scooby_dooby
Legend
Here's a good comparison pick:
GamePro gets 360 Debug kit (power supply?)
- Thread starter Bad_Boy
- Start date
Mefisutoferesu
Regular
scooby_dooby said:Here's a good comparison pick:
Now this is something I've never understood with these comparison pictures. Would it kill someone to, Oh I don't know, USE A RULER IN THE COMPARISON!??! Sheesh, I've never seen the controller in reall life, so it honestly doesn't help me. I dunno know why people seem so set on using anything BUT a ruler.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Mefisutoferesu said:
well it's the same size as the current XBOX controller, only a little slimmer
Mefisutoferesu said:
I agree with this post. I think rulers are a scarce commodity now a days though....
USB ports are only specced for 500mA @ 5V (2.5W), so peripherals will be a negligible drain compared to the whole. Btw, I seriously doubt the 200W figure for the original box. Even assuming both the CPU and the GPU draws 50W each (which they certainly don't), the rest of the components wouldn't add up to the remainder by far.Powderkeg said:
randycat99
Veteran
If the 200 W figure was determined by reading the back of the Xbox case, then likely it is the AC power draw, not the DC power consumption of the actual console componentry (whereas the 200-ish W rating of the XB360 is the DC power consumption). This is the big problem as soon as we are comparing the "power ratings" of devices with internal power supplies with those with external power supplies. The "power rating" has a context that needs to accompany the power rating or comparisons are damn near pointless. Internal PSU devices typically cite the AC power draw, while external PSU's typically cite data to give both AC input power and DC output power. If someone is building a table of "power ratings" for different devices, but ignoring the AC or DC context, there is no guarantee the results have any basis for comparison.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok so from this picture. http://www.speed-is-everything.de/smartxx_xbx360-01.JPG
Max DC output wattage is 213W. At optimal AC-DC conversion is 70.7% efficiency, that would make the max consumed wattage ~300W. The brick says is consumes ~2.7A at 100-240V (notice the spelling mistake, 100V is standard in Japan), 300W/2.7A gives us ~110V which is the standard voltage for North America (not 120V, real RMS AC voltage is closer to 110V).
Max DC output wattage is 213W. At optimal AC-DC conversion is 70.7% efficiency, that would make the max consumed wattage ~300W. The brick says is consumes ~2.7A at 100-240V (notice the spelling mistake, 100V is standard in Japan), 300W/2.7A gives us ~110V which is the standard voltage for North America (not 120V, real RMS AC voltage is closer to 110V).
I think some people are getting confused. That brick is just an external PS. Inside that brick is probably a 150-200W PS like the kind used inside 1U rack blade servers. Yes compared to the "AC adaptors" for notebooks it looks big but there's nothing bizarre about it. As long as the cord is long enough for you to place the console on a table that's about 4ft high and the brick on the ground there shouldn't be a problem.
randycat99
Veteran
robofunk said:
That current rating is going to be different depending on if the PSU is set for 110 V or 240 V. So it's not exactly clear which voltage the given current rating applies to (hence, this will affect the power you calculate). Additionally, calculation of AC power from voltage and current has an "extra step" than calculation of DC power from voltage and current (P=IV applies directly for DC calculations). (I don't reject the results you have provided, outright, but I do see some points that are questionable.)
randycat99 said:
I contend that they used standard North American voltage to calculate/measure the ammount of AC current, they clearly indicate its an aproximate number anyway. I worked backwards from the DC wattage to calculate the AC wattage so the AC current doesn't really matter, I just wanted to back up my AC 300W claims. And 300W at 110V and 2.7A fits perfectly.
randycat99
Veteran
Yes, it does fit "perfectly", but you cannot calculate AC power like that anyway (to achieve the fit you have identified). 
That's the problem. If you at least account for the RMS AC effect like I did to come up with the 400 W AC figure earlier on, then your figure comes out to 200-ish W AC, which wouldn't make any sense as that implies a near 100% efficient power supply (which would further beg the question of why would you need 2 fans inside the PSU to vacate nonexistant waste heat in a near 100% efficient PSU?).
The label clearly specs the current rating in association with the 200-ish VAC, so that is really a hard thing to simply call a typo. I have no idea if Japan uses 100 VAC or not, so I give you some amount of leeway there. Either way, that's pretty bad to have a typo (let alone a typo that is "off" to that sheer degree) on an official label for an external PSU. Such an ambiguous association between voltage1/voltage2 and a current rating just seems bizarre (well which voltage do you think that current applies to? Whichever one you want...ah- that's not going to fly). That kind of belies the whole "safety" component of labeling a power supply.
