Formula 1 - The Eco Friendly Motorsport!

[tongue_of_colicab]

The plot thickens

FOM, the owner of commercial rights to F1, has made YouTube to remove the original video from Fuji, which showed Hamilton's "soloing" behind the safety car, the clip was 20 secs long. Hamilton is suspected to have caused the accident between Webber & Vettel.
This is the first time (as far as I know) where FOM has asked/forced YouTube to remove a video of F1 race from the site.

Luckily, there's some copies still floating around YouTube, hopefully more to come, but here's one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QJurnfxRm4

In the video, you can see how Webber had to slow down so he wouldn't pass Hamilton, which would have meant a penalty for Webber

That isnt some kind of plot When kubica had the heavy crash they also asked youtube to remove all the kubica crash videos.

Everyone in F1 knows that you can't pass behind safety car, they don't go telling such common knowledge on radio

You think so? Just watch how often they tell the drivers to watch the pit exit lines so they dont cross them.

 

[Kaotik]

Let's ignore the radio thing for a while.

Do you have ANY explanations on why FOM wanted this particular video suddenly removed, but not any of the countless other F1 videos in there?
Could it by any chance be because there has been fuzz going on why Hamilton wasn't penalized, while ANYONE can see from that video that he did break the rules?

And then back to the radio thing..
Sure, that's plausible explanation, just making sure stuff - but if that was the case, why did Heikki publicly wonder about it in an interview, when he has never done such before when team "has made sure the driver knows/remembers/something the rules"?

 

[Kaotik]

That isnt some kind of plot When kubica had the heavy crash they also asked youtube to remove all the kubica crash videos.

How heavy crash? this wasn't heavy at all, and as related, why is it still filled with countless F1 crash videos?

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Let's ignore the radio thing for a while.

Do you have ANY explanations on why FOM wanted this particular video suddenly removed, but not any of the countless other F1 videos in there?
Could it by any chance be because there has been fuzz going on why Hamilton wasn't penalized, while ANYONE can see from that video that he did break the rules?

The video has nothing to do with it. Hamilton was asked and answered several questions about the crash just after the race a long time before anything was posted to Youtube.

Here's what he said:

“Once we had the [second] safety car, I was consistently on to my engineers to tell the Red Bull team to tell Mark [Webber] to just make a little bit more of a gap, as I couldn’t go any faster and I was trying to keep the distance with the pace car.
“And then I’d move over just in case as I couldn’t see Mark and then all of a sudden he would just appear alongside me, so he kept outbraking himself.
“I felt something was going to happen – and I guess my instincts told me right [Webber was hit by Sebastian Vettel].

So it seems that Webber might have been the one that forced the situation by trying to crowd Hamilton up against the safety car. Hamilton drifted wide to get some space and to avoid passing the safety car, Webber suddenly stood on his brakes for fear of accidentally passing Hamilton, and Vettel was looking in the wrong place.

Looks like Webber and Vettel complained about it formally because the rules allow them to. They can't lose out, and maybe can win a protest. IMO, both Vettel and Webber got caught out, and now they want to try and point the finger elsewhere.

And then back to the radio thing..
Sure, that's plausible explanation, just making sure stuff - but if that was the case, why did Heikki publicly wonder about it in an interview, when he has never done such before when team "has made sure the driver knows/remembers/something the rules"?

Because he's getting too big for his boots and thinks he's some big driver that doesn't need the pit team telling him what to do?

 

[Kaotik]

So in your opinion, one should just belive that he's not just trying to cover his own arse, when he was clearly driving against the rules, and going what, barely 20km/h straight when the track had already gone left?

edit: I showed the video to 4 people who don't follow really F1, but know what it is etc - also linked them the rules. One was finnish, 2 were danish, 1 was norwegian. Everyone agreed, that the car followed by camera (Hamilton) wasn't driving by the rules - he ended up too far, slowed down too much and driver erraticly

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

So in your opinion, one should just belive that he's not just trying to cover his own arse, when he was clearly driving against the rules, and going what, barely 20km/h straight when the track had already gone left?

edit: I showed the video to 4 people who don't follow really F1, but know what it is etc - also linked them the rules. One was finnish, 2 were danish, 1 was norwegian. Everyone agreed, that the car followed by camera (Hamilton) wasn't driving by the rules - he ended up too far, slowed down too much and driver erraticly

Yet he wasn't penalised by the stewards at the time, and the complaint only came in several days later. They should have given him a drive through at the time if it was so easy to see.

If two cars behind Hamilton can't keep their distance from each other, who's fault is it, and who comes off worst? All Webber and Vettel had to do is not get too close to the car in front, and both of them failed to do so. When it comes right down to it, all Webber and Vettel had to do was slow down. They were so desperate to get under Hamilton's wing and keep their positions on the restart, they got caught out. Hardly surprising given the conditions and Vettel's inexperience.

 

[Nappe1]

Because he's getting too big for his boots and thinks he's some big driver that doesn't need the pit team telling him what to do?

yep, all finnish motor sport drivers / riders are known to be too big for their boots.

like...
hmmh...
J.J. Lehto? He's the only one that I can recal overshoting his comments during his F1 career. (after that he has won Le Mans 24 Hours twice, but that's completely different thing.)

 

[Kaotik]

yep, all finnish motor sport drivers / riders are known to be too big for their boots.

like...
hmmh...
J.J. Lehto? He's the only one that I can recal overshoting his comments during his F1 career. (after that he has won Le Mans 24 Hours twice, but that's completely different thing.)

Maybe Mika Salo?

Yet he wasn't penalised by the stewards at the time, and the complaint only came in several days later. They should have given him a drive through at the time if it was so easy to see.

If two cars behind Hamilton can't keep their distance from each other, who's fault is it, and who comes off worst? All Webber and Vettel had to do is not get too close to the car in front, and both of them failed to do so. When it comes right down to it, all Webber and Vettel had to do was slow down. They were so desperate to get under Hamilton's wing and keep their positions on the restart, they got caught out. Hardly surprising given the conditions and Vettel's inexperience.

Yeah, they couldn't keep within 5 car lengths without crashing when the driver in front goes without any warnings, against the rules, driving straight when the track turns left, and almost goes to full stop. Clearly only the people driving behind to blame

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Yeah, they couldn't keep within 5 car lengths without crashing when the driver in front goes without any warnings, against the rules, driving straight when the track turns left, and almost goes to full stop. Clearly only the people driving behind to blame

Apparently so. Who ran into each other, and who lost out? I'm sure the Red Bull and Torro Rosso will be patting Vettel and Webber on the back and saying "there, there, it's not your fault, it's all the fault of that nasty Lewis Hamilton".

You can see Hamilton come up close to the safety car, it doesn't take a genius to know he's going to slow down rather than pass it. Yet Webber and Vettel decided that would be a good time to get right under Hamilton's wing. Hamilton drifts out because he can't see what is under his rear wing, and Vettel hits Webber.

 

[Kaotik]

According to spanish AS and finnish MTV3 (big TV-channel, also the one showing F1's here) at least report that the order for Heikki to "stay away from Hamilton" came from the race control, they said "it's for the safety", but the reports say that the feeling that FIA is just trying to ensure Hamiltons championship is spreading wider and wider

 

[pocketmoon66]

Hamilton was asked and answered several questions about the crash just after the race a long time before anything was posted to Youtube.

Hamilton's response just after the race makes this an open and shut case. Vettel was too close to Webber and Webber was too close to Hamilton. He drove wide, but close to the safety car. He couldn't go any faster and it was hardly an erratic maneuver.

Vettel 100% at fault and the fabled footage of the incident shows a startlingly banal accident.

Rob

 

[Kaotik]

Hamilton's response just after the race makes this an open and shut case. Vettel was too close to Webber and Webber was too close to Hamilton. He drove wide, but close to the safety car. He couldn't go any faster and it was hardly an erratic maneuver.

Vettel 100% at fault and the fabled footage of the incident shows a startlingly banal accident.

Rob

If he "couldn't go faster" why distance to safety car went way beyond the 5 car lengths stated in rules?

 

[Dave Baumann]

According to spanish AS and finnish MTV3 (big TV-channel, also the one showing F1's here) at least report that the order for Heikki to "stay away from Hamilton" came from the race control, they said "it's for the safety", but the reports say that the feeling that FIA is just trying to ensure Hamiltons championship is spreading wider and wider

Its hardly shocking that Finnish and Spanish papers would have that "feeling". But likewise there "feelings" that punishing Hamilton now would just be meddling in the championship.

 

[dizietsma]

Hamilton's response just after the race makes this an open and shut case. Vettel was too close to Webber and Webber was too close to Hamilton. He drove wide, but close to the safety car. He couldn't go any faster and it was hardly an erratic maneuver.

Vettel 100% at fault and the fabled footage of the incident shows a startlingly banal accident.

Rob

I agree with this summation completely. It's good to know that F1 drivers also "rubberneck" something happening on another lane/carriageway and then drive into the back of the car in front, just like you see sometimes on our own motorways.

Really it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. Hamilton was doing the slowing up and down routine to destroy the rhythm of the other drivers and give himself bst chance at the restart and Webber was very close and putting "pressure" on Hamilton to show he was there. Webber is a pretty aggressive driver (not an insult by the way) and would know his one big chance would be at the restart. I think both drivers were trying to get an advantage and nothing would have been said if it was not for Vettels learning experience.

On the subject of Vettel, his apologetic comments on this incident bring a welcome relief from the bravado and moaning that we have heard recently. It will check his ego somewhat which can only be good for him in the long run. I hope he does well in F1, but if he does he will always remember this incidence in the future, maybe when a rookie in future years blocks him or whatever.

The Vettel crash has now gone past 600 pages on the autosport.com forum. Our little thread here has been far more precise in summing up both sides .. coz we are brill.

I'm watching the live timing feed from China at the moment, looking really close at the top .. could be a cracking race on Sunday.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Really it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. Hamilton was doing the slowing up and down routine to destroy the rhythm of the other drivers and give himself bst chance at the restart and Webber was very close and putting "pressure" on Hamilton to show he was there.

I don't think this little episode was in readiment for the restart - I think it was a combination of Hamilton getting caught out by the line and speed the safety car round that particular corner, then him slamming on the brakes so as not to overtake him. He may have been warming his brakes at the same time:

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40921

However after winning at Fuji, Hamilton said it had been necessary to brake sharply because of the braking material McLaren had been using – and suggested it was Webber whose driving had been erratic.

"We just needed to keep the heat in the brakes," he said.

"I was running quite a hard compound of brakes, so if I did light braking, I would have glazed the brakes.

"So I was making sure there was a little bit of a gap, maximising the gap that you're allowed and [using] it to my benefit.

"It was tough because Mark behind me was just too close, and all of a sudden he braked really hard and I don't know what happened – someone ran into him.

"I was constantly on the radio to my engineers to tell the Red Bull team to get Mark to make a little more of a gap because I couldn't go any faster because the pace car was in front of me.

"So I was trying to keep the distance with him and then I'd move over because I couldn't see Mark and then he'd just appear alongside me, so he kept outbraking himself.

"I felt something was going to happen, and I guess my instincts told me right."

Anyone watching the quali the day before would have heard the team over the radio warning him about "glazing" the brakes once he'd got pole.

 

[dizietsma]

Yes, your summation is probably right Dave.

Fridays times are very close at the front, looks like an interesting race perhaps for Sunday. If Alonso and Hamilton are on the front row it could be very interesting in the first few corners, especially considering the first very long right hander.

Looks like I will be crawling out of bed bleary eyed to watch it live for the second weekend in a row.

 

[chavvdarrr]

1 detail tho - HK was asked to stay away from Hamilton, because Charlie Whitening asked the team for that.
Is that normal too?

 

[chavvdarrr]

No penalty for Hamilton over Japanese Grand Prix

too bad there was no way to bet on that decision.

 

[Dave Baumann]

1 detail tho - HK was asked to stay away from Hamilton, because Charlie Whitening asked the team for that.
Is that normal too?

God knows how many publications I read on Formula 1, but yet oddly I've seen none of them report this.

However if that were the case, Hamilton, above, stated that he was screaming over the radio for Mark to give him some room because of his brake situation. Race control can hear those radio messages and, following the Webber-Vettel incident, they could have decided to warn HK based on Hamilton's own pleading over Webber.

Anyway, there's no punishment levied for Hamilton.

 

[DJ12]

You need to look at Alonso-fanboy.com

Not surprising Hamilton was cleared considering the stuff in your other post Dave.

If Red Bull were informed of what Hamilton said, then there really isn't a case to answer.