Feedback wanted on game project [PC Web] *self promotion

[Shifty Geezer]

Hi B3Ders,

I'm struggling with a game and need fresh eyes, which I haven't been able to get anywhere else so I thought I'd try here.

Would love to know if this ropey WIP game playable in browser has a future:

https://software-geezers.itch.io/project-preview?secret=El6dxKRkmP86zaJV56UbqSZSY2U

It's a Survivors like created for mobile and PC but with more depth in that you have two loadouts and need to swap between them. I've spent a year creating systems and interfaces but I'm all out of energy and need to know if it's any good or not; if the mechanics make for a different and engaging experience to all the other Survivors out there.

This preview is about 6 minutes and doesn't have an ending. I've no idea what game balance is like for new players. Sorry if it's too punishing! Controls are keyboard.

WASD/Cursors - move
Shift - swap weapons
Ctrl - open menu/pause/abilities
1 + 2 - direct skill activation

Spent the last two days optimising for PC controllers only for the Web build to fail and leave me stressing today to get KB working well enough. You can also use the mouse like a touch screen although the prompts are absent.

Future would see:

• Procedural waves so run-throughs are more varied
• More enemy types such as fliers needing specific weapons
• Enemies with skills like shooting
• Different level-up system to current VS type three-choices
• Bosses - (already one in game but I never got around to adding it this build!)
• Cross progression across devices

Apologies for any bugs. Many thanks for any plays and feedback, and have a good 2024!

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Hi B3Ders,

I'm struggling with a game and need fresh eyes, which I haven't been able to get anywhere else so I thought I'd try here.

Would love to know if this ropey WIP game playable in browser has a future:

https://software-geezers.itch.io/project-preview?secret=El6dxKRkmP86zaJV56UbqSZSY2U

It's a Survivors like created for mobile and PC but with more depth in that you have two loadouts and need to swap between them. I've spent a year creating systems and interfaces but I'm all out of energy and need to know if it's any good or not; if the mechanics make for a different and engaging experience to all the other Survivors out there.

This preview is about 6 minutes and doesn't have an ending. I've no idea what game balance is like for new players. Sorry if it's too punishing! Controls are keyboard.

WASD/Cursors - move
Shift - swap weapons
Ctrl - open menu/pause/abilities
1 + 2 - direct skill activation

Spent the last two days optimising for PC controllers only for the Web build to fail and leave me stressing today to get KB working well enough. You can also use the mouse like a touch screen although the prompts are absent.

Future would see:

• Procedural waves so run-throughs are more varied
• More enemy types such as fliers needing specific weapons
• Enemies with skills like shooting
• Different level-up system to current VS type three-choices
• Bosses - (already one in game but I never got around to adding it this build!)
• Cross progression across devices

Apologies for any bugs. Many thanks for any plays and feedback, and have a good 2024!

Looks interesting, I'll take a look when I get time (if I get time), looks interesting and I love "survivors" type games. Just finished 100%-ing another one.

Just a quick question without playing it yet, is there or will there be some form of meta-progression?

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Just a quick question without playing it yet, is there or will there be some form of meta-progression?

Not in this tiny preview but in the intended final version (it's just a 6 minute playtest). TBH I've had a trillion ideas and settling on one really needs feedback. An active playerbase is necessary! Keen on the idea of collectible 'cards' for progression so you'd win/collect/acquire new skills/skill-traits. this would then carry to cross progression shared across devices.

Originally I had full deck-building where you'd choose your skills, but I decided that's probably too complicated as there's potentially so many - 64+ cards to manage. Currently each skill has a skill progression which breaks it down to per skill, so you can optimise a skill to what you want it to be - maybe focus on knockdown or damage or slow. Also thinking of replacing the "three random options" with a 'skill tree', a grid of all 'cards', so when you level up you can select from a route. This would allow you to plan which skills to prioritise. Let's say you've unlocked an S-Tier upgrade for your blaster - +5 shots maybe - you'd see that card in the grid and could decide which route to take when you level up to unlock it.

In short, I appreciate the casualness of VS and clones and the mindless engagement, but I want something with more depth. Also I hate the 'can't see anything' visual effects soup and have a visual design that hopefully maintains full information. However, I run the risk of breaking the formula. I realise my own personal tastes are far too different from most! I need to understand the audience and give them what they want, where the market feels kinda saturated so I'm not sure. Maybe mindless and a screen full of special effects is the formula that works??

 

[Theeoo]

The video you showed looks similar-ish in style to the latest free game on EGS btw.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's a booming (oversaturated?) genre headed by Vampire Survivors. It's like DOOM in spawning many, many clones. To date, they've all largely ripped VS's formula and are very similar. I'm wanting to inject a little depth into the concept.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Just added controller support which hopefully works with most browser/controller combos, and full screen should work now too.

 

[Potato Head]

As someone who has 100%’ed Vampire Survivors on both PC and Mobile…

The idea of splitting your loadout in half is REALLY inspired and adds more depth to considering your builds, what with the fact that you’re basically constructing two builds simultaneously that need to cover for the other’s weaknesses. I think that this project is absolutely worth following up on so long as it’s financially feasible.

Right now the two biggest problems I have with the game are that the base speed for your character is too slow — even accounting for the fact that your un-upgraded speed stat is supposed to be slow — and that there’s not enough audiovisual feedback when you’re taking damage. The fact that these can both be easily tweaked with less than one day’s work speaks volumes about how solid everything else seems to be at this stage.

 

[Potato Head]

The above came from my son.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The above came from my son.

Cool! Much thanks. I haven't had much play but people have been bouncing off the weapon swap and not understanding. I've improved my onboarding a bit but I'm super struggling with game balance. I play the same content over and over and over and it basically becomes a blur!

 

[iroboto]

As someone who has 100%’ed Vampire Survivors on both PC and Mobile…

The idea of splitting your loadout in half is REALLY inspired and adds more depth to considering your builds, what with the fact that you’re basically constructing two builds simultaneously that need to cover for the other’s weaknesses. I think that this project is absolutely worth following up on so long as it’s financially feasible.

Right now the two biggest problems I have with the game are that the base speed for your character is too slow — even accounting for the fact that your un-upgraded speed stat is supposed to be slow — and that there’s not enough audiovisual feedback when you’re taking damage. The fact that these can both be easily tweaked with less than one day’s work speaks volumes about how solid everything else seems to be at this stage.

How old is your son ? This is legitimately useful feedback.

 

[Shred VII]

The above came from my son.

Hey y'all, I'm Potato Head's son. He convinced me to join up here so I could reply to Shifty directly.

How old is your son ? This is legitimately useful feedback.

I'm the paranoid type who prefers to not discuss personal details at length, so I will give you a ballpark age range by saying that I have my bachelor's degree and leave it at that.

Cool! Much thanks. I haven't had much play but people have been bouncing off the weapon swap and not understanding. I've improved my onboarding a bit but I'm super struggling with game balance. I play the same content over and over and over and it basically becomes a blur!

As far as onboarding goes, I'd reckon the fact that Vampire Survivors and its brethren just straight-up tell the player exactly what each upgrade does in plain, unambiguous text has set people up to expect the same from every entry in the genre. Mind you, the iconography that's already in the game is strong — I was able to immediately understand the upgrade that increased my projectile count after my very first level-up, for example — but unless my computer's inexplicably hostile relationship with Unity engine games is causing obvious tutorial text to simply not appear on my screen, there's nothing in the game itself that explicitly tells the player that they're supposed to be building two kits that cover for each other's weaknesses instead of one do-it-all kit. Priming players to start thinking in terms of synchronicity ahead of time might be able to preclude at least some feelings of alienation stemming from the disconnect between preconceived notions of how the genre works and the more tactical decision-making angle your game is going for.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Hey y'all, I'm Potato Head's son. He convinced me to join up here so I could reply to Shifty directly.

Hello!

Mind you, the iconography that's already in the game is strong —

Thanks! I'm trying to make it language agnostic. That does requires people to think a bit though.

I was able to immediately understand the upgrade that increased my projectile count after my very first level-up, for example — but unless my computer's inexplicably hostile relationship with Unity engine games is causing obvious tutorial text to simply not appear on my screen, there's nothing in the game itself that explicitly tells the player that they're supposed to be building two kits that cover for each other's weaknesses instead of one do-it-all kit.

