Final Fantasy XVI (FF16) [PS5]

[Seanspeed]

Looking real nice. I can't wait to see what the story is like

I appreciate yoshida explaining the PC situation. It was the same with FF15, in that tabata explained the port could not be half assed in terms of optimization or else it would reflect badly on him as director of the project. These versions are not things farmed out to outside contractors but something the core team works on

It's still a lame copout excuse. The real answer is "Sony has paid us a ton of money to ensure we focus on the PS5 version exclusively, so we haven't even begun to start on the PC version". And yes, we know a game of this magnitude isn't gonna get ported in six months, so they're basically being forced to delay any sort of PC release for longer, all because of Sony's big check. Still a very lousy situation.

That said, I'm willing to be a lot more patient with this one. My early excitement has diminished heavily by now. I really thought this would only be an action game in appearance while still heavily being an RPG underneath, but it really seems like this simply is a solo character action game with RPG elements. Basically holds nothing but a surface level relation to the Final Fantasy series. Very sad to see the series is basically dead and we're never, ever gonna get a classic, single player Final Fantasy RPG again.
Between this and the super annoying bought exclusivity by Sony, I'm fine waiting for this to be like $15 before I play it in like 3-4 years.

 

[Seanspeed]

All perfectly valid reasons to enter exclusivity agreements. If the team can only handle mostly focusing on one platform at a time, then it absolutely makes 100% sense for them to make a deal with the platform which typically gives them the best sales potential, with the added benefit of working directly with them for technical support. I've got no qualms with that.

This isn't some small indie studio. I feel y'all are being quite naive here. Plenty of other studios can handle multiplatform development, but we're supposed to believe one of Square's largest and best AAA studios cant?

And if this was such an obvious move for them, why was there any need for a big check from Sony in the first place? Sony could have gotten this all for free if it made sense for Square to only focus on PS5, right? Again, come on folks.

 

[Nesh]

This isn't some small indie studio. I feel y'all are being quite naive here. Plenty of other studios can handle multiplatform development, but we're supposed to believe one of Square's largest and best AAA studios cant?

And if this was such an obvious move for them, why was there any need for a big check from Sony in the first place? Sony could have gotten this all for free if it made sense for Square to only focus on PS5, right? Again, come on folks.

Assistance from Sony is a consequence of making an exclusive deal. For Square thats a big plus on top of the direct monetary benefit. I see nothing peculiar. By the time they are working exclusively on one platform there is full focus on the platform to get the most of it. And Sony is willing to give full of that assistace because of the deal.

They could have gone the multiplatform route like other studios but likely the game could have taken more time and we dont know if thst would have taken away from good design choices that result from less effort put on technical issues

 

[BRiT]

This isn't some small indie studio. I feel y'all are being quite naive here. Plenty of other studios can handle multiplatform development, but we're supposed to believe one of Square's largest and best AAA studios cant?

Nitpick: They sold their best AAA studios to Embracer.

 

[chris1515]

For sure Forspoken show they are a great multiplatform publisher. The japanese studios of Square-Enix aren't technical powerhouse since PS3.

 

[Seanspeed]

Assistance from Sony is a consequence of making an exclusive deal. For Square thats a big plus on top of the direct monetary benefit. I see nothing peculiar. By the time they are working exclusively on one platform there is full focus on the platform to get the most of it. And Sony is willing to give full of that assistace because of the deal.

They could have gone the multiplatform route like other studios but likely the game could have taken more time and we dont know if thst would have taken away from good design choices that result from less effort put on technical issues

If Square told Sony that they were going to be targeting PS5 exclusively for their release based on these same reasonings, Sony would have been ALL too happy to exploit that and provide all the same assistance they are now. They could still market it heavily as a 3rd party exclusive, cuz it would be. Sony wouldn't have had to spend an extra penny beyond the personnel resources they are already spending.

Seriously now. It's wild how much people are willing to forgive Sony's 'bought exclusivity' practices when lame justifications like this get rolled out.

