Future of 3D gaming and media *spawn

[corduroygt]

corduroygt, did you see these on a Plasma TV or an LCD TV ? Does the 3D effect help in driving ?

Saw it on my LCD, that I scored for the same price as a non-3D LCD, so it was a no brainer.
It's way too straining on the eyes to help my driving on GT5, but I didn't spend much time on it. It's also extremely silly that to adjust the parallax and 3D seperation you have to go to a menu, and then it's a lot of loading time to get to a race to see how your changes worked out.

It also doesn't help that my TV seems to have a nag screen that I have to press OK every time 3D is activated. Hopefully there's a way to disable that.

 

[Rangers]

One thing I noticed was the big black Friday sales hype was far more around 2D sets. The Best Buy add would be multiple pages in the front of huge screen 2D LCD's (which are now crazy cheap, 46" screens rapidly hitting the $600 sweet spot), and maybe a page in the back of 3D sets. So I'm sure this was a conscious decision on the retailers parts, for whatever reason, but I found it interesting. I guess it just comes down to the obvious, too early/expensive for 3D. I think a lot of people dont even have the big screen flat panel yet. Or maybe they have a smaller set purchased early in the HDTV era.

 

[patsu]

Could be any reason. They may have more old HDTVs to get rid of before CES 2011. From the manufacturers' perspective, they may not want to discount the new GoogleTVs, 3DTVs, and larger 2DTVs further. You can already get rather generous freebies from 3DTV bundles for example.

Saw it on my LCD, that I scored for the same price as a non-3D LCD, so it was a no brainer.
It's way too straining on the eyes to help my driving on GT5, but I didn't spend much time on it. It's also extremely silly that to adjust the parallax and 3D seperation you have to go to a menu, and then it's a lot of loading time to get to a race to see how your changes worked out.

It also doesn't help that my TV seems to have a nag screen that I have to press OK every time 3D is activated. Hopefully there's a way to disable that.

How is MotorStorm different ?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

My issue with your post was more with respect to you seemingly basing your opinion on the entire report by the four or so public data points mentioned in that piece.

How could you take umbridge with me basing opinions on the Nielsen report based on a few points, when I was complaining about poor journalism? Are you saying remarks like:

But the dream of delivering 3-D video into consumer homes is one that probably won’t be realized — at least not anytime soon, and most likely not in North America.

In addition to the meager showing of interested 3DTV buyers in America, there’s also the percentage that are outright opposed to owning a 3DTV, it seems. Nearly 60 percent of respondents said they would not be purchasing 3-D sets (no mention of "in the next twelve months"), compared to a third of respondents worldwide that said they wouldn’t invest in 3-D for the home.

...are valid observations from the report findings, well supported with meaningful research? Is this, in your opinion, good journalism, or is it classic FUD from someone with a viewpoint who doesn't want to look at data with an open mind?

 

[RobertR1]

I'd love to see the sales of the glasses. To me, that's the real interest gauge. If I'm in the market for a flagship model, I more or less don't have an option for 3D. It'll come with 3D and ofcourse the manufacturer will tout this as a 3D sale. The real test is, did I buy additional glasses? and how many?

Personally, I wouldn't trade my current set for any 3D capable TV out there. I'm much more interested in improved 2D performance going forward. However, 2011 will be all about 3D as a big do or die effort from the CE's thus 2D performance updates will likely be incremental (I hope to be wrong as I'll be in the market for another set!).

From the enthusiast side, on avsforum.com, the interest in 3D is low compared to the interest in HD DVD/BR when they first came out.

 

[patsu]

You won't get an accurate number because the 3D glasses are bundled usually. A pair or 2 are usually good enough, and additional ones are too expensive. I believe one of the earlier surveys already highlighted that consumers want the incremental cost of glasses to be lower.

In 2011, GoogleTV will also try to make another rush. ^_^
3D won't be the only thing CE vendors bang on because it's a long term thing.

In any case, technologies to reduce ghosting and response time in 3D LCD TV will automatically benefit 2DTV. So I don't think the manufacturers see them differently. One of the posts on B3D mentioned that Plasma TV (3D capable) has a reduced color range, so improvement in this area will benefit both 2D and 3D displays also.

The 3D content providers will have a harder time justifying for their early involvement.

 

[corduroygt]

How is MotorStorm different ?