I'll roll out another version if your interested. This project is on the very slow burner now but as an exercise I'd like to see if the new visual language conveys the game effectively.

Edit: I'd actually already released it! If you can spare 30-60 seconds, I'd like to know if that clarifies the dual-build system? I see my "swap weapons" prompt isn't enough though - I didn't even notice it myself!

 

[Shred VII]

I'll roll out another version if your interested. This project is on the very slow burner now but as an exercise I'd like to see if the new visual language conveys the game effectively.

Edit: I'd actually already released it! If you can spare 30-60 seconds, I'd like to know if that clarifies the dual-build system? I see my "swap weapons" prompt isn't enough though - I didn't even notice it myself!

I made my way back to the itch.io page using the link in the original post — as far as I can tell, the version of the game available there is identical to the version I played last week, even after hard-refreshing the page. I'm pretty sure this is due to some goofiness on itch.io's part.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Nah, sorry. I thought it was slightly older but it's the current version.

The only change I was bringing about was on the Swap prompts, to show to swap between Yellow and Grey, and forcing the player's initial skill choices which might still be in. You are locked into blaster and aura. The first wave is just grunts, then there'll be the fast yellow swarm and I prompt the player to swap to aura. Then maybe a couple of bugs where the blaster is required.

Maybe a plain language descriptor up front is the simplest solution?

 

[Shred VII]

Maybe a plain language descriptor up front is the simplest solution?

Sometimes the simple solution is the best solution. In this instance, there's unlikely to be a cleaner and more elegant solution than just outright saying — for all intents and purposes — that the player is building two characters simultaneously.

 

[orangpelupa]

why when i pressed the right CTRL, it keeps showing this tutorial pop up? and what am i supposed to do to follow the tutorial pop up?

1 2 pressed and nothing happend

and im now stuck on this screen

 

[Shifty Geezer]

why when i pressed the right CTRL, it keeps showing this tutorial pop up? and what am i supposed to do to follow the tutorial pop up?

1 2 pressed and nothing happend

That's your Ability panel. You can activate those skills but you're out of energy. Needs feedback for No Energy. The tutorial should proceed from just opening that screen. It would be better to move that out from the tutorial and have that screen in game after the bugs appear.

and im now stuck on this screen

Looks like the Ability screen messed up the UI from the red error text. You should be able to click the weapon under the cursor.

 

[milk]

I tried the demo, but I think it bugged out on my computer. No enemies ever apeared, and I was presented with a never ending menu-after-menu that I could not understand.

As for communicating to the player, the most direct non-verbal way of communicating that idea is by representing it as 2 different character tag-teaming. Its a good visual metaphor.

As for style of game in general: I always get bored of the uninteresting enemy/playfield dynamics many of these games create (not all). They often all just slowly hone in towards the player. If I could suggest a good way to differentiate yourself from that crowd, is create behaviors that break things apart more. Examples:

Enemies thar spiral towards the player instead of moving in a straight line.

Enemies thar stop to "recharge" every so often.

Bull-like enemies that charge but over-shoot if they miss (maybe knocking other enemies in their path into other directions as well

Enemy classes that move in clusters that disperse under some conditions and regroup under others. Flocking movement patterns.

Dynamic level geometry, including solid barriers, slippery puddles, or tar pits that slow entities down.

Magnet grenade weapons.

Bouncy stunned enemies or koopa-shell items that bounce around the level unpredictably and causing hit objects to also bounce onto others causing a domino effect.

I don't know. Just spit-balling.

 

[Cyan]

also tried it 'cos it is a Shifty's game, with a very average wireless mouse -I dont have my gaming mouse (to map most of the keyboard inputs) connected as of now- and wanted to try with the gamepad but it didn't work.

Other than that, I still don't understand the game, but I tried for a brief time and I don't know much about rogue-like games, if that's the genre.

First impression..., I found it a bit slow.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah, a lot of that is on the cards. eg. Creating your own barriers as skills. The only plan playfields are tedious. I do have different moving enemies.

There seems to be a bug in the UI hampering progression. Ugh.