General external expansion discussion? *spawn*

[Sycologist]

Both X/S Series support max. USB 3.1 Gen. 1, https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/xbox-series-s

Not really fast for 2020.

Agreed was hoping at least Gen 2

I don't know the relative usb speeds but i wouldn't say its essentially for BC only.
Back up/restore current games could do with fast connections, especially if you've back upped to an ssd.

Even on here a lot of discussion around internal storage sizes and juggling next gen games

Yep mine will be setup as a 3 tier storage system so the slow USB is disappointing. I was hoping to be able to transfer huge game files from external USB SSD onto the internal NVMe at highspeeds of at least 1GBs.

 

[cheapchips]

Agreed was hoping at least Gen 2



Yep mine will be setup as a 3 tier storage system so the slow USB is disappointing. I was hoping to be able to transfer huge game files from external USB SSD onto the internal NVMe at highspeeds of at least 1GBs.

Isn't the difference between 1GBs and 0.5GBs putting the kettle on and putting the kettle on & making a cup of tea?

 

[Jay]

Isn't the difference between 1GBs and 0.5GBs putting the kettle on and putting the kettle on & making a cup of tea?

Considering all the marketing about getting you into the game faster, it definitely slows it down a lot more than it could've been.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Let's be real: None of these drives will be big enough to last this generation. By 2022 a lot of gamers will be buying memory cards or using USB transfers.

The console that will have the hardest time is the PS5, as it's the 4k console with the smallest internal drive and the most expensive speed requirements for external drives.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The console that will have the hardest time is the PS5, as it's the 4k console with the smallest internal drive and the most expensive speed requirements for external drives.

In 2022 I think all the the consoles, including Series S, will be included more internal storage by storage.

It's odd how PS5's super fast I/O is being turned into a negative. The reverse spin on this same sentiment is by 2022 Series X will be the 4K console with the worst loading times because can't take advantage of cheap, widely-available fast NVMe drives. 7-8Gb/sec is fast now, it won't be in two years. In four years it'll feel positively be lethargic. And Series X is around half that.

 

[Arnold Beckenbauer]

I don't know the relative usb speeds but i wouldn't say its essentially for BC only.
Back up/restore current games could do with fast connections, especially if you've back upped to an ssd.

Even on here a lot of discussion around internal storage sizes and juggling next gen games

Gen1 is 5 GBit/s, Gen2 is 10 Gbit/s and Gen2x2 is 20 Gbit/s (USB 3.2 only (Type C)). And there are external (not so expensive) USB 3.1 Gen2 SSDs, which read/write with ~ 1 GB/s (almost Gen2 speed).

 

[turkey]

For anyone else looking for it, it's listed under Tech Specs >> Ports -- USB. 3x USB 3.1 Gen 1 ports

All these things must add up or down if we are thinking BOM management

Did the target price point of series S bring down these where the X on it's own could have absorbed the extra cost.

 

[Lalaland]

No we have reached the end of NAND speed, it shall go no further.... By 2022 NVMe drives will be as fast as Sony's custom solution and will be a commodity thing you can pop in from a variety of manufacturers, MS will still be harvesting those sweet licensing $$$ from their proprietary expansion from Seagate.

 

[chris1515]

No we have reached the end of NAND speed, it shall go no further.... By 2022 NVMe drives will be as fast as Sony's custom solution and will be a commodity thing you can pop in from a variety of manufacturers, MS will still be harvesting those sweet licensing $$$ from their proprietary expansion from Seagate.

In 2022, there will be the first PCIE5 SSD going much faster than PS5 SSD and it will make PCIE4 SSD much cheaper.

 

[AlNom]

In 2022 I think all the the consoles, including Series S, will be included more internal storage by storage.

Alternatively, MS announces a price drop on the expansion drives (gotta get the profits there while keeping BOM low, particularly for Lockhart). I assume 2TB expansion is also in the works, which may even lead to a flooding of 2nd-hand 1TB drives as hardcore folks upgrade.

I can definitely see a 2TB Series X later on though.

edit:
whoops, went off-topic in the scalability thread.

 

[Strange]

Point is that there is no competition in the Microsoft drive so there is little to no incentive for Microsoft to lower prices, while Sony has no method to jack up the prices resulting in better value for the customer.