That's the problem. If you at least account for the RMS AC effect like I did to come up with the 400 W AC figure earlier on, then your figure comes out to 200-ish W AC, which wouldn't make any sense as that implies a near 100% efficient power supply (which would further beg the question of why would you need 2 fans inside the PSU to vacate nonexistant waste heat in a near 100% efficient PSU?).The label clearly specs the current rating in association with the 200-ish VAC, so that is really a hard thing to simply call a typo. I have no idea if Japan uses 100 VAC or not, so I give you some amount of leeway there. Either way, that's pretty bad to have a typo (let alone a typo that is "off" to that sheer degree) on an official label for an external PSU.
Such an ambiguous association between voltage1/voltage2 and a current rating just seems bizarre (well which voltage do you think that current applies to? Whichever one you want...ah- that's not going to fly). That kind of belies the whole "safety" component of labeling a power supply.
Last edited by a moderator:
DigitalSoul
Regular
PC-Engine said:
Yes, PS3 is going to require additional generators.....
randycat99
Veteran
Heh, I'm glad you took a jab at that finally (i.e., I concur with your sarcasm). All this talk about ports, controllers, HD's...is just silly. I doubt any of that is even remotely contributing to the power consumptions we are examining here. All of these watts are going to power the sick CPU, GPU, RAM, and system bus incarnations that will epitomize "next gen"- plain and simple!
All this talk about ports, controllers, HD's...is just silly. I doubt any of that is even remotely contributing to the power consumptions we are examining here. All of these watts are going to power the sick CPU, GPU, RAM, and system bus incarnations that will epitomize "next gen"- plain and simple!
Last edited by a moderator:
randycat99 said:Yes, it does fit "perfectly", but you cannot calculate AC power like that anyway (to achieve the fit you have identified).
The label clearly specs the current rating in association with the 200-ish VAC, so that is really a hard thing to simply call a typo. I have no idea if Japan uses 100 VAC or not, so I give you some amount of leeway there. Either way, that's pretty bad to have a typo (let alone a typo that is "off" to that sheer degree) on an official label for an external PSU.
I would argue that 70% efficiency is around the standard for computer power supplies and that my calculations are completly valid. Computer PSU power rattings are inflated so it's not a good comparison.
http://www.cepe.ethz.ch/download/staff/bernard/28_formated.pdf
Edit: Also I'm sure it's a typo because a) Why would MS make a power supply just for Europe when all new Laptop power suplies work from 100-240V 50-60Hz, also everything is cheaper in volume so why not make one PSU for the entire world and b) the PSU states that it can run at frequencys from 47-63Hz, show me a 200V+ line that runs at 60Hz.
Last edited by a moderator:
randycat99
Veteran
computer power supplies, not just any power supply. Computer power supplies are typically switching power supplies, which also allows them to be quite compact. The looks of the XB360 PSU do not look particularly "compact" for 200 W of DC, hence it would be surprising to find it to be a switching design. It's not unusual to find a standard size PC PSU rated for 400 W of output that would be visually dwarfed by the that XB360 PSU. It just doesn't add up.
Either way, the 300 W AC rating you cite simply should not come out of the labeled numbers on the label of the PSU pic. That's all I'm saying. So you can presume the 70% efficiency to come up with 300 W, but you simply cannot say the AC voltage and current that is given support it, because that is the incorrect way to do an AC power calculation, period. That it matches up with the incorrect calculation, at all, should tell you the value is suspect.
Either way, the 300 W AC rating you cite simply should not come out of the labeled numbers on the label of the PSU pic. That's all I'm saying. So you can presume the 70% efficiency to come up with 300 W, but you simply cannot say the AC voltage and current that is given support it, because that is the incorrect way to do an AC power calculation, period. That it matches up with the incorrect calculation, at all, should tell you the value is suspect.
Last edited by a moderator:
randycat99
Veteran
robofunk said:
It seems clear it isn't just for Europe, since it's got Japanese writing all over it, as well. What is possible, is that the PSU is adaptable to numerous regions. What is labeled on the outside is simply the numbers for a particular modality. Once that is locked in for a single modality, it is assumed the numbers will change correspondingly for different voltage settings (as it can be derived quite easily from the original set of numbers, at that point). It's unlikely they are just going to mix numbers from different settings to present on the label, as that would not be useful to anybody.
There might be one at 50 Hz, which still falls in the specified range.
Last edited by a moderator: