismo Sport" to "Gran Turismo 7"
https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gtsport/news/00_8917603.html
https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gtsport/news/00_8917603.html
