further indication that Xbox 360 has 512 MB

[Carl B]

Little protozoaes whispering sweet nothings to whoever that is isn't exactly an admission of problems fabbing from STI. That's what we call unsubstantiated rumour. From a game site.

LOL, wow you sound pretty self-important. Well, if you have better leads stating that Cell fabbing is going a-ok at 8 SPE's, please, don't hesitate to lay it on me.

That kotaku guy is talking about an IBM fab which has no relation to the PS3, that's enough for me to conclude he has no idea or is simply joking by a hoax he made up (more likely)

I agree with you there - actually that article was not the one I was looking for when I was looking for a 'link.' I thought I read one coming straight from a Sony exec at some point, but whatever the case I can't find it now. :?

But wasn't IBM in fact going to supply the PS3 with soem of it's chips? I really thought that was the case. I know Nagasaki is supposed to be the primary source, but I thought IBM was supplementing. And without any sort of yield indicators out of Nagasaki, it's hard to say whether they are set to do better or worse than IBM at this point. (though I would hope better) 8)

One thing I'm wondering completely on the side now though, is what the yields are like for the XBox tri-core chip.

 

[jvd]

I think the state of ibms fabs are very telling on how sony's fabs will go. After all sony and toshiba are getting this technology from ibm.

 

[one]

I think the state of ibms fabs are very telling on how sony's fabs will go. After all sony and toshiba are getting this technology from ibm.

So you have a source link where it's reported IBM has an yield problem for Cell? The closest thing is the rumor of a year ago about the scarcity of PowerPC 970FX (90nm SOI) at IBM. The kotaku guy might confuse it with Cell.

 

[jvd]

So you have a source link where it's reported IBM has an yield problem for Cell?

WHen did I say that there are problems with the cell chip and IBM manufacturing ?

I only said that i think the state (this can be good or bad) of ibms fabs are very telling in how sony's fabs will go .

IF there are alot of problems over at ibm then sony is going to have the same problems , even if ibm fixes the problems sony will still have to use these fixes and ther ewill be success and failure .

The same goes for if the ibm plants are succeful , if they are then i'm sure sonys will be too

However i doubt we will see any 65nm parts from sony till the end of 06 and the launch ps3s will be 90n,

 

[one]

However i doubt we will see any 65nm parts from sony till the end of 06 and the launch ps3s will be 90n,

Of course I'm talking about the 90nm process. And the 90nm process is not only composed of SOI which IBM leads and transferred to Sony/Toshiba in 2002. Though in the lower clockspeed, the 90nm process itself is more advanced at Sony and Toshiba than IBM as you see in the EE+GS and the PSP chip so your "after all sony and toshiba are getting this technology from ibm" sounds a bit strange to me.

 

[Titanio]

BTW, on a slightly related note, Kotaku's credibility should get a little boost now - it seems they were right on the money with their (now fairly old) article about the X360 design and concept ("ring of light") etc. If you go to MS's E3 RSVP site, the flash movie is called "ring of light" and one of the background jpegs is "rol.jpg". So I guess some of their "sources" at least are legit It's interesting that in the same article they said X360 would have two versions, one with HD, one without, and they reported that again very recently...that could well be likely now aswell.

(not that this means their cell article is correct, but..from what i've heard i'd believe it. but it probably won't have that detrimental an effect)

 

[one]

BTW, on a slightly related note, Kotaku's credibility should get a little boost now - it seems they were right on the money with their (now fairly old) article about the X360 design and concept ("ring of light") etc. If you go to MS's E3 RSVP site, the flash movie is called "ring of light" and one of the background jpegs is "rol.jpg". So I guess some of their "sources" at least are legit It's interesting that in the same article they said X360 would have two versions, one with HD, one without, and they reported that again very recently...that could well be likely now aswell.

So Kotaku is a viral marketer of Microsoft?
BTW, a positive twist which can be applied to his story is that the 8 SPE version of the Cell is actually planned and tested for the PS3.

