So it just chooses settings for every game for you via profiles? Why would they need hardware for that?
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Actually for the Metro app store it is far more restrictive than that.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh694083.aspxsi
That should be the latest guidelines. And apparently it now restricts based on standard ratings boards.
PEGI 16 and up are not allowed.
ESRB Mature and above are not allowed.
Not being rated doesn't excuse an app. either. MS will look at the level of violence, nudity, language, etc. to determine if an unrated title meets the ratings demands.
So, only PEGI 12, ESRB everyone 10+, or Windows Store 12+ and lower are allowed in the store. That's going to cut out a lot of "core" games on its own. Basically anything sold there must be appropriate to be viewed by a 12 year old.
There used to also be restrictions on the size of your app package, but I didn't see it when I went through that page briefly. Although I think this addresses that.
Which pretty much means, it must be small and lightweight. That eliminates all AAA titles and many independent titles in Steam.
In other words, Steam really has almost nothing to fear from the Metro, excuse me, Windows Store (as it is now called).
For the same reason Apple doesn't allow you to install any hardware you want. Hardware drivers can become a significant issue once you start introducing user's being able to install any hardware they choose.
Microsoft has invested significant resources in time and money to ensure it can work with as much hardware as possible. Apple are unwilling or unable to do this. After all, a large part of having wide hardware availability is convincing hardware manufacturer's to make and provide drivers for the hardware you want to use. Just look at the state of Linux with regards to drivers. It's better than it was 10 years ago, but it's still rather than hit or miss, especially when you get to less popular pieces of hardware.
I don't image Valve will be wanting to invest quite that much money and effort into not only developing an OS (expensive and time consuming) but then also the effort to support a multitude of hardware devices (as expensive or more so than developing an OS).
Regards,
SB
I'm in agreement with the people that say this will basically be PC hardware running a custom light-weight linux distro with the linux Steam client. It will basically be setup to run like a media center/console. It will have fixed hardware except for maybe RAM and hard drive upgrades. It'll come with some kind of gamepad. They do a cert process to make sure games run well on it, but they'll also run on any custom PC running the OS, as long as the user is willing to accept the trade in stability. I'm sure they'll do the cross play sales thing, where you buy a copy of the game and you'll have access to the Windows, Mac and "SteamOS" variants with a single purchase. Doesn't hurt the hardcore guys that want the bells and whistles, but offers a stable PC platform for all the people that want something that just works out of the box and is simple to setup and consume content.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
So basically its just a PC in a smaller box, but with the added disadvantage of not being able to upgrade the most important components for the sake of it having "stable" performance with all the biggest games.
I still don't see the appeal. It's a fixed HW platform for the sake of having a fixed HW platform yet without the benefits of a fixed HW platform that consoles enjoy. Devs and pubs will still develop for the range of PC HW configs, and the steambox will get no special treatment.
If valve decide to lock down the software so that it only does Steam UI and games then it loses the appeal and functionality of a PC. If they only semi-lock it down so that a normal windows OS can be installed then it becomes a weird half-way house between PC and console that is basically a PC but with only very few of the advantages of PC gaming.
Sounds like a purely niche product that i can't imagine anyone wanting to actually buy. It should either just be a pre-built gaming PC with a valve sticker on the side, or valve should go all the way and develop a full console to compete with MS, Sony and Nintendo in the console space. What they're currently proposing won't ever compete with consoles.
I still don't see the appeal. It's a fixed HW platform for the sake of having a fixed HW platform yet without the benefits of a fixed HW platform that consoles enjoy. Devs and pubs will still develop for the range of PC HW configs, and the steambox will get no special treatment.
If valve decide to lock down the software so that it only does Steam UI and games then it loses the appeal and functionality of a PC. If they only semi-lock it down so that a normal windows OS can be installed then it becomes a weird half-way house between PC and console that is basically a PC but with only very few of the advantages of PC gaming.
Sounds like a purely niche product that i can't imagine anyone wanting to actually buy. It should either just be a pre-built gaming PC with a valve sticker on the side, or valve should go all the way and develop a full console to compete with MS, Sony and Nintendo in the console space. What they're currently proposing won't ever compete with consoles.
But with the added advantage that those games you buy you can also play on your PC. That's the benefit of hardware abstraction. All those people worried about not being to take their XBLive or PSN titles onto the next console, with a small PC that's not an issue.
Everyone already has a PC. Many folk already have a tablet for doing lots of the tasks PCs used to do. There's nothing wrong with th box having limited software as long as the value is there. eg. If a £300 console only plays games, a £300 PC that only plays games is the same value proposition. Valve would be no more required to make their CPU+GPU+RAM in their box run Word and PhotoShop as Ms and Sony would be expected to make their collection of computer componentry run the same.
It's too early to say it's a niche product when we don't really know what the platform is yet! But why do you think they should make a console? A full-on closed platform console is a huge risk that's almost guaranteed to fail (and would be exactly the same product potentially as a customised PC, only with a locked down OS). What they are trying to do is offer PC gaming in a Joe Consumer friendly platform. For all we know it'll be a full PC with a custom boot screen into something like the XMB menu or Media Centre, and the option to return to Windows. It's too early to judge the value of the offer when nothing is really known about it. The only certainty is it's not going to be a full, closed console, because that'd be suicide.
If you don't have known hardware to work off of, how would you know which profile to set for a particular game? There's easily tens of thousands of combinations of (still) popular graphics cards, CPUs, RAM amounts, OSes out there. Clearly way too many to profile.
Because it is easier to test and adjust just a game in a CPU, a graphic card, an amount of ram; than in the N amount of combinations for X CPUs, Y graphic cards and Z amount of ram.
PD. I have seen Grall explained better than me.
I don't know, why do people purchase Mac computers instead of a PC and installing MacOS on top ?
I would think for the same reason people could purchase the steambox.
(Convenience, strong guarantee on compatibility, maybe even steambox specific game settings, steam/valve being big enough to make devs consider it.)
I would think for the same reason people could purchase the steambox.
(Convenience, strong guarantee on compatibility, maybe even steambox specific game settings, steam/valve being big enough to make devs consider it.)
I don't really see the difference between releasing a small PC running a streamlined linux for gaming and releasing custom hardware and software for the same purpose. The only difference I can think of is that in the PC case, the games would also run on Linux using other x86 platform hardware.
I have no interest in building a gaming PC, but I'm interested in the concept of a Steam console, even if those games would run on a custom PC as well. The beauty of it is that they can set it up in a way that if the hardware fails the games will still be playable by the millions of gamers that already have PCs. Also, they could have a pretty strong launch lineup. You all know what game I'm talking about.
if valve pc is upgradeable and can be used as general purpose pc out of the box and good to be used on big Tv, it will safe me from headache every few years that friend or family member want to buy pc.
yo, I need pc for game/movie/office works/3d modeling/whatever
I'll just recommend valve pc with a bit customized spec. maybe a bit overkill for office but they usually want their pc not only good for MS word but also some game when they buy them
yo, I need pc for game/movie/office works/3d modeling/whatever
I'll just recommend valve pc with a bit customized spec. maybe a bit overkill for office but they usually want their pc not only good for MS word but also some game when they buy them
From the interview, it doesn't sound like the Valve pc will be able to be customized, but there's nothing stopping you, or another company, from building a PC that boots into the Steam.
""Well certainly our hardware will be a very controlled environment," he said. "If you want more flexibility, you can always buy a more general purpose PC. For people who want a more turnkey solution, that's what some people are really gonna want for their living room."
http://kotaku.com/5966860/gabe-newell-living-room-pcs-will-compete-with-next+gen-consoles
I'm curious to know what kind of upgrade cycle Valve would be targeting, if the hardware is a "controlled environment." Will there be a new box every five years or less? Maybe it will support upgrades, but drivers will be controlled so you can't upgrade to anything other than standardized upgrade components.
""Well certainly our hardware will be a very controlled environment," he said. "If you want more flexibility, you can always buy a more general purpose PC. For people who want a more turnkey solution, that's what some people are really gonna want for their living room."
http://kotaku.com/5966860/gabe-newell-living-room-pcs-will-compete-with-next+gen-consoles
I'm curious to know what kind of upgrade cycle Valve would be targeting, if the hardware is a "controlled environment." Will there be a new box every five years or less? Maybe it will support upgrades, but drivers will be controlled so you can't upgrade to anything other than standardized upgrade components.
Seems like the wrong time to launch something like this with next gen consoles on the way. Is valve going to create a loss leading piece of hardware ? Sony and MS will put out very powerful boxes at a low price next year. I don't see valve doing that at all. So whats the point. Valve also doesn't have the stable of exclusives that MS and sony will have
I doubt they will sell as cheap as the other consoles, or at a loss. They make tons of money selling content through Steam. They do not need to sell 50 million consoles to do a good business. If they sold 10-20 million, they'd probably be happy. From the interview, it sounds like they plan to launch in 2013. I don't think exclusives would be a problem. There are already a lot of PC exclusives, at least from indie and small developers.
The thing is they could just release profiles for popular configurations from oems (dell, Asus, acer etc). Steam certified pc or whatever, no need to get into the hardware business if you're not going to make an effort to actually compete with consoles there is no point in taking the financial risk.
Well that statement strengthens what I said.
i.e. if only 3% of the user base use mac but a quarter of the games are playable on mac.
porting a game from mac -> linux is easy (if its written good).
Ive ported a > 100k LOC game from windows to linux. total time to port? 1 hour I kid you not, the only thing that needed fixing were case sensitivity file names. opengl, openal, sdl for the win.
I recently read PC shipments were down 8% in the last quarter, the chief reason? tablets.
considering 99% of tablet/phone games use opengl for the graphics API & mac sales growing ever onward, a lot of games will be easy to port.
yes this is also what I think is their primary motive
Nope.
We don't know that. 18 CU/2 TFlop machines aren't amazingly powerful. We've no idea what price they are targeting, or what extras they ahve at what costs (eg. Kinect 2, or Vita controllers for PS4).
1. Provide existing Steam users a console that plays their existing library
2. Offer a platform that can offer console gamers an upgrade path 2/4/6 years into next gen
3. Compete on features and services, which is what the next boxes will be competing on anyway, unless MS sells at a massive loss to go with the price advantage.
4. Provide current-gen games with a much better experience. eg. If you want to play Borderlands 2 now, or Battlefields, or COD, the Steambox will play them much better, whereas the XB3 and PS4 likely won't play them at all.
5. Give console gamers the option to also game on PC, providing a hardware synergy that offers value, and also a BC path that means the games they buy now will always be playable at no extra cost, unlike the consoles that like to resell old games made compatible.
The top selling games are typically cross-platform. Steam has of plenty exclusives too, even if indie titles. But the Steambox software will be a hell of a lot cheaper in the long run. See my thread on the costs of switching to PC - any hardcore console gamer buying lots of multiplat titles will save a bundle with a Steambox and buying from Steam.
It would be interesting to see how many of these developers, some of which haven't been willing to add code support for things like controllers, DX11, newer msaa solutions, or basically any code upgrades at all on the pc sku presumably as they deemed it financially not worth it, will they now be willing to take on a new Linux sku and the development/financial/support/marketing responsibilities that come with it. All that to put it on a platform that charges them 30%, when windows store charges 20% and runs their existing sku. Seems like a bit of a stretch to me to just expect publishers to all hop onto yet another development platform unless the terms are exceptional and user growth can be guaranteed.
This product is probably the only way I'll switch back into PC gaming. I'm definitely interested. There's a few features I'd like to see added to Steam, but overall I think having a standardized target for minimum spec, at reasonable performance, will be a very good thing for pc gaming. Only thing that makes me weary about PC gaming is playing against the general PC population, and all that entails in terms of multiplayer game hacks in shooters etc. The hardware itself could turn out to be a very good. If Valve sells the unit to break even, you might be getting hardware at a price that's lower than if you were to buy the pieces individually at retail prices. So a well-built $500-600 "console" could be hardware that I'd have to spend a few hundred dollars more to buy on my own.
Hell, if they make sequels for Left 4 Dead, Day of Defeat, Counter-strike or Half-Life timed exclusives, then I'll have a really hard time saying no, especially if they can play custom maps and mods like any normal PC copy would.
One thing I'm not sure about. How would a game like Battlefield work? It's basically Origin only right now, and how would this console support that? If I can't get Battlefield on it, I don't want it. EA Dice isn't going to make a PC version of Battlefield that doesn't use their own matching/social platform.
Hell, if they make sequels for Left 4 Dead, Day of Defeat, Counter-strike or Half-Life timed exclusives, then I'll have a really hard time saying no, especially if they can play custom maps and mods like any normal PC copy would.
One thing I'm not sure about. How would a game like Battlefield work? It's basically Origin only right now, and how would this console support that? If I can't get Battlefield on it, I don't want it. EA Dice isn't going to make a PC version of Battlefield that doesn't use their own matching/social platform.