The 3D effect has much more depth to it, the smoke, mud coming out of your car is right in front of your eye, and as you pass trees, grass, etc, they come right at you.
Motorstorm is really a treat in 3D and I'm excited for MS3 for that reason.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

So when costs go down, interest will go up. I'm not sure why this is such an odd concept to you.

Sure if you ignore the fact that over half of potential customers aren't interested as long as glasses are involved.

...are valid observations from the report findings, well supported with meaningful research? Is this, in your opinion, good journalism, or is it classic FUD from someone with a viewpoint who doesn't want to look at data with an open mind?

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire...high-interest-in-3dtv-but-cite-some-concerns/

If you go to less bombastic and sensationlist sources (short of purchasing the research report), it's very legitimate and valid. The 12 month purchasing considerations are directly from the report.

The 3 key sticking points were...

1. Cost (68%) - unlikely to change significantly since the whole reason Sony and others want 3D to take off is so they regain high margins that have eroded the past few years due to strong competition in the flat panel TV market. Then again, if noone wants to buy your 3D TV sets, they may have no choice.
2. Glasses (57%) - again unlikely to change in the next 5-10 years. There currently aren't any trouble free 3D display systems that either don't require glasses or don't require users to sit in specific locations (Nintendo 3DS still requires you to be in a specific location in relation to the screen).
3. Availability of programming/content (44%) - and we're not just talking Movies and Games. The biggest thing that will change this is TV programming and content. This is the only thing I can see changing significantly, but it will take time and a LOT of money. So I don't see this changing significantly until [1] and [2] change.

But the study couldn't deal with other potential problems. Problems that only arise with prolonged use.

It's also interesting to note that in countries with less exposure to 3D (African and S.American countries for example) interest was higher than in countries with high exposure to 3D (America, Canada and some European countries for example).

Analysts speculate that the greater exposure to 3D TV sets in stores influences desire for 3D TV negatively. In other words, being able to try it and discover the costs and inconveniences (glasses) involved tend to sour a persons overall desire for something new and interesting.

Sort of like the difference between asking someone.

1. Do you like the idea of being able to view 3D content in your home?
versus
2. Do you like the idea of spending 1000-5000 USD and putting on a pair of glasses (another 100-200 USD each) for each person watching in order to view 3D content in your home?

So it's like sure, I think 3D is neat. And then they try it and look at what's involved, and suddenly it doesn't seem quite so neat.

Regards,
SB

 

[Toaddio]

Sure if you ignore the fact that over half of potential customers aren't interested as long as glasses are involved.

Isn't a glasses free 3DTV being released in Japan before the end of this calendar year?

 

[corduroygt]

I finally got a decent setting for GT5, with parallax 9 and convergence 0.50. I have to admit it looks decent now. It's still not the "in your face" 3D the average consumer expects though, and anything that pops out of the screen looks far more impressive than the 3D that goes into the screen.

 

[patsu]

The 3 key sticking points were...

1. Cost (68%) - unlikely to change significantly since the whole reason Sony and others want 3D to take off is so they regain high margins that have eroded the past few years due to strong competition in the flat panel TV market. Then again, if noone wants to buy your 3D TV sets, they may have no choice.

>_< Cost will always go down. As per normal, they can only keep margin high during the early adopter period. In addition, as new models get released, old models will reduce price. It will go down enough for mainstream consumers to buy them.

2. Glasses (57%) - again unlikely to change in the next 5-10 years. There currently aren't any trouble free 3D display systems that either don't require glasses or don't require users to sit in specific locations (Nintendo 3DS still requires you to be in a specific location in relation to the screen).

There will be a mixed of 3D experiences. It's not difficult to stream or copy 3D movie from PS3 (or a Blu-ray player) to a 3D-capable tablet or pad or portable console. For living room experience, yes you'll need glasses for best effect. 3DS require your eyes to be within certain viewing angles.

3. Availability of programming/content (44%) - and we're not just talking Movies and Games. The biggest thing that will change this is TV programming and content. This is the only thing I can see changing significantly, but it will take time and a LOT of money. So I don't see this changing significantly until [1] and [2] change.

Content creation will take a few years to pan out. Cable and satellite providers in a few countries are already delivering 3D content in small scale.

In any case, 3D is a natural next step from 2D. I'm glad they all synchronize their effort. Since content takes time to make, today is as good as any other day to start -- as long as the vendors can find ways to sustain themselves. Along the way, the early companies will develop expertise/products to make new 3D content faster and cheaper. It's a complex and old ecosystem, so consumers and content providers will need to advance in lock step.

 

[patsu]

I finally got a decent setting for GT5, with parallax 9 and convergence 0.50. I have to admit it looks decent now. It's still not the "in your face" 3D the average consumer expects though, and anything that pops out of the screen looks far more impressive than the 3D that goes into the screen.

What TV brand are you using ?

Does MotorStorm require the same setting ? Or is it set up differently ?

 

[corduroygt]

What TV brand are you using ?

Does MotorStorm require the same setting ? Or is it set up differently ?

I'm using a Toshiba 55WX800...There are no other games that I've seen that let you adjust the settings besides GT5. It's whatever the game defaults to.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire...high-interest-in-3dtv-but-cite-some-concerns/

I already linked to that report.

If you go to less bombastic and sensationlist sources (short of purchasing the research report), it's very legitimate and valid. The 12 month purchasing considerations are directly from the report.

12 month. The way the gigaom article was phrased suggested America would never accept 3D, writing it off without any scope for advancements in tech and reduced pricing etc.

There are lots of barriers to 3D, I've always recognised. I'm not going to call the tech dead forever though. Might just be a slow burner with a fairly limited niche, or might explode next gen with all TVs coming with 3D as standard and all games supporting.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I already linked to that report.

12 month. The way the gigaom article was phrased suggested America would never accept 3D, writing it off without any scope for advancements in tech and reduced pricing etc.

There are lots of barriers to 3D, I've always recognised. I'm not going to call the tech dead forever though. Might just be a slow burner with a fairly limited niche, or might explode next gen with all TVs coming with 3D as standard and all games supporting.

Oh 3D may not be dead. But nothing has changed significantly in the past 10 years, IMO, to remove the barriers that would prevent mass adoption. Dead forever is certainly a very strong opinion. But if they don't advance beyond Display + Glasses, it's basically not going to get more penetration than Laserdisc did at best, again IMO.

When the display technology finally changes from the same thing we've been using virtually unchanged for the past 10+ years, then I'll change my mind.

Regards,
SB

 

[patsu]

But nothing has changed significantly in the past 10 years, IMO, to remove the barriers that would prevent mass adoption.

The most important change is that the CE, movie, TV and game industries seem to want to work together to establish a baseline 3D experience this time. Lotsa of innovations are happening end-to-end from capture to display and controls. Some industry people actually think that the innovations are significant (e.g., much shorter focal point for 3D movie camera), but much more needs to be done.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The most important change is that the CE, movie, TV and game industries seem to want to work together to establish a baseline 3D experience this time. Lotsa of innovations are happening end-to-end from capture to display and controls.

That's true. There weren't consumer level 3D cameras before, or an upcoming handheld with 3D display and capture. It's definitely a movement now rather than a gimmick, whether it really takes off or not.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

The most important change is that the CE, movie, TV and game industries seem to want to work together to establish a baseline 3D experience this time. Lotsa of innovations are happening end-to-end from capture to display and controls. Some industry people actually think that the innovations are significant (e.g., much shorter focal point for 3D movie camera), but much more needs to be done.

Sure that may allow it to enjoy Laserdisc levels of success, but mass adoption on the level of DVD or VHS will require a significant change in the technology being used to display 3D.

Actually I take that back somewhat. 3D Porn may be able to give it a significant push. But it still won't help it as much as it did with initial DVD and VHS adoption, IMO. And then there's the problem of Porn producers probably not being able to support moving to 3D when their margins are thin, and they rely on low production cost and pumping out as many titles as possible.

Regards,
SB

 

[patsu]

Sure that may allow it to enjoy Laserdisc levels of success

…

3D Porn may be able to give it a significant push.

I don't know if it will be bigger or smaller than LaserDiscs.

As a consumer, I'm just glad that smart people are coming together to work on 3D mobile and home displays, rendering, filming, production, etc. … and along the way, 3D art (!).

3D porn, family media, sports, documentaries, big screen movies, games are all progressing as we speak (Some of us have already seen them). If the companies keep at it, it's very possible that the future won't be limited by 2D displays.

 

[Toaddio]

Sure that may allow it to enjoy Laserdisc levels of success, but mass adoption on the level of DVD or VHS will require a significant change in the technology being used to display 3D.

Maybe it's not 10 years off?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...nt-reveals-plans-for-holographic-display.html