FarticusMaximus
Newcomer
In the real world (i.e. not on tech forums) there is virtually no crossover between PC gamers and console gamers.
I really don't see PC releases cannibalising console game sales to any significant degree.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
If you're talking about the demographics that makeup the majority of PC gamers in terms of dollars spent, i.e. MMO and MOBA players, then you may be right.
However those gamers are irrelevant to the AAA console games market because they don't play those games anyway.
If you're talking about the cross-section of the PC gaming market that buy and play AAA console-type games on PC, then no... there's likely to be a significant number of them who also own one or more consoles for obvious reasons.
Maybe not, but Microsoft is on the record stating they think it does (for Germany and presumably other parts of Europe).
Silent_Buddha
Legend
No there is very little crossover. There are people that have PCs that game in MMOs, but do all the rest of their gaming on console. And there are people that do all their gaming on PC. The previous category I'd call console gamers still, while the latter I'd call PC gamers.
And then there are people that buy some games on console, while mostly getting games on PC. There are far far fewer of these than the above.
Ask yourself how many people have their PC hooked up to their living room TV and you'll get a rough idea of how many console sales are lost due to a console title being available on PC.
That was back around the launch of the XBOX when Microsoft had to convince people that the XBOX wasn't just a PC in a console. And that was only of relevance to the XBOX. PS2 console title sales didn't suffer when there was a PC version available, for example. PC sales are almost always an addition to existing sales versus taking away sales.
The one exception comes in the form of piracy. But it was relatively easy to pirate on the PS2 back then anyway, so no reason to spend 1000+ USD just to be able to pirate the PC version.
Regards,
SB
We will see what happens with windows 10. I would assume through the xbox app you will purchase games for both the pc and xbox. Cross play between them along with perhaps buy once play anywhere would go along way of getting people to buy on the store.
A lot of people claim steam is amazing but I use steam and origin and I don't see a difference between the two , origin has morphed into a very capable system.
So MS is surely able to build one themselves. The carrot will be exclusive games just like it was on origin
A lot of people claim steam is amazing but I use steam and origin and I don't see a difference between the two , origin has morphed into a very capable system.
So MS is surely able to build one themselves. The carrot will be exclusive games just like it was on origin
That was also when PC wasn't as strong as it is nowadays in gaming.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion?
Might I ask how one would justify such an assumption, given that the vast majority of PC gamers are the ones who play MMOs and MOBAs, and the rest who don't, play AAA console games, therefore it follows logically that if you're into those kinds of games you're likely to also have at least one of the three consoles.
You're comment about PC hooked up to the TV I didn't really understand what you were getting at there. I have my PC (i5 + AMD R9 280x) hooked up to my TV and I also have a two consoles. If you like console-type games then you're more than likely to have a console, whether you have a dedicated gaming PC or not.
Many PC gamers are console gamers who already have a powerful PC for work/other reasons. Very few people actually build high gaming desktops these days, and so this market is pretty irrelevant to both MS and the overal PC gaming market. Point is, you don't need a massive super powerful gaming desktop to play AAA-console games these days. A fairly good laptop will do for most who game on PC, and these are devices most people already own.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
But it doesn't. The people that play AAA games on console while playing MMO's and MOBA's on PC are generally those that don't have a PC powerful enough to play more AAA games. I have plenty of those in the FFXIV guild I'm currently in. They play FFXIV and LoL on PC. And everything else on console because their PC is bad. I consider them console gamers. A PC version of a AAA console title won't detract from the console game sales. This also extends to some other RL friends that still play EQ2. They play EQ2 or Rift or LOTRO and maybe a MOBA or two on their PC and everything else on console. A PC Version of a game on console will not lead to a loss of sales of the console version because they aren't ever going to buy the PC version. Oh, and that FFXIV guild has a few PS4 only players. I expect as more MMOs make their way to console, less of this category of people will play them on PC.
Likewise you have PC players with beefy PC's capable of playing all the latest games. Those players rarely, if ever, touch a console. Consoles are beneath them. It doesn't matter if the console has an exclusive that looks fun. They aren't going to buy a console. The only way they'd ever buy a console is if PC gaming didn't exist. In other words, a PC version of a game again won't diminish console gaming revenue because they were never going to buy a console game in the first place. The PC version is almost purely additive.
Which leads me to the thing that seperates most PC and console gamers. Gaming in the living room. People that prefer to game in the living room or are on a budget tend to be console gamers.
People that play on a powerful PC generally aren't gaming in the living room and certainly aren't on a budget (or at least the same sort of budget as console gamers, by and large).
So, what subset of PC gamer's detract from console sales? Mostly the few that actually connect their PC to the TV (rare) and have a PC connected to their TV that is powerful enough to play all the AAA releases (extremely rare). And then you have the occasional odd-ball that has both a powerful PC and is well enough off enough that they buy a console to play 1-2 games (exclusives) on it per year. Again, not even remotely close to be a large segment of the PC gaming community.
Sure, but in your example with people with MMOs and MOBAs, many of them are playing on 4-8 year old computers which originally only cost 500-600 USD. MMOs with all graphical settings set to low. And MOBA's don't need anything more than integrated graphics. Neither of which are going to be able to run Assassin's Creed Unity, for example. Yes, there are exceptions. People with beefy rigs playing them (like me), but also like me, they buy all their AAA games on PC and wouldn't even think of buying them on console.
I was one of the people that was well off enough that I bought a console just to play 1-2 games a year on it. But now, I'm not even willing to do that anymore, with the exception of handhelds.
Even back when far more console games never made it to PC and far more PC games never made it to console, you didn't have a lot of people gaming on both PC AND console.