 

[Cryect]

Though in the lower clockspeed, the 90nm process itself is more advanced at Sony and Toshiba than IBM as you see in the EE+GS and the PSP chip so your "after all sony and toshiba are getting this technology from ibm" sounds a bit strange to me.

What exactly are you basing this on? What exactly is more advanced in the EE+GS and the PSP than the various chips IBM has been fabbing curious? EE+GS and the PSP are running at pretty low clockspeeds last I remember.

 

[BOOMEXPLODE]

As far as gamers are concerned it doesn't really matter if Sony has trouble fabbing Cell anyway. They had trouble fabbing the PS2 chips at first. It's never a case of "if they can't get the manufacturing right we might never see the console!" it's more like "if they can't get the manufacturing right they might not make quite as many hundreds of millions of dollars as they usually do."

 

[one]

Though in the lower clockspeed, the 90nm process itself is more advanced at Sony and Toshiba than IBM as you see in the EE+GS and the PSP chip so your "after all sony and toshiba are getting this technology from ibm" sounds a bit strange to me.

What exactly are you basing this on? What exactly is more advanced in the EE+GS and the PSP than the various chips IBM has been fabbing curious? EE+GS and the PSP are running at pretty low clockspeeds last I remember.

I'm just basing my view about the 90nm process technology in those companies on the absolute amount of the output from the 90nm process lines in Sony/Toshiba, and Toshiba's expertise in this area.

 

[karlotta]

Though in the lower clockspeed, the 90nm process itself is more advanced at Sony and Toshiba than IBM as you see in the EE+GS and the PSP chip so your "after all sony and toshiba are getting this technology from ibm" sounds a bit strange to me.

What exactly are you basing this on? What exactly is more advanced in the EE+GS and the PSP than the various chips IBM has been fabbing curious? EE+GS and the PSP are running at pretty low clockspeeds last I remember.

I'm just basing my view about the 90nm process technology in those companies on the absolute amount of the output from the 90nm process lines in Sony/Toshiba, and Toshiba's expertise in this area.

Apples to Oranges.

 

[one]

Though in the lower clockspeed, the 90nm process itself is more advanced at Sony and Toshiba than IBM as you see in the EE+GS and the PSP chip so your "after all sony and toshiba are getting this technology from ibm" sounds a bit strange to me.

What exactly are you basing this on? What exactly is more advanced in the EE+GS and the PSP than the various chips IBM has been fabbing curious? EE+GS and the PSP are running at pretty low clockspeeds last I remember.

I'm just basing my view about the 90nm process technology in those companies on the absolute amount of the output from the 90nm process lines in Sony/Toshiba, and Toshiba's expertise in this area.

Apples to Oranges.

So my original message has a reservation "Though in the lower clockspeed". Have you read it? What's the reason to write off all the basic technology behind it?

 

[karlotta]

Im not, just that the end products are differnt for each company. and there was a reason Tob,Sony and IBM have Cell together. but to go oftopic more, anybody read the ISSCC 2006, Cell reports.

 

[Carl B]

As far as gamers are concerned it doesn't really matter if Sony has trouble fabbing Cell anyway. They had trouble fabbing the PS2 chips at first. It's never a case of "if they can't get the manufacturing right we might never see the console!" it's more like "if they can't get the manufacturing right they might not make quite as many hundreds of millions of dollars as they usually do."

Gamers don't care, true - and Sony did have initial yield problems with the EE, but that doesn't mean they will automatically go with 8 SPE's and figure it all out later. Meeting initial demand will be important - and you can be sure Microsoft will be putting the pressure on at launch time. Still I myself am hoping for 8 SPE's at 65nm - 50% chance of 6 or 4 SPE's out of possible neccessity though in my mind.

 

[Carl B]

Speaking of the 90 vs 65nm process, and IBM's contributions, I believe that Sony and Toshiba are developing their 65nm tech completely independently from IBM. What IBM is contributing, and to be sure it's no small contribution, is their knowledge on SOI. But Sony and Toshiba have a pretty commanding grasp of process shrinks, and thus their arrogance maybe in thinking they would be the first business to reach that milestone..