We already saw this before, and Sony allowing off the shelf parts in PS3 and PS4 was really good for customers. SSD wasn't that doable during the early days of the PS4 but it was much more viable when PS4 pro came along.
Lots of us went ahead and upgraded and took the original HDD and stuck them in an expansion case.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Alternatively, MS announces a price drop on the expansion drives (gotta get the profits there while keeping BOM low, particularly for Lockhart). I assume 2TB expansion is also in the works, which may even lead to a flooding of 2nd-hand 1TB drives as hardcore folks upgrade. I can definitely see a 2TB Series X later on though.

I wonder what control Microsoft have over Seagate's pricing? If I'm Seagate, I don't expect Microsoft to be able to tell me what price I can set for a NVMe drive - not unless Microsoft are willing to make up the difference.

The licensing deal has to be good for both. What Microsoft get out of it is a recognised and trusted manufacturer and what Seagate get out of it is presumably minimal competition in this space. Otherwise, what's in it for Seagate?

 

[BRiT]

Ability to sell to a market.

 

[AlNom]

I wonder what control Microsoft have over Seagate's pricing? If I'm Seagate, I don't expect Microsoft to be able to tell me what price I can set for a NVMe drive - not unless Microsoft are willing to make up the difference.

The licensing deal has to be good for both. What Microsoft get out of it is a recognised and trusted manufacturer and what Seagate get out of it is presumably minimal competition in this space. Otherwise, what's in it for Seagate?

Right - I was thinking the storage price drop would be more related to the cost of the chips at a fair market price rather than Seagate just charging a flat rate in perpetuity. Presumably, there's a cost reduction plan for the flash as MS brought it up during HotChips.

I suppose the contract may or may not be renegotiated after the initial contracted supplies are delivered for X-dollars.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

In 2022 I think all the the consoles, including Series S, will be included more internal storage by storage.

It's odd how PS5's super fast I/O is being turned into a negative. The reverse spin on this same sentiment is by 2022 Series X will be the 4K console with the worst loading times because can't take advantage of cheap, widely-available fast NVMe drives. 7-8Gb/sec is fast now, it won't be in two years. In four years it'll feel positively be lethargic. And Series X is around half that.

As far as I can tell, the people stating that the PS5's SSD isn't big enough are the same people that suggest 10.2tflops isn't powerful enough one minute, but that 4tflops are the next minute.

If I'm correct the logic goes something like:

512GB@4.8GB/s and 4tflops = good
825GB@9GB/s and 10.2tflops = bad

Edit: compressed speed of Xbox storage.

 

[BRiT]

I dont see anyone saying that at all, or did I miss where TeamGhoband or HBRU said that?

 

[Allandor]

As far as I can tell, the people stating that the PS5's SSD isn't big enough are the same people that suggest 10.2tflops isn't powerful enough one minute, but that 4tflops are the next minute.

If I'm correct the logic goes something like:

512GB@2.5GB/s and 4tflops = good
825GB@9GB/s and 10.2tflops = bad

well, you are mixing up the data. You can compare all compressed or all uncompressed bandwidth but not mixed.

Btw, 512 GB is still quite small, but it should be better than the 825GB of the PS5 just because the games on the series s are planned to only store the lower assets there. So in the end it could be that the series s can store more games than the series x. But it really depends on the size of the OS reserved space.

but overall, all next gen consoles have way to little storage.

one funny thing about the S is that in relation to what it should bring on screen, it has the highest IO bandwidth (just in relation). But if you use this, the series X could get a real problem ^^.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

well, you are mixing up the data. You can compare all compressed or all uncompressed bandwidth

Fair point. I did mix those up. I have corrected the original post.

The point I'm making is that there is mixed objectivity to some of the comments. I have a slight bias towards Sony at the moment, I try to recognise the strengths of the opposing manufacturer.

Also, while the storage area sounds small at the moment, we don't know the game sizes so I wouldn't be so quick to identify it as a "problem". The is the first generation I can think of where storage speed has increased by an order of magnitude compared to the one that came prior.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

And I doubt the Series S game sizes are 50% Series X, as the RAM isn't 50% the size. So 512 is definitely smaller proportionally to Series X.

 

[Lalaland]

I wonder what control Microsoft have over Seagate's pricing? If I'm Seagate, I don't expect Microsoft to be able to tell me what price I can set for a NVMe drive - not unless Microsoft are willing to make up the difference.

The licensing deal has to be good for both. What Microsoft get out of it is a recognised and trusted manufacturer and what Seagate get out of it is presumably minimal competition in this space. Otherwise, what's in it for Seagate?

It will likely be an indirect thing so MS fee is most likely a % cost rather than a flat fee, ultimately the delta above standard SSDs will be entirely informed by the form factor (very minor cost add) and the fee from MS