EDIT: Forspoken was even greatly delayed, ffs. It didn't matter. That game's issues had nothing to do with it being multiplatform and it's frankly embarrassing to see people on this forum of all places trying to suggest it was. smh

 

[chris1515]

If Square told Sony that they were going to be targeting PS5 exclusively for their release based on these same reasonings, Sony would have been ALL too happy to exploit that and provide all the same assistance they are now. They could still market it heavily as a 3rd party exclusive, cuz it would be. Sony wouldn't have had to spend an extra penny beyond the personnel resources they are already spending.

Seriously now. It's wild how much people are willing to forgive Sony's 'bought exclusivity' practices when lame justifications like this get rolled out.

EDIT: Forspoken was even greatly delayed, ffs. It didn't matter. That game's issues had nothing to do with it being multiplatform and it's frankly embarrassing to see people on this forum of all places trying to suggest it was. smh

No one told Sony don't give money. They can give upfront money for Square-Enix and/or reduce royalties on sales of the game. Sony is doing most of the game marketing and help to make the game great on PS5.

I am sure of one thing without Sony* assistance, the game won't look as good as it is now. Since PS3/360, japanese games of Square-Enix aren't graphical benchmark.

*It could be MS if it was another platform holder.

 

[Dr. Nick]

No one told Sony don't give money. They can give upfront money for Square-Enix and/or reduce royalties on sales of the game. Sony is doing most of the game marketing and help to make the game great on PS5.

I am sure of one thing without Sony* assistance, the game won't look as good as it is now. Since PS3/360, japanese games of Square-Enix aren't graphical benchmark.

*It could be MS if it was another platform holder.

You did not consider Final Fantasy 15 or Final Fantasy 7 Remake a graphical benchmark? I would agree that the early showing of this game were rough and looked like it straddled the line of being 360/PS4. Looks much better now.

 

[Nesh]

If Square told Sony that they were going to be targeting PS5 exclusively for their release based on these same reasonings, Sony would have been ALL too happy to exploit that and provide all the same assistance they are now. They could still market it heavily as a 3rd party exclusive, cuz it would be. Sony wouldn't have had to spend an extra penny beyond the personnel resources they are already spending.

Seriously now. It's wild how much people are willing to forgive Sony's 'bought exclusivity' practices when lame justifications like this get rolled out.

EDIT: Forspoken was even greatly delayed, ffs. It didn't matter. That game's issues had nothing to do with it being multiplatform and it's frankly embarrassing to see people on this forum of all places trying to suggest it was. smh

We dont know details for Forespoken. The thing seemed to have been in development hell from the beginning and the Luminus Engine is probably not a great engine. The came might have done commercially even worse if it wasnt for Sony as it was very much promoted.

The developer admitted that Sony made a timed exclusivity deal for their own incentives but comes with the benefit of Sony wanting to push a flagship franchise the fullest and thus providing marketing and developmemt assistance. And you dont really know the details of the deal. There is nothing peculiar in that. The game is based on UE4, unlike Forespoken, where Sony has a lot more knowledge, compared to the in house Square Enix Luminus engine.
We know that Sony has huge ability to provide technical assistance using their own or for commercially available engines. Examples are Decima Engine for Death Stranding and UE4 for Callisto Protocol. Both games received technical support from Sony.

Suggesting SE could have decided to make it PS5 exclusive hoping to automatically receive the same support is a stretch. Sony apparently has to believe in it and show that interest first. And it is likely that if SE were the first to make that decision, they would have approached Sony to make that deal and they made it in the form of support, marketing and probably compensations for appearing only on one platform

The interview doesnt go to the specifics of the deal. They made a mutual agreement and you are complaining about the details you dont know

 

[Seanspeed]

We dont know details for Forespoken. The thing seemed to have been in development hell from the beginning and the Luminus Engine is probably not a great engine. The came might have done commercially even worse if it wasnt for Sony as it was very much promoted.

The developer admitted that Sony made a timed exclusivity deal for their own incentives but comes with the benefit of Sony wanting to push a flagship franchise the fullest and thus providing marketing and developmemt assistance. And you dont really know the details of the deal. There is nothing peculiar in that. The game is based on UE4, unlike Forespoken, where Sony has a lot more knowledge, compared to the in house Square Enix Luminus engine.
We know that Sony has huge ability to provide technical assistance using their own or for commercially available engines. Examples are Decima Engine for Death Stranding and UE4 for Callisto Protocol. Both games received technical support from Sony.

Suggesting SE could have decided to make it PS5 exclusive hoping to automatically receive the same support is a stretch. Sony apparently has to believe in it and show that interest first. And it is likely that if SE were the first to make that decision, they would have approached Sony to make that deal and they made it in the form of support, marketing and probably compensations for appearing only on one platform

The interview doesnt go to the specifics of the deal. They made a mutual agreement and you are complaining about the details you dont know

No, y'all are just buying into obvious PR justifications for why they took the money and made their game a timed exclusive, trying to act like it wasn't just cuz it was a giant amount of money they didn't want to refuse.

Again, y'all are ignoring that if what Square is saying is true, they would have made PS5 a priority and defacto exclusive without any check from Sony at all. And in that situation, Sony would have been all too happy to provide this same assistance and marketing, even moreso cuz they didn't need to spend a giant check for exclusivity on top of all that.

This is just wild reading how most all of you seem to genuinely just eat this obvious corporate PR up. Acting like Square is some small indie studio that just cant handle multiplatform development. lol

 

[Seanspeed]

No one told Sony don't give money.

The point is that Sony wouldn't have had to if they were gonna get priority anyways cuz it was just 'what was best for the game' as Square is trying to sell it.

There is no rule that Square or any 3rd party developer/publisher has to make their games multiplatform. They can all choose to prioritize or exclude certain platforms all on their own, without any money being exchanged at all. Yet Sony still felt it necessary to write a huge check for bought exclusivity anyways.

I cant tell whether y'all are being genuinely naive or just pretend naive.

 

[chris1515]

The point is that Sony wouldn't have had to if they were gonna get priority anyways cuz it was just 'what was best for the game' as Square is trying to sell it.

There is no rule that Square or any 3rd party developer/publisher has to make their games multiplatform. They can all choose to prioritize or exclude certain platforms all on their own, without any money being exchanged at all. Yet Sony still felt it necessary to write a huge check for bought exclusivity anyways.

I cant tell whether y'all are being genuinely naive or just pretend naive.

Pretend to be naive, I said the fact Sony gives money is the main reason of the exclusivity. It doesn't mean there are no other advantages for Square Enix. Naoki Yoshida said Sony want to sell more hardware with the exclusivity and Sony give them other advantage from a marketing and development point of view. Another fact too, marketing of Sony is reaching more people than Square Enix and Sony first party games sold better than FF.

I am sure of one thing without the help for development, the game won't look so good because of since PS3 FF aren't graphical benchmark at all like many japanese games. This is again a fact.

And I doubt Sony give money to Square for FF Pixel Remaster last year and they don't release the games on Xbox but this is not FF 16 level and Square Enix estimate the ROI is so low on Xbox they prefer release it on other platform.

Another reason of Square-Enix bypassing Xbox is the lower sales of other FF on the platform. At least on PC the ROI is interesting for them.

Microsoft must think why out of exclusive big games, Square Enix don't release games on Xbox consoles,

 

[Inuhanyou]

It's still a lame copout excuse. The real answer is "Sony has paid us a ton of money to ensure we focus on the PS5 version exclusively, so we haven't even begun to start on the PC version".

I would think that goes without saying? No one said anything about paid agreements not being the reason for this, that's how all third party exclusives work. Yoshida is just explaining the details of how it helps them make the product better in a vacuum.

I get some people are salty about exclusives but hey, it's just business, as they say. It's nothing new for any publisher in this industry, as people keep telling me

 

[Inuhanyou]

For sure Forspoken show they are a great multiplatform publisher. The japanese studios of Square-Enix aren't technical powerhouse since PS3.

Why only focus on one studio out of many to make a dumb point? Luminous studio was never a good idea for a variety of reasons, but can't let slander of other teams stand when they are always attempting to push the bar, even in cases where it doesn't make sense and actively hurts the resulting products

 

[chris1515]

Why only focus on one studio out of many to make a dumb point? Luminous studio was never a good idea for a variety of reasons, but can't let slander of other teams stand when they are always attempting to push the bar, even in cases where it doesn't make sense and actively hurts the resulting products

This is not a dumb point this is the reality since PS3 Square-Enix but not only them many japanese teams weren't reference from a visual point of view. And they aren't the most efficient with commercial game engine, this is the reason they have problem with game development.

Game Engines and the Japanese Video Game Industry | TalentHub Blog | Live and work in Japan

Japan has a long tradition of handcrafted games. Although this has been changing and evolving through the years as developers finally come to terms with the mainstream way of creating games. Making games is not only creating a piece of software; it involves much more than that. Therefore, the...

talenthub.jp

Old habits die hard, so even though most companies do use commercial engines, Japanese developers still refuse to embrace the tools the way they come out of the box. So as a Tool Programmer you will have to re-implement or at least extend most of the pre-made elements.

On a daily basis you will have to go deep into the engine source code and from there build new tools and extensions. Even though extending the engine is possible, they’re usually not made for that, so you will have to hack your way around with close to no documentation. Soon enough you’ll become somewhat of an archaeologist, looking through the darkest corners of game development blogs and undocumented source codes in order to take apart the pre-made elements and build your way up to create new tools.

Very funny this it the reason Kojima Productions did not use Unreal Engine, they wanted engine where they can rework the tools easily.

 

[chris1515]

You did not consider Final Fantasy 15 or Final Fantasy 7 Remake a graphical benchmark? I would agree that the early showing of this game were rough and looked like it straddled the line of being 360/PS4. Looks much better now.

I don't consider FF15 as a benchmark. FF7 remake looks good but this is UE 4. Here FF16 looks good and this is a custom engine of Square Enix and evolution of the FF14 engine.

Square Enix artist are good and art direction is good too but I think from a technical point of view western team are stronger.

EDIT:

Kojima: Japanese developers lack global outlook, technological skills

The Japanese games industry needs to start making titles that appeal to a global audience rather than just focussing on…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Nesh]

No, y'all are just buying into obvious PR justifications for why they took the money and made their game a timed exclusive, trying to act like it wasn't just cuz it was a giant amount of money they didn't want to refuse.

Again, y'all are ignoring that if what Square is saying is true, they would have made PS5 a priority and defacto exclusive without any check from Sony at all. And in that situation, Sony would have been all too happy to provide this same assistance and marketing, even moreso cuz they didn't need to spend a giant check for exclusivity on top of all that.

This is just wild reading how most all of you seem to genuinely just eat this obvious corporate PR up. Acting like Square is some small indie studio that just cant handle multiplatform development. lol

Yesh they gave them money to push the PS5. And because of it, SE have the natural opportunity to optimize on one hardware without worrying about other hardware, and Sony as a serious business has every reason to provide technical support and promote it, to get the most out of the investment.

I dont think there is much to argue

 

[Nesh]

I don't consider FF15 as a benchmark. FF7 remake looks good but this is UE 4. Here FF16 looks good and this is a custom engine of Square Enix and evolution of the FF14 engine.

Square Enix artist are good and art direction is good too but I think from a technical point of view western team are stronger.

EDIT:

Kojima: Japanese developers lack global outlook, technological skills

The Japanese games industry needs to start making titles that appeal to a global audience rather than just focussing on…

www.eurogamer.net

I think FF16 is UE4

 

[chris1515]

I am probably harsh with FF15, I was unimpressed with the first presentation. And I did not follow the game a lot after this. I never played the final game because I wasn't interested by any FF after FF12. FF16 is probably the first time I will go back to a FF.

 

[chris1515]

I think FF16 is UE4

FF 16 is not UE4, this is a custom Square-Enix engine.

EDIT:
I watched some video of FF15 on PS4 and PC and it looks good. At least for this game they were able to release something good from a technological point of view too.