The one timeframe where there may have been an exception is when the original XBOX launched. That one convinced many formerly PC gamers to give consoles a try as many of their PC developers started to make games on the XBOX. They gamed on both up until the time they had to upgrade their PC, at which point most of them stopped gaming on the PC.
Regards,
SB
That doesn't apply to me. I can't stand MMO's and I don't even know what a MOBA is, but I love action/adventure/shooter type games and even the occasional fighter/racer (I'm steering away from describing these as "AAA console games" because I don't think that's a fair categorization, in this generation at least they're simply multiplatform games). And that's the reason why I don't have a console, there's just no need for one if you have a decent PC unless you're really into particular consoles exclusives.
Incidentally I do also have my PC in the living room and connected to the TV (as well as a monitor). However 95% of my gaming is still done at the monitor. It's bigger (perspective wise) and it means I (or the wife or vice versa) can have the TV on at the same time. Best of all worlds IMO.
To make it clearer think of LoL/Dota/Dota 2.
Some people in this thread think the market is very simple and can be broken down into two categories, but I think it's more nuanced and without data I wouldn't jump to conclusions. For example, my situation hasn't been described here. I have a PC more powerful than the consoles and consoles. I buy single player games based on if it seems a better fit for my office or the living room, but for multiplayer games the platform of choice depends on what friends buy the game. My situation might not be typical, but without scientific data I'm not convinced I or anyone else know what's typical.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
Sorry SB but this is laughable. This super clean cut distinction you make between PC and Console gamers more than likely doesn't exist at all. There's probably far more overlap than you seem to want to believe. You categorise it as if a PC gamer with a beefy machine cannot possibly like any console exlcusive game and buy a console additionally for that purpose. Whereas I posit that the majority of console and PC gamers more than likely are fans of games before they are fans of platforms. The super elitist PC gamer you describe here probably makes up so little a cross-section of the total PC gaming market that he or she can be easily ignored.
You also make these assertions with no data, when of course I also don't have much to back up my stance but I would raise the German market as example to counter your point. Last gen, Germany was predominantly a PC gaming market, as suggested by all the major european VG analyst outfits. Now however it seems that market is skewing console this gen, with Germany being a far more significant market both in terms of console and console games sales this gen than ever before. Why, the suggestion is PC gamers turning to consoles and buying PS4s. Did PC gaming cease to exist between this gen and last? Of course not.
Additionally, one only needs to look at the results of Steam HW surveys, and sales of dedicated GPUs to know that most PC gamers don't even have the beefiest GPUs on the market. And so for many, it's a question of can your GPU play game X better than a console, if so then buy game X on PC, otherwise buy game X on console; provided console-type games are the desired game in question.
FarticusMaximus
Newcomer
All I have is anecdotal evidence, but I know a LOT of gamers and apart from the MMO/MOBA situation they are either PC or console gamers. Very few are both.
The reasons behind virtually all their decisions to stick to one platform has nothing to do with graphics capabilities. Ecosystem/friends, control preferences, living room availability, software catalogue, financial status. These things are platform deciders for them.
I have a PC that can easily put my console to shame, yet I don't play games on it (apart from WoW although I did quit that several years ago), for many reasons. None of them to do with the graphical capability of the machines.
The reasons behind virtually all their decisions to stick to one platform has nothing to do with graphics capabilities. Ecosystem/friends, control preferences, living room availability, software catalogue, financial status. These things are platform deciders for them.
I have a PC that can easily put my console to shame, yet I don't play games on it (apart from WoW although I did quit that several years ago), for many reasons. None of them to do with the graphical capability of the machines.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
I have a PC that can put my console to shame, and I use it for some AAA games, some PC exclusives and city builder sim games. I have two consoles and play AAA console games and some exclusives on those.
MOst of the people I know who have gaming-capable PCs also own consoles. They play different genres of games on PC from what they play on console, or some play mostly MP-focussed games on consoles, e.g. Destiny, COD etc. Anecdotal sure, but it just illustrates the point that your situation isn't the same as every else's across the entire market.
MOst of the people I know who have gaming-capable PCs also own consoles. They play different genres of games on PC from what they play on console, or some play mostly MP-focussed games on consoles, e.g. Destiny, COD etc. Anecdotal sure, but it just illustrates the point that your situation isn't the same as every else's across the entire market.
Anecdote, I've reconsidered my view on the progress of PCs as becoming more user friendly. An update of my graphics driver, which didn't work through Windows update, broke the login and stopped input working (finally traced to having a tablet plugged in and charging). And Rogue Legacy runs at an abysmal framerate in full screen until I swap to windowed and back again, when it magically runs at 60 fps.
PC's still have their annoying broken behaviours, it seems, and you need some decent PC know-how to tame them.
PC's still have their annoying broken behaviours, it seems, and you need some decent PC know-how to tame them.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
For some, this is a legitimate reason to own both. And many will.
Also not all consoles are made equal. Some will own a PC and play PSXB1 games on that, and then also go and buy a WiiU for Nintendo games.
Some will own a PC and then also buy a dedicated portable console like a Vita or 3DS for JRPGs.
How big or small this overlap is is anyone's guess. But I'd be willing to put money on it the dual PC/console market being larger than the PC Only market for console type games.
Anyway, I think I've taken this a little OT. The original point was if MS released it's exclusives on PC could they canibalise Xbox revenues. I would argue that they can, as gamers like me who own a PS4 or WiiU and don't intend to buy an XB1, but see and want to play Halo 5, will choose to play it on PC instead of being tempted to pick up an XB1.
I accept I may be wrong on the extent of gamers that are like me, since there's very little data available either way. But as MJP stated previously, MS were surely convinced it was too.
