*Game Development Issues*

[Fafalada]

So unless the MS "team" is better than the Sony one, both platforms ran the game as well as it could be run.

Which doesn't say much without a context.

 

[Gitaroo]

How did they manage to render 4xMSAA in Heavenly Sword? Does it not use HDR? Also, what about Uncharted? Do they both use FP10, FP16, or which one?

both games use nAo32 HDR I believe, like most first party games and thats how they got AA to work. Havent seen 1 ps3 games with FP 16 HDR that support AA.

 

[patsu]

Open world games like GTA4 are perhaps the toughest most hardware demanding style of games out there to implement

I am waiting for inFamous and Yakuza 3 to see what exclusive developers can do when they focus on one platform only.

GTA4 may be hardware demanding, but it may also be restrictive architecturally speaking since the devs need to compromise to accommodate both platforms' differences.

 

[wco81]

I don't know, it's only been two years since the PS3 release but I'm somewhat resigned to the fact that multiplatform games will fare better on the X360 the rest of this generation.

Looks like developers have already made their bets, more by default because X360 was out of the gate first -- that and tools that favor PC and X360 development.

If there are cases here and there where PS3 SKUs aren't noticeably inferior, it's a reason to be pleasantly surprised more than anything else.

Sony should plan accordingly when thinking about the next generation.

 

[patsu]

If there are cases here and there where PS3 SKUs aren't noticeably inferior, it's a reason to be pleasantly surprised more than anything else.

Yes, parity is what they hope to achieve I believe. They are almost there but not quite.

We encountered handicaps in AA, resolution, framerate, lighting, insufficient storage so far; but there are a few good examples.

 

[assen]

but when you look at inFamous and compare it to GTA4 you can't help but feel cheated.

First; Infamous hasn't been released yet, and what you've seen so far is part of the marketing; second, if it releases in 2009, it will have had ~18 months more in development than GTA.

 

[szymku]

First; Infamous hasn't been released yet, and what you've seen so far is part of the marketing; second, if it releases in 2009, it will have had ~18 months more in development than GTA.

How do you know when development of both games started

 

[DuckThor Evil]

While Infamous does look really interesting and I didn't really like GTA 4 eventhough I finished it, I have to wonder what is so special about Infamous compared to GTA The city is incredible in GTA 4, large and filled with small details, I doubt Infamous will achieve tha same.

 

[jlippo]

both games use nAo32 HDR I believe, like most first party games and thats how they got AA to work. Havent seen 1 ps3 games with FP 16 HDR that support AA.

Uncharted uses Nao32/LogLuv for main light accumlation buffer, but it also uses FP16 for rendering alpha and water.

 

[catisfit]

You're not being realistic. GTA IV took years to make. The developers would have had 360 devkits at least a year, probably closer to two, before they got equivalent PS3 equipment to work with. Perhaps you'd have been happier if they delayed the PS3 version for several months instead of releasing it day and date with the 360 game.

Certainly, the notion of comparing this project with first party games created from the ground up for PS3, and much smaller in scale and scope, doesn't quite compute.

Agreed. A much more interesting comparison would be with Burnout Paradise, a multiplatform sandbox game which has better IQ and framerate on PS3, and was released before GTA4.

 

[obonicus]

Agreed. A much more interesting comparison would be with Burnout Paradise, a multiplatform sandbox game which has better IQ and framerate on PS3, and was released before GTA4.

I think the games are at parity. (The demo wasn't, but wasn't that FR issue fixed before release?) Criterion's a pretty isolated case and still you'll get people making unverifiable claims that they gimped the 360 version to fit on the PS3. Also I think we're forgetting that Rockstar has never been a graphical powerhouse, I've always thought of them as creators of killer content -- even the 360 version of GTA4 has that weird texturing bug.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Yes, developing sandbox games are more complex then linear games, but when you look at inFamous and compare it to GTA4 you can't help but feel cheated.

Huh? GTA4's game world size and complexity are still unmatched... From what I've seen Infamous is a lot smaller and more simple...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I can't see any intelligence in comparing GTA4 to a game that isn't out yet! Until inFamous is released, we've no idea what Sucker Punch have or have not managed. How's about we stick to discussing games that are out, or the same game on different consoles...

 

[patsu]

Exactly. That's why I said "wait for inFamous and Yakuza 3 to be out". There are a few good examples already out there (with slightly better PS3 version even).

The cross-platform developers have learned more along the way although there may be project-related issues blocking progress. e.g., The PS3 Bioshock guys splitted the assets between the 2 memory pools to avoid duplication; but a post on their official forum claimed that the devs ran out of time SPU-lize the source partly due to bug fixing the old code (without much help from the original team). If they have agreed to patch the texture issues, then time may indeed be the limiting factor, rather than hardware in some of these cases.

 

[Dominik D]

How do you know when development of both games started

inFamous was announced in July 2007 which means it was already in preproduction. For how long? Previous Sucker Punch game was Sly 3 (Sep 2005) so since late 2006 at least. If the game hits May 2009, that's 2.5+ years of dev.

GTA development started Nov 2004. Game got released on two platforms Apr 2008. That's 3.5 years.

But that's irrelavant in two ways.
1. You compare games to games it got released with head-to-head. inFamous doesn't compete with GTA4 for market.
2. This is _Multiplatform Development Issues_ so could you please stop talking about console exclusives in this thread? Thank you.

 

[Rockster]

Lot of exclusive talk creeping into this thread. IMHO, multiplatform game comparisons are the only valid ones. Trying to use exclusive content as an example of what is possible, is meaningless when budget, skill, design, content, time, etc. will never equal another title. Not to mention its impossible to prove that the same result couldn't be achieved on the opposing platform given similar parameters.

EDIT: Result of posting at work. Sitting in the compose screen for 30 minutes before submitting and I end up a day late and dollar short. Delete away.

 

[patsu]

The thread turned into an exclusive game discussion only because I mentioned that cross platform games may not be good indication of hardware limitations. There may be project related matters, extra time needed to workaround weird architecture, as well as different ways to skin a cat that makes it harder to do on one platform.

EDIT: AlStrong, you forgot to delete wco81's post containing my buying habits
Basically, I bought the games because I have waited for too long.

 

[AlNom]

Pruning and tuning.

Removed a few things. Left in people's responses to wanting to discuss multiplatform because it might veer OT all over again if all of it were removed and newcomers didn't see it happen in the past... something something 1.21gigawatts.

 

[Silent]

Stuff like character faces disappearing seems to hint that they just ran out of time. That's the problem with shipping games this time of year, the ship date is completely inflexible because publishers absolutely want the product on the shelf before thanksgiving no matter what. I don't envy any developer that has a late October release date that's for sure.

I never understand why publishers do that. Is it because they think that the consumer doesn’t notice such things or isn’t good informed?

One thing I noticed here when walking in some stores in Brussels that bad PS3 ports tend to drop in price rapidly because people doesn’t seem to be very reluctant to buy these games. You should have witnessed the price evolution (and the speed of the drop) of the PS3 version of the orange box.

 

[wco81]

In the era of patches to console games, running out of time shouldn't be an excuse.

They should be able to address these issues after release.