function said:
Oh, and if either of these games really was a sim, I suspect almost no-one would enjoy them. The point is to use a number of sim elements to make for a more engrossing game.
I'm reminded of a particularly angry and pointless internet argumnet I witnessed years ago about which was more realistic: Virtua Fighter or Tekken.
I agree that all sims probably run a fine line between being realistic, and making it seem realistic in away of how you'd 'expect' a car to handle and drive, but the result being not necessarely a very accurate one.
...but I also think a very realistic sim would not necessarely be less fun to play. Certainly more demanding, but not necessarely less fun. I think the first time I thought about this was when I played F355 with the clutch and everything in the arcades. It was the first time that I played a game and actually thought "this is how a ferrari feels like to drive" - and it was that immersive.
I guess it depends in the end if you're a casual gamer and not that much into cars in general or really a car-phile that wants the real deal. I'd certainly put myself into the latter group of people and would absolutely adore something even more immersive than GT4. I don't think it's Forza though, given the reasons in what I look for in a sim and where I think its short comings are. IMO, Konami's Enthusia might top GT4, but after seeing some review scores, I'm really not sure anymore. I do know that they put a lot of emphasis on the accurate car behaviour though, which may be why the game isn't received that well? In anycase, it's out here in Europe, so I'll definately give it a try and who knows, I'm not rulling it out at all. So, having said that, I really don't see myself as a hardcore-diehard GT fan - but more just a fan of car sims that accurately simulate the behaviour of the cars and immerse the player into believing that he's there.
In the end, I just find it far more fun, possibly appealing much longer than any arcade game would. The beauty after all is in learning the cars and the tracks.
You're right though, it is indeed pointless - but then again, the whole thread was pointless from the beginning when the heading started to imply something based of some review scores (witout effectively reading into those reviews). Any game that subsitutes gameplay for graphics deserves to get a good deal of critism though - and that's what Forza is